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TOPIC: 2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed

2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65457

  • BMurkin
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My second hearing tomorow following my poor section 7 that recommends that i carry on with supported contact and self refer and self fund to a risk assessment with DVIP.

I will of course challenge it but i doubt the magistrates will entertain it.

Ive had 20 weeks of supported contact, there are no allegations between me and my son and, most importantly, my wife has said in writing that my son loves seeing me and enjoys spending time with me. Despite all this cafcass have recommended that i stay where i am because of one instance were i threatened my wife in the heat of the moment.

I am sorry for the threat and it happened since we were living together in a tense and stressful environment. Now that we are apart, there will be no arguments.

Also, the DVIP have confirmed in writing to me, considering there hasnt been a fact finding, they cant write an accurate report.

Ill have a barrister on the day but can people here help me to pitch a decent argument to convince the courts to progress my contact to contact in the community. Ill need to explain to the barrister what i want him to say and im not sure.

Ill do the risk assesment but considering there are no allegation between me and son and wife has said son is happy with me, im confused why cafcass have recommended that there shouldnt be progression.

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2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65466

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I think you've outlined in your post the kind of briefing you should have with your barrister BM.

The CAFCASS officer that compiled the report should know that due to a lack of FOF an accurate assessment by DVIP is unrealistic.

I think I've got some case law against supervision in contact centres, that your barrister could use....google case law against the use of contact centres and see what you can come up with.

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Mum and Grandmother, supporting my son who has residency of his son.
I want to see a much fairer system in place, where Dads and their children have a voice that can be heard.
There are many groups of people that have equal rights within our society and its about time Dads were given equal rights too.

2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65467

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Mum and Grandmother, supporting my son who has residency of his son.
I want to see a much fairer system in place, where Dads and their children have a voice that can be heard.
There are many groups of people that have equal rights within our society and its about time Dads were given equal rights too.

2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65471

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Mum and Grandmother, supporting my son who has residency of his son.
I want to see a much fairer system in place, where Dads and their children have a voice that can be heard.
There are many groups of people that have equal rights within our society and its about time Dads were given equal rights too.

2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65474

Very useful post by NJ. I would go along the lines that should findings be made against you, they would not amount to a bar in contact (depending on the actual case matter) etc. Nevertheless, the Judges err on the side of caution but should have been reminded that any unnecessary delay isn't in child's best interest.

September is round the corner, hang in there. One more report, hopefully the last one before contact is reinstated I would hope.

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Last Edit: by halfoyster. Reason: typo

2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65476

What were the circumstances of your threat BM?

Was it clearly a flippant comment in the heat of the moment? Or was it a sinister threat to kill?

Did police investigate the threat to kill? It is a serious criminal offence... If police did not investigate then why not? I'm presuming if they didn't your ex didn't report it to police or didn't want police to investigate it.

You need to convince the court that your threat was a flippant comment in the heat of the moment. We're you drunk when you did it? Did your ex believe the threat or did she not report it to police because she also thought it was a flippant comment in the heat of the moment.

Your ex and social services are obviously making a big deal out of the threat you made. In criminal law for the offence of threats to kill to be complete the perpetrator has to intend that the person he is threatening believes that the threat to kill could be carried out - it doesn't matter whether the perpetrator intends to carry out the threat or not.

You know the evidence better than we do in regard to the circumstances surrounding the threat. Your barrister knows the law. Your barrister and hers will battle it out to convince the judge of the severity of the threat and the risk you pose to others when you are angry. It will come down to the evidence available to the judge and when you and your ex are cross examined who judge believes.

You need to keep your cool in court and convince judge you are not a danger to anyone when you are angry.

I think this will be difficult tbh as you've admitted to making a serious threat when you were angry. But as far as I know you've ni criminal convictions, police aren't investigating the matter and I havnt heard the evidence.

Was the recording played to the judge? Is it even legal to submit recordings as evidence as you were recorded covertly? What you said, how you said it, whether you were drunk are all factors. What evidence does the judge have? In court it all comes down to evidence. In a civil court the judge only has to believe your ex on the balance of probabilities. I am not sure the differences in admissible evidence in family court and criminal court but if I were you I'd ask my barrister to go down the line that your ex deliberately wound you up to record you and get you to react badly - entrapment. Also did she conveniently leave any bits of the argument out of the recording? Was it edited? This is all your barristers job mate. That's what you are paying them for!

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2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65480

  • Mojo
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Good point about Covert Recording Carlin. It jogged my memory about what is written about this in CAFCASS operating Framework. Here's a link to it, the section in question can be found on page 14

www.cafcass.gov.uk/media/212819/cafcass_operating_framework.pdf

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

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2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65497

  • actd
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I don't think the court has to accept covert recordings, but I do believe that the judge can allow it at his/her discretion. Certainly worth making the entrapment point though.

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2nd hearing tomorrow - nervous and advise needed 4 years 2 months ago #65551

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Hi BM how did your hearing go?

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Mum and Step Mum, supporting my partner through the Family Court maze. I feel passionately about children having a right to a relationship with both parents and am currently in training to be an MF.
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