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TOPIC: Where do we stand?

Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62702

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Good evening all, well it's been well over 2 years ,,,almost 3 since I last posted here (2012) after finally successfully representing myself (with help & support from this forum and coram childrens legal services) in what I can only call a horrendous 6 year battle over contact for my daughter. To say it's been easy since the final hearing and having our contact extended would be a lie. It brought new issues from the other side but we've dealt with them as we've gone along in a calm and dignified manner. As for my daughter ,,,,,,, well it's been hard for her as there's been a constant flow of criticism both verbal & emotional , being accused of being disloyal and putting one parent over the other because finally she felt at that time she could speak up and say she wanted more contact with her dad!! This has come from both her Mum, Grandparents & mums boyfriend !
These events finally took there toll on Tuesday lunchtime when my daughter rang me totally distraught unable to utter a word for almost 2 minutes due to uncontrollable sobbing! When eventually I managed to calm her enough for her to take a breath she just said "come and get me now if I don't go now I won't be brave enough to do it"!
The long and short of it is her mum is a bully & is totally controlling as for the other parties involved they either partake or standby and say nothing!
As a family from our end we have been helping my daughter to deal & manage this for when she returns to mums as my daughter has no self worth or confidence once they start on her believing she deserves what they say about her and the punishment that may be placed upon her. (Not Physical punishment but punitive)
My Brave Courageous daughter found the strength to free herself and is now with us. Her determination is to never return and live that life, I to lived it for 16years so do understand and empathise with what she has had to live with which my daughter says helped her cope with my love and advice on how to get thru each day.
My daughter is almost 15!!
Where do we stand as my daughter does not want to return to her mothers. Ever!!
And personally I don't want her there anymore either it's tottally damaging her mentally and emotionally!!! We have everything here for her and this has always been her home to.
Mum has residency and there is a court order in place regarding contact although at this time the judge back in 2012 hoped would no longer be necessary but forgiving him not knowing my daughters mother and how good she is at acting it still stands and she never wavers from it!!
My daughter wants no contact with her mum at the moment and mum hasn't even contacted my daughter or myself, I did contact her on Tuesday afternoon to let her know ebony was safe and with us but she hasn't tried to get in touch with us!
Will we have to apply for residencey ?
Can my daughters mother enforce the order/residencey and get our daughter to return?
My daughter says she will talk to who ever she needs to so as not to have to go back. She has even recorded some of the tirades he mother and grandmother have had at her and they are horrendous and shocking even tho I had endured them myself in the past I can't believe they have turned on my daughter!!
Really could do with some advice as which course to take in making it possible for her wishes to be met legally, as for a loving home with all that is needed to nuture and protect that's always been provide unconditionally.
There are some private issues my daughter has arising from this situation which I do not wish to discuss here but it's very concerning for myself and my partner after my daughter confided in us.
Please if anyone has any knowledge of this sort of situation please let me know.
And would I be better contacting coram childrens legal services on this matter?
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62717

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Such a shame that my responses were lost when the forum went down yesterday. Did you manage to read them before they disappeared DAG?

I seem to remember that you posted that you had spoken to the children's services and were in the process of applying for the Urgent no notice Prohibited Steps Order.

I also posted that its advisable to fill out the supplementary form C1a. Which is used to tell the court about any risks your child faces....it will give you an opportunity to go into some detail about the prolonged and punitive emotional abuse she has suffered.

It might be helpful to take your daughter to see the GP to talk about what has happened, if your daughter is distressed they may be able to provide some counselling for her.

You should also make contact with the school , it's important that they know what has been happening, they too can offer some pastoral care for your daughter and support her through this difficult time.

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Last Edit: by Mojo.

Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62723

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Good morning Mojo
Yes thank you for your replies I did manage to read them and I posted a response but like you say the site went down then that to must have been lost.
Yes I'd spoke to the lcsd and they've made a note of the circumstances and call, I rang the local court and they said to submit 3 copies of the c100 plus fees. I'm taking my daughter to school on Monday morning and making an appointment then to see the head of year who I've always had a good relationship with and is aware of the lack of communication & hostilities mum has toward me, when my daughter first moved up to the higher school mum failed to submit farthers details & only found out when I called & enquired , so had a meeting with the head of year gave them the relevant court order for their records and then when I applied for the variation & extension to the order in 2012 made them aware of the fact & gave them the new copy. Plus because mum has never passed information on they now mail all correspondence to both parents regarding our daughter.
I've looked at the other form you mentioned but my printer has ran out of ink so need to get some to get that printed off.
Would I need to submit 3 copies of that form to along with the c100?
I may need some assistance if that is ok if I get stuck.
Thank you again mojo really appreciate the support. Never thought I'd be doing this im still in a daze.
My daughter partner, partners son and myself have all spoke together regarding this situation and agree it's the only way forward my daughter is adamant she will not return under any circumstance.
I feel sick & frightened as the whole system is overwhelming but I know I must be as brave as my daughter .

