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TOPIC: Holiday

Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76602

  • Jon7
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Please can someone let me know about this -

My ex (still married but separated divorce filed by me) has agreed to let me take our children to a local UK holiday, she has right from the start disagreed with letting me take them for a week. I then asked for 5 days but she did however say that I could take them for about 3 days,

I asked her if i can take the night before so we can get away early, she has said no I can pick them up afternoon, then I must return them afternoon 3 days later, the way it seems is she calls whatever she wants to at the minute and I seem to have no choice but to comply.

I still booked the 5 days but if I listen to her this will mean cutting the children's holiday short by around 2 days,

What are the legal implications if I was to allow the children to fully enjoy their holiday? It is in UK and I am listed on both birth certificates and always been in their lives as their dad.

I would expect we have joint parental responsibility but this is all new to me and I am not really that familiar with what I can and cannot do.

Thank you for any advice on this as I don't want my children to miss out just because she wants to be awkward.

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Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76614

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technically, she can't stop you from having them for the full 5 days once you have them, but if you pick this fight now, she's going to make it much harder for you in the future. Whilst you don't want to let her have her way entirely, at this stage, it might be worth compromising a little to see if it gets you any leeway in the future. You could go on the holiday and ring her on the third day to see if she'll let them stay on for another day, but if she says no, then take them back and try again another time. If she makes it harder in the future, that's when you might have to make more of a fight of it, but this time, I think it's worth making the most of the three days in case you can't have any more.

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Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76619

Hi There,
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Without any official order in place from the family court, if you keep hold of the children for longer than she has agreed, it is lickely to cuase you a lot of issues, she could even go as far as calling the police and have them come to you and take the children back. The police sometimes deem this as a cival matter, but they could take it as abduction if she lays it on thick when she calls them.
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I would as actd says take them and call her asking if you can have them longer whilst there and if she says no return them, I would then when home start the proccess with mediation, find one locally to you both and set up a meeting, the mediator will invite your ex along, if she will attend then you can try and work out a better schedule including holidays ect, if she won't then you could apply to the family court for assistance and they would help you to get an official order in place, you could get that order to cover all of the time you spend with your children and also holidays (inc abroad)
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GTTS

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Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76623

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Great thanks for your replies! I have already tried to get her to mediation I attended one already myself and she has simply refused it, apparently there is some type of certificate I can get now to go to the court, I really think it is the way to go with this as she is so controlling over everything at the moment

Thank you for your advice on this I will wait and see if she relents as I know this will upset my little boy to have to leave as my new partner and her little girl are going too but they won't need to leave early so this could be really hard for me and him if she continues to be awkward

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Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76626

Hi There,
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I do think that these things can escalate, when the control starts off as it has, when you relent and follow what she has set then chances are it will continue, if you make a stand, you need to ensure you do it the right way, so as said take your son back when she has stated but document all of the coms between the 2 of you ready to use when you either mediate or go through court.
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It would depend on how long ago you attended mediation on your own as to whther you would need to try again before applying to court, the mediator should be able to advise you on this, they would sign the C100 which is the application to court for an order to be made and then you can submit this with what you are looking to achieve.
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If you end up applying to court you don't need to use a solicitor as you can represent yourself through out and we can offer advice and support, the fees are £215 for the application.
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Just ensure that you keep everything straight before applying to court, I know it's a real pain having to go along with what she has said but by following it, it will make you job in court a lot easier as she won't have any dirt to throw at you and you can just discuss her levels of control.
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The courts and judges look at what is best for your child not you or his mother, so when you make the application, word things around that rather than yourself, so instead of something like.........I had to bring my son back from a holiday meaning I missed time with him, word things.........,my son had to be returned home early from his family holiday with myself and my family, meaning he missed out on quality time with us.
.
GTTS

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Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76629

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To echo some of the advice given really, I think there does come a point where the more control you allow her to have the more she will exert eg who with, what are you doing, don't let them xyz.

I think a way to broach it might be to say its not fair on your son to not be allowed to see his dad like that and make it clear you are not controlling her you just want what's fair for your son.

Sadly, unless there is a big shift I think a lot of dads here know where this is headed I'm afraid to say.

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~E=mc2~

Holiday 3 years 3 months ago #76647

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I'm of the mind that it can be a good idea to take the bull by the horns. You have PR so that's important, she's aware that the holiday is 5 days and it's extremely controlling and selfish for her to play this game with the children.

