TOPIC: Mother of Child Lying

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 11 months ago #88888

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0
OK so this is where I am at.
My partner disappeared with my daughter from our family home on a Friday morning after I had a disagreement with her sister about taking my daughter out for the day and did not return. I spent the next week trying to contact her to no avail.

Eventually after 2 weeks I applied for a prohibitive steps order and requested the court order my daughter be returned to the family home. The Court made this order and served the order on the mother via email as I had no idea where she was.

The mother attended court a week later and applied for a non molestation order upon me claiming I had sent her an abundance of texts and I was trying to locate her. This is true, I was as my daughter had gone missing and I was worried for her welfare having learned my partner had since quit her job, had no income, no fixed abode and no savings with which to support our daughter.

The non molestation order was granted pending a fact finding hearing and my application was set to be reviewed. My partner has been instructed to supply a list of allegations against me by December (not heard anything yet) and I am to supply a response by January.

Her initial list of allegations within the non molestation application reads like a wikipedia for domestic violence. I have literally been accused of everything under the sun and she has even stated she is fearful for our daughter when I am with her.

The same daughter I have cared for Sunday, Monday and Tuesday on a weekly basis while my partner works. Does anyone have any experience or advice? I've never been violent towards my partner and applied for an order to have my daughter to be returned home because the mother quite simply cut off all contact with me without explanation!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by Optimus.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88907

There is a reason the list of allegations seems so comprehensive - Women's Aid. They coach "victims" through the court process as do solicitors and quite wrongly, the police.

You are no longer dealing with the woman you thought you knew. You are now dealing with the "real her" and her support network who will do all they can to come between you and your child.

I thought about re-wording the paragraph above as it sounds ridiculous but sadly, it is how it is. Happened to me and countless others here.

Your best bet is to focus on your case. Find evidence to disprove these allegations - texts, emails, family videos anything.

Good luck with this, you can do very well if you self represent. Just stay calm, child focused AND aware that no matter what the real truth is, you will have an uphill struggle to show you can be a parent to your child and that you are not a risk to the ex or anyone else.
The following user(s) said Thank You: superprouddad, Optimus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by justdad.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88909

justdad, your comments are spot on. can't emphasize enough how right you are. women's aid has completely lost track of the reason why it exists, and became an organisation hell bent on destroying men, i'm very sorry to say.


When me and my ex were separating, they told her to wait for me to go to work, change the locks, put my stuff outside, and once I came back from work and tried to open the door, call the police. I had done absolutely NOTHING other than go to work to provide for my family, and these psychos advised her on how to get me arrested, on the single basis that I am a man.


I was more fortunate than others here, because my ex had the good sense of not following their advise, and she later told me this story one day when we sat down and had an open and honest conversation.


Optimus, I know how stressful this is for you, I have been through the same, so has justdad, so do many others every day. In my experience, magistrates at court and CAFCASS are a lot more impartial. Follow justdad's advise, he had it worse than me and knows what he is talking about. Rise above the bait, keep it focused on what's good for the child and resist the temptation of berating the mother. Let her dig her own hole.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Optimus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88924

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0
Thanks both, there were no allegations of this nature whatsoever until I applied for my daughter to be returned home.
I did it via a without notice hearing and upon telling the Judge my daughter had been taken without explanation, my partner had terminated her employment and had no fixed abode the Judge immediately ordered for her to be returned to the care of both parents forthwith and even placed an all ports warning on her passport.

My partner was served and ordered to attend court a week later at which point, out of the blue, 25 points of domestic violence, some quite nonsensical were listed in an application for a non molestation order! The order requested 12 Months! Fortunately so far the Judge only agreed to 6 weeks until the First Directions Appoointment Hearing.

I immediately opposed this order and the Judge has already asked my partner to list these allegations in a scott schedule which she has to submit to me and the court by tomrrow. I am sure she will simply list the most serious from this extensive list.