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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62725

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...try not to worry too much, we will do our best to advise and support you going forward. You've been to court before so you know what to expect, which will help I'm sure.

You will need to submit 4 copies, of each form (C100 and C1a)the original for the court, a copy for the other party, a copy for Cafcass and one for you...and I would advise that you take them in person if you are asking for an urgent hearing as you should then be able to get a date straight away.

Feel free to ask about any questions you need help with, or anything you're not sure about.

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62729

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Thank you again ;)

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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62765

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Hi I'm filling in the c100 form
The question;
Are you asking for permission to make this application , where that is required?
I'm right in thinking I need NO permission as I was married to my daughters mother when our daughter was born?
Also in additional information required, the question;
Are there previous or ongoing proceedings for the child(ren)?
Would that include my application to vary and extend the order back in 2012?
In addition to the above
Section 2b ;
Are you claiming exemption from the requirement to attend MIAM?
I've ticked YES
So have to complete section 13
I've completed Section 13e- Other exemptions
The applicant confirms that one of the following other grounds for exemption applies:
the application would be made without notice .
I'm right in ticking that as I'm applying for a urgent no notice PSO?
Just wanting to make sure I'm getting the form correct as I have to travel 25 miles to the court as my local family court now have all applications sent to a central court then from there they are refered back to the local court for hearings etc , so it's just saves any return trip if I've filled it in wrong to find out before hand.
Thank you in advance

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Last Edit: by DAG.

Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62766

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You're right, you don't need permission to apply.

You should tell them about all previous court proceedings involving your children, so yes that would include the application for a variation as well as the original case.
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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62774

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Hi Mojo I'm completing section 4b I've set out my reasons for the application to be considered without notice but I'm stuck on the
"Do you require a without notice because it is not possible to give notice including abridged or informal notice?"
Yes
No
If yes please set out reasons below ,,,,,,,,

The last section of 4b is no problem it's just the above question.
Just to put you in the picture a little more the current order in place for my daughters contact actually states it is to be treated as a "Shared Care Arrangment" and along with the contact which was agreed at the time and set out it reads ,
"it is agreed that there shall be such other contact as may be agreed from time to time and in accordance with (child's name) wishes and feelings."
Would that be enough for our daughters mum not be able to enforce it allowing us a little more time?
The thing is mum has made no contact with either of us at all since my daughter left on Tuesday lunch time. Other than replying "ok" when I txt in the evening saying our daughter is safe and staying here for now. If I did try to initiate contact with regards to the issues it would just deteriorate immediately without doubt and aggrevate the situation. In the past 2006 onwards mum has stopped contact and I've had to go back to court to reinstate it although this hasn't happened with the current order she does still sticks regimentally to the times days etc and will do so just to be awkward with the full knowledge of our daughter not bothering of the effect has on her as I've said previosly our daughter is almost 15 yet she lives in fear of the consequences of upsetting mum.

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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62780

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....hmmm. I think The Shared Care Arrangement might put a different slant on it. Does it state anywhere in the current Order who she resides with and who she has contact with? If not then your daughter can live with either of you. The mother may enforce the fact that she doesn't have contact though....is there a warning notice attached at the bottom of the Order?

You know, once your daughter is 16 the Order is finished and she can choose where she wants to live.

I can understand why you might not want to rock the boat, if the mother doesn't intend to pursue this. Even if she goes for enforcement for contact, because of your daughters age her wishes and feelings would carry a lot of weight. Perhaps you should consider holding off for the moment until the dust settles, I know it's hard to call....

If the Order doesn't state who your daughter resides with, you could think about writing her a formal letter, or getting a solicitor to write her a letter to state that as you have a shared care arrangement, your daughter wishes to live permanently with you. That due to your daughters distress she has expressed a wish not to return or to have contact at the moment, but this may change given time. Make her aware that you will be liaising with the school and changing her address with them and also with the GP (or changing GPs to yours if that is the case). Also that you will be putting in a claim for child benefit and tax credits to reflect the change in your daughters circumstances.

Is there a third party who could mediate between you and the mother? What about Mediation?