I think you have two options, you can apply for an urgent Specific Issue Order, because it's urgent you don't have to attend mediation first. You would be asking the court to allow you to take the children for 5 days and to pick them up the night before. This will cost you £215, but you might consider it worth it as a point of principle.

The other alternative is to call the police and explain to them that you will be taking your children on holiday for five days,the mother will only agree to 3 days but you have PR and you don't want the children to miss out, the holiday is paid for and you will be returning the children home as soon as the holiday is over.....I'm pretty sure that they will say that as you have PR then you are within your rights to do that and if she does contact them whilst you are away they will already know the score.

Then once you are away contact her and inform her in writing (email is ok) of your rights as a parent with PR, that you will be away for 5 days and returning the children as soon as you return. Let her know that you have spoken to the police and they have clarified your rights as a parent with PR and are aware that they will be returned on said date.

She's a control freak and as has already been pointed out, she could stop contact on your return, you would then have the option of mediation or court. To be honest, the way she is acting it looks likely that this is on the cards anyway, it might be better to get this sorted out sooner rather than later!

Whatever you decide, best of luck and let us know how you get on with it.

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Last Edit: by Mojo.

Holiday 3 years 2 months ago #76886

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Thank you all for your advice on this

Having considered my options I decided (rightly or wrongly) to take Mojo advice and grab the bull by the horns. This was largely due to my son expressing his wishes to stay for the duration of his family holiday, so I messaged her to request that they can stay the full term due to my sons request, she refused again so I messaged again that our sons happiness was my main priority and in his best interests as a parent with joint parental responsibility I would be returning them at the end of the holiday. when I returned home she didn't say a word just took the children and slammed the door in my face.

I have up until now been having the children during the week as well as every other weekend but I have now just received a message to say that this will now be stopping, she has cited my sons behaviour following mid week contact as one of the reasons along with not returning them on time/day agreed,

I have his school report which is absolutely fine no behavioural issues mentioned at all however I have noticed a change in his behaviour being much more angry little lad since she has been reducing contact with me. Furthermore she now has another new bloke on the scene involved in and around my children this is the second one in within a month of getting rid of her last one.

I find the uncertainty of this is not helping given that my son has said he wants us to get back together, I have explained this will never happen and he can have two homes etc. this all came about as a direct result of his mothers actions to abandon the marriage in the first place in favour of other men,

Really I need to get this to court now I am sure this is the only way as she has already said her mind will not be changed on this, please anybody that can give me any advice on this will be massively appreciated. It would seem you all saw this coming miles off, sadly I had hoped it wouldn't come to this but it has.

Seems I married the wrong woman in the first place and should have been more wary given that I was aware of the way she was when we married, isolating my family members to the point of isolation, finally turning on me, I believe she has a personality disorder which is affecting everything she is doing and has done

Thanks again for your replies so far, am really hurting over this. ;-( :boohoo:

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Holiday 3 years 2 months ago #76887

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Oh I forgot to add next suggested contact will be a full 2 weeks from the time I had previously seen the children

How can this be fair to their wellbeing to remove me from their lives like that at her own discretion, the poor little ones my son will have even more sadness and hurt :-(

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Holiday 3 years 2 months ago #76891

I have trudged a similar path to you mate. A control freak, as I know having been entrenched in this for 2.5 years revels in controlling you. Adult civil arrangements are beyond her. I took my control freak to court, the court very quickly seen through her.

I beleive in England you need mediation 1st. Offer it. She will decline and get her in the process. A control freak has to be governed by a court in this situation otherwise you face a constant array of lateness, cancellation etc. It will take time but it's easier to deal with with a defined timetable otherwise the bastard wins in her eyes by remaining in control of you and your sons destiny

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Holiday 3 years 2 months ago #76950

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Hi there

It's important that you get to mediation asap, whether you think she will attend or not, mediation is now a requirement before a court application can be made. Make an appointment and get the ball rolling, the mediator will contact your ex and ask her to attend, if after a couple of weeks or so she hasn't responded, or has ignored the request for mediatio, or mediations fails, the mediatir will sign off the C100 form to enable you to make an application to court. Here's a link to the mediation services

www.nfm.org.uk

Have a look through the stickys at the top of the legal eagle section, there's plenty of information about the court process that you should find helpful. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask and we will do all we can to advise and support you.

For what it's worth I think you did the right thing standing up to her, it might take a little time but you will get this sorted out and will feel much better when you have taken back control of the situation.

All the best

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Last Edit: by Mojo.
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