TOPIC: How is this fair?

How is this fair? 1 week 5 days ago #86473

For the last 4 yrs I've lived alone with two children, my ex had one of our children, in them 4 years I've never had or asked for a single penny. I've gone without and sometimes been on the absolute bones of my backside whilst he went on luxury holidays with one of our children.
In June one child left me to live with him. He then threatened to take me to the CMS, guess with two he thought he had the advantage. So I opened a claim also to try and recoup what I could. I don't earn a great deal. I live hand to mouth.
Today I received a letter telling me what to pay, I can probably afford it and get by, just. I also received what he pays me, when I calculate the two, I owe him something ridiculous like £2.21.
However, this is the unfair part, he's requested direct pay, im employed. So I get mine deducted from my wage and have to wait for him to pay his, he's self employed so they can't deduct from his wage. How does that work out? How is that fair?
Has anyone had experience of the CMS deducting from their bank being self employed?
I'm not saying I don't want to pay for my children, by all means, what I'm asking is just how is it fair? There's no way he will pay me for the one child I have.
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How is this fair? 1 week 5 days ago #86477

Why is it being deducted from your pay? Direct pay is where you pay him directly, not deducted from pay, as far as I am aware.

It is ridiculous that he can get away with this for so long - the only encouragement I can give is that with one child living with you instead of two, your bills should go down a fair bit more than the £2.21 you will be paying him, so he will be worse off financially.
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How is this fair? 1 week 5 days ago #86478

Not direct pay, collect pay is it?
Ha, you're right about the bills yes!! Definitely.
I just don't understand how they can't do anything else for me? It's not right at all.
I'm considering taking it up with my local MP or even appealing on the basis that it's just ridiculous.

There's always the option of not paying at all, and when he doesn't pay me and we go to court (could this even happen?) the judge sees for himself how silly it is?
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How is this fair? 1 week 5 days ago #86480

You can't request "collect and pay" from the outset. It is something that only kicks in once payments have been missed.

The case I am connected to opened as direct pay, took several months of none payments before it went to collect and pay, took several more before any attempt to take from wages/bank account, took many more months before it went to a liability order.

Something about what you are saying does not add up.
If the children are split between you then both of your incomes and how many children should go into the entire calculation - so out of it there should only be 1 payment going in 1 direction. You only have 1 case for everything. Not 1 case for him and 1 for you and not 1 case per child.

Also make sure you re-read everything you have be sent and make sure you clearly understand exactly what is stuff they ARE doing and saying and what they are saying they COULD do. They tend to push the consequences of not paying as much as the situation right now.
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86481

The letter states collect and pay, is that not taken from wages? Now I am confused.

Why does it not add up? And why one way??
We have one case number which has a claim each under it. I'm lost as to why you would think the money would only go one way?
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86482

Hi Crocs

Long time no speak. Sounds like it's been a rough ride still.

As far as I know, they only use collect and pay if you refuse to pay it. I might be wrong as my knowledge of CSA is fairly limited.

It is possible to have the two cases though if the children are living separately.

Hope you're okay
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86492

crocsarecrap wrote:
The letter states collect and pay, is that not taken from wages? Now I am confused.

Why does it not add up? And why one way??
We have one case number which has a claim each under it. I'm lost as to why you would think the money would only go one way?

Collect and pay CAN be taken from wages - but it can also be paid online etc.
Direct Pay = Person A pays Person B directly - CMS assume payments have been made until told otherwise. If told otherwise then the paying person has to prove they have paid ( bank statements etc )
Collect and Pay = Person A pays CMS pays directly with a +20% fee applied. CMS then pays Person B with a 4% fee deducted.

There has to be some other reason or something that has happened for it to go to collect and pay - many receiving parents complain about how long it takes to go to collect and pay in cases where the paying parent does not pay. Something previous to do with abuse maybe, or extensive non payment.

If everything is being done and calculated through the CMS then you every parent involved only has to make OR receive one payment per other parent you are involved in. If there are only 2 parents involved in the case then 1 parent will pay the other - not both parents making payments each month.

In your situation you should receive £X from him based upon how many children live with you and what his income is. He should then receive £Y from you based upon how many children live with him and what your income is.

If £X is greater than £Y he will pay you £X-£Y.
If £Y is greater than £X you will be him £Y-£X.

Them taking direct from wages really makes little difference overall.

I would strongly suspect that your fundamental problem is nothing that you have mentioned - if he is self employed he will be able to initially on paper and if being smart show his wages as being "low" even though he may in total earn more through dividends etc ( he can mask/hide that income for a period of time until the figures on HMRC catch up - or just longer if he is just not declaring income to HMRC ).

If he is showing his income as "less" than it really is it might be why it comes out the £2.21 you mention.

To get a proper idea go through and fill this in: www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance/y
It will ask you about how many children, nights etc. You can then vary things e.g. his income - to see what difference it makes. If you do that a few times with different numbers it might help you understand the calculation overall.
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86498

No, you're confusing things completely, he has two of OUR children living there, I have one of OUR children with me. He has to pay me and I have to pay him. The letter says plain and simple, collect and pay, he has requested that apparently.
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86500

Ok its up to you, you can either read the official info and the stuff in front of you, and provide enough info here for people to help or you can just ignore it. Please read the below. What you are saying is not the norm as per the info cms provide, either there are facts missing or the CMS has made serious mistakes. If need be phone them and read them the below and ask them to explain why your case is different.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/childre...ayments-shared-care/
What happens if you have more than one child together and at least one child lives with each parent?

If you both have a child living with you, a maintenance calculation will be carried out for each of you separately, according to the normal rules.

If you both have to pay maintenance to each other, how the money will be paid is sorted out at the point of payment. This is known as offsetting.

Example

John and Ruth have eight children. Each parent has the day-to-day care of four children. Both parents apply for maintenance from the other.

Under the rules of the 2012 Scheme, the CMS calculates that Ruth has to pay £100 a month to John and John has to pay £50 a month to Ruth. Payments are offset. This means John doesn’t pay anything, and Ruth pays just £50 to John.

And......

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/childre...collect-pay-service/
What is the Collect & Pay service?

In some cases, it might not be possible to ask the other parent to pay you maintenance directly. This might be because:

the other parent has failed to pay maintenance to you directly
you don’t want the other parent to know any of your personal details
the other parent has asked to make payments this way.
In these cases, the CMS can collect payments of child maintenance and pass them on to the parent with day-to-day care of the children. If you’re getting maintenance you can’t ask for this option unless the other parent has failed to keep to a Direct Pay arrangement. However, the parent paying maintenance can ask to make payments this way.
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86501

How have I not provided you with enough info? I've provided the facts set out in front of me.

Thanks for the examples, the off set one looks like the kind of think I'm looking for. Although going through the CMS booklet last night this wasn't mentioned, will defo call them up tonight on this one.

Thanks
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How is this fair? 1 week 4 days ago #86503

Thanks for all your help!
I called up and you do get chance to pay before they collect. Also just waiting on a case worker to see if it can bee off set.

Thanks again.
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How is this fair? 1 week 3 days ago #86511

Hi,

No offence here, but it is about time women felt the wrath of what men have to go through...

I am sorry.

Paul
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