The irony here is she used to have a drink problem and regularly beat me but this was historic and she has NEVER been physically abusive towards me since she stopped drinking.

I've already had the call with CAFCASS and yes I do agree, I feel like initially and even with giving me a 6 week NMO instead of 12 months, the Judge, while required to err on the side of caution, is at least giving me the benefit of the doubt here rather than immediately sentencing me to 12 months NMO which I am certain will further harm my case.

It does seem like a system designed to protect women is indeed being abused by some. I've since learned my partner has taken my daughter to a refuge, without a scratch on her I might add and they have taken her at face value & welcomed her in. Furthermore this has then enabled her to obtain a Solicitor via legal aid and I believe also apply for housing via welfare!

I have remained child oriented throughout this whole sorry mess, whereas my partner appears to be doing what is best for her and not our daughter. She has removed our daughter from a secure family owned home, luckily I am not married and the house is in my sole name - which I already have left to my daughter in my will.

The thing is I actually have texts from my partner to her sister in which she admits to hitting me! I have a recording in which she admits to hitting me and there being no retaliation on my part. I believe it's relatively strong evidence should this go as far as a fact finding hearing at which point I would have to represent myself. I can currently afford a Solicitor who I have instructed to try and end this situation early with a suggestion of Shared Residency but if this goes any further then I will have to go it alone. I can't afford Barristers etc.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88925

You've wasted your money on a solicitor.

She won't agree to shared care - her solicitor will be telling her to go through the process - it's all profit for them.

When you receive the Scott Schedule, counter with the DV you can evidence against you.

I don't wish to be rude but you really need to stop thinking this woman is going to be anywhere near reasonable for at least the next two to three years.

Open your mind to every possibility and NEVER let your guard down. When things started for me, I felt like I had entered The Twilight Zone. I still do at times.

I now assist other fathers through the court process and in over 15 cases, I have only come across one where things were anywhere near "normal" or "reasonable". The rest seem to have followed the same pattern, same allegations and some where the fathers have had to accept indirect contact only.

One word crops up over and over again.

Narcissism.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Daddysmissingbaby, Optimus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by justdad.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88926

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0
Yes, obviously I would be forced to counter these allegations.
Would I produce the evidence with the Scott Schdedule or do I just counter her allegations within it and save the actual evidence for fact finding?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88928

You just fill in the boxes on the schedule and produce the evidence at the hearing (or just before) or rely upon evidence already filed.

Fact Findings are a hit and miss affair. I came through my own with no findings against me but I have been at others where I know full well what the truth is yet findings say otherwise.

The judge decides on "the balance of probability" and the only way to be sure you can prove something is to present clear and undeniable evidence.

Your demeanour and that of the ex in court will be assessed and may well contribute to the "probability" factor. So for example, if she says you are prone to temper outbursts, her barrister is very likely to try to rile you to the point where you get angry!

Being calm and child focused as well as knowledgeable is the key to winning most hearings.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Optimus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88929

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0
Thanks so much. That's the stance I've taken from the outset.

The position I'm essentially taking is that I believe our daughter needs both her parents in her life.
The majority of this pathetic Non Mol is essentially focussed on illustrating what a shitty partner I have been - it doesn't actually spend much time on my ability to father my daughter.

My position will be that whether or not my ex believes I have been a bad partner, I have not been a poor father, in fact I've been an excellent one, caring for our daughter equally while my partner returned to work - until she deliberately terminated her employment! She was perfectly happy to leave our daughter in my care for a number of days, an extensive period of time but now magically I have suddenly become a danger to our daughter - over a sodding disagreement over whether her sister could take her out for the day! Unbelievably in the Non Mol application she has listed this as my holding our daughter prisoner! I simply said no she couldn't take her out as it was my day off and she could have taken her out Monday-Thursday!

It seems to me she has initially removed any and all obstructions that keep her from our daughter, including her place of employment.

My ex is currently withholding my daughter from me, whereas I have continually stated I believe our daughter