• Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71183

Hello all. I have a recently determined court order that my son lives with both parents (Shared Residence in old money). Relations with the mother are still very fractious.


I am currently looking for holidays for next year and was wondering if I wished to take him abroad for a week within my allocated residency period, whether I am legally able despite likely resistance from the mother. She has his passport (and birth certificates) in her possession at present so I could see a situation where she would refuse to hand it over.

Any advice gratefully received, cheers.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71186

  • othen
  • othen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • I just concentrate on being a good dad.
  • Posts: 316
  • Thank you received: 58
Usually the SRO has a warning with a standard form of words saying neither parent may take the child abroad without consent of everyone else with PR (my son's SRO does). This does not give you any right to take your child overseas of course, so if your ex-wife will not agree then you would need a court to do so, and to order her to hand over the passport. This is reasonable, so a court is not going to refuse it, but it is pretty clumsy (and probably expensive), you would have to weigh up whether it is worthwhile.

It would be better to agree it with the child's mother, but if you know she is going to be difficult then it might be prudent to plan holidays in the UK for the time being (my son and I maintain a nice holiday cabin in Norfolk for exactly that reason).I suspect your problem (with your ex-wife) is a control issue: she has possession of the child's passport and isn't going to give it up without a fight. That is pretty common and there isn't an easy solution, perhaps it is best to plan hols in Wells next the Sea.

Best wishes for the New Year,

O

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71189

  • Mojo
  • Mojo's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 8466
  • Thank you received: 1734
Hi there

If the mother won't give permission, or part with the passport, you can apply to the court for a Specific Issue Order. You would have to attend Mediation first, to see if you can reach agreement, as she has had experience of court, she may decide to do the reasonable thing and agree .

If this isn't an option for you then I can recommend Cornwall, one of my favourite places to holiday.

Good luck.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71198

  • othen
  • othen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • I just concentrate on being a good dad.
  • Posts: 316
  • Thank you received: 58
Hi again Jim,

Mojo is of course absolutely right regarding the procedure. Unfortunately in practice this is nearly impossible to achieve. First you would have to ask for your ex-wife's permission to take your child overseas and for his passport. She probably just will not answer, and then you have the choice of taking a chance on booking an overseas holiday and risking that she will not agree or release son's passport, or not. If she just doesn't answer you would then have to invite her to mediation (I would suggest at your cost) and if that doesn't work you could pursue a Specific Issue Order. I would suggest all of that could easily take 6 months to happen if she chooses to drag her heels, which probably makes it not worth the risk in the first place.

Unless you can strike up an uncommonly cordial relationship with your son's mother it is probably not worth trying to arrange foreign holidays. Even if you do get her agreement she may change her mind at the last moment, when it is too late to do much about it (my son's mother did that even did that twice whilst we were married, and decided not to travel on the eve of family holidays I'd paid and taken leave for - and with no reason that she could recall afterwards!).

It may be that your ex-wife intends to take your son on a foreign holiday herself at some time, at that stage it might we worth reminding her that she needs your permission to do so, and perhaps strike up a bilateral agreement at that stage. In the meantime I can't help thinking that a really good holiday in the UK with your son would be better for his memories of childhood than last minute cancellations and disappointment. There are lots of great places to stay in the UK, Mojo's recommendation of Cornwall is good, I like Norfolk, Scotland is nice (if you don't mind a bit of rain) .

Best wishes,

O

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by othen. Reason: Typo

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71201

  • Mojo
  • Mojo's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 8466
  • Thank you received: 1734
...it can work, but I wouldn't suggest booking until it is sorted out.

Write to the mother formally, giving her notice that you wish to take your child on a weeks holiday abroad during your allocated time and request that she makes his passport and signed letter of permission available a month before, as is usual practice when it is part of a court order.

Reassure her that you will share all information with her once you have booked, to include destination, flight times and hotel name and would be agreeable to facilitating telephone or FaceTime contact whilst away.

Give her 14 days to respond and ask that she reply in writing and state that if you don't hear back from her you will have to assume that she doesn't agree, in which case you will initiate mediation and an application to court if this fails. Explain that if that happens you would be applying for a Specific Issue Order and as you have shared residence, the court are highly likely to make the order.

It might help to explain that there will be times when she may want to take your child away too and you would have no problem with this, as a holiday with either parent would be greatly enjoyable and of much benefit to your son.

See where it goes, she may want to avoid court and realise that cooperation from both sides is what's best.
The following user(s) said Thank You: othen

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71203

  • othen
  • othen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • I just concentrate on being a good dad.
  • Posts: 316
  • Thank you received: 58
... that might work.

Good fortune,

O

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71204

  • Mojo
  • Mojo's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 8466
  • Thank you received: 1734
Thanks Othen..... Start the process now, this gives you plenty of time to cover all eventualities in time.

All the best.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71205

My current SRO states:

1. I am the holder of the passport as I applied for it.
2. Full copy of passport to be given to mother (I posted her a colour copy)
3. Parties to give 6 weeks notice of intended holidays
4. Passport holder(which is myself) to make passport available at least 10 ten days before travel date to other parent(mother)
5. Mother to return passport to myself as soon as she returns from holiday.
6. Parties to give full details of travel including names/details of all those travelling with child, emergency contact details and copies of flight itinerary.

Assuming you cannot resolve this amicably or via mediation best bet would be to get this into court as soon as and get a variation of the current order and apply the above and at the same time apply for specific issues order for the holiday you want to take in the near future.

There is no holiday like a holiday abroad and to be honest, it is better dealt with now, then to leave it to drag on.

Good luck mate

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71206

Thanks all. For now I don't feel I have the strength or available finances for another court battle so this year my current partner and I have agreed on Devon with the little fella. It will need resolving for the future though so when things settle down I'll broach the subject, armed with the necessary knowledge and probably get a steer from my solicitor too.

Fingers crossed for the weather.

Cheers.
The following user(s) said Thank You: craigmcd

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71208

  • othen
  • othen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • I just concentrate on being a good dad.
  • Posts: 316
  • Thank you received: 58
Hi Jim,
That is probably the sensible thing to do, at least for the time being. I don't think that your children particularly like travel very much (particularly on cheap holiday flights) so I strongly disagree with Craigmcd that overseas holidays are better. You will have a great time in Devon, put yourself in your son's shoes and think about what he would like to do, make sure you go somewhere with unlimited WiFi, make sure he gets his own really nice room, there is a pool and lots of things to do for someone of his age (ideally lots of similar aged kids around).
Good fortune,
O

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Shared Residence & Holidays Abroad 3 years 6 months ago #71218

  • actd
  • actd's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 10605
  • Thank you received: 1592
I have to agree with othen - but I may be biased because I'm not a massive fan of foreign holidays. I would wait until he's old enough to appreciate the excitement of the plane journey as that should be part of the experience, in my view, not just a means of getting there.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: Samantha Downes