Only you can evaluate the situation and decide how to move it forward, but it seems that you have options and perhaps going full throttle to court might not be necessary.
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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62784

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Hi Mojo the order is a 'Contact and Resience order'
As I said it states
'Upon the parties agreeing that the following Order be treated as a shared care arrangement '
It reads differently when referring to contact some occasions it states
"The child (Name) shall live with the Applicant Father (Name) on such & such date" etc
"The child shall live with the mother such & such date" etc
Then on the mid week it states it as "Contact" as its only for 2 1/2 hours.
It does state in section 7
'The Child (Name) , shall live with the Respondent (Mother) at all other times.
There is a warning attached at the bottom which reads;
Where a residence Order is in force no person may cause the child to be know by a new surname or remove the child from the United Kingdom without the written consent of every person with parental responsibility for the child or leave of the court.
However, this does not prevent the removal of the child, for a period of less than 1 month, by the person in whose favour the residence Order is made (Section 13 (1) and (2) Children Act 1989).
It may be a criminal offence under the Child Abduction Act1884 to remove the child from the United Kingdom without the leave of the court.
Where a contact order is in force : if you do not comply with this contact order-
(a) you may be committed to prison or fined; and/or
(b) the Court may make an order requiring you to undertake unpaid work ("an enforcement order") and/or an order that you pay financial compensation.
I guess the above warning is a universal one that is used orders relating to contact/residence.

I know when our daughters 16 she can choose but in the meantime as mum has residence I'm positive , No in fact 100% sure Mum will Not want our daughter residing with me as it will affect her Benefits /CSA and the Mesha Order on the Marital Home.
If I thought a letter would work I would take that route but it would be received with contempt as all other correspondence sent has been treated in a such way.
As for mediation,,, well every step of the way from 2006 when mediation has been recommended or offered she has refused and been allowed to with no consequence other than having to drag it thru the court system every time and we are talking of over 20 court appearences between 2006-20012 this is the longest it's gone without having to go to court over contact. To be honest there is no one left who would want to mediate that I know personally as knowing our daughters mother they know she does not want to cooperate on any level, but just cause disruption. Her problem is she doesn't like to be told what to do by anyone and doesn't like advice or suggestion only her way or no way. On one occasion during proceedings the Cafcass officer overseeing even commented they had never come across anyone with such reluctancy to listen to sound advice!
It may be I hold fire and let her go for an enforcement order against me then let it be dealt with on hearing our daughters wishes and feelings being taken into account as you suggest.
There's no way she would sign family allowance over to me or pay maintenance.
As for now I'm at school in the morning so will make them aware of the situation and let my Daughter express her wishes& feelings so nothing can be alleged by mum that I'm going against the order .
Talking with our dauaghter today she says if she was forced to return her ability to refrain from what concerns us deeply would be heightened due to the distress that would accompany her return this resulting from mums attitude & actions as she says this is the first time she has had the courage to actually remove herself from the situation.
I'm going to have to think carefully how to handle it
I'm really thankful of your support.

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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62790

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It sounds to me that you have a shared residence order, as it doesn't say the child lives with the mother and has contact with the father. It does say that the child will live with the applicant father at such times and with the mother at other times.

You do not need the mother to sign the child benefit over to you, you just make an application stating that she now lives with you permanently. The same with the tax credits. It will effect her benefits but she has one less mouth to feed etc and its your right to claim the benefits to use for your daughter.

I don't know about Mesha Orders. I would advise that you follow up on this now that your daughter no longer lives there.

I'm going to PM you.
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Where do we stand? 4 years 3 months ago #62817

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Good afternoon Mojo
I have taken my daughter to school this morning and we have had a talk with the head of year for over 2 hours!
Mum apparently had called ahead this morning asking the head of year to let her know if our daughter was attending school today, as in her words '(name) had thrown a teenage strop , marched out on Tuesday and she hadn't seen her since but presumed she was still at her dads, and there was no way I (mum) was going to be held to ransom by a stroppy moody teenager who threw a tantrum when asked to do something!'
'And if she chooses to live at her dads then I will pack her things and send them thru because I'm not claiming benefits because it would be wrong if she's not living with me and I will pack in working (only 16hrs per wk) and move in with my boyfriend because I've put my life on hold and can't do anymore than ive done for (name) as she's had it all, please just call and let me know she's at school!'
I sat there mouth wide open!
Having had to sit through that little story my daughter just went straight into the true events. She came out with it all when & how it started (back in 2012 when asked if she wanted more contact with dad) she just reeled events off as if it was a journal in her head up to present day, then she played the recordings & told her head of year what it had lead her to do as it had made her feel worthless and it was all her fault and deserved all that was directed at her!
The Head of year just listened then said it wasn't our daughters fault at all and it isn't deserved it is actually mental & emotional abuse !!!!!
And as my daughter said if she was to return it would be worse as mum & co would not let it go and would constantly use it against her .
The head said she wouldn't let my daughter return under these circumstances she was shocked at the recordings and events mum had aleged had led to our daughter leaving.
Anyway we have the heads full support in what decision our daughter makes.
So it looks as if for now Mum is not going to stand in the way of anything!!!?!
So we are going to continue cautiously and sit down together and put something together on paper , informal for now from my daughter explaining her wishes & feelings to mum asking her to respect her decision at this time .
I will come back to tell more later as I've got to go, but at least it seems it could be easier than we first thought let's hope it lasts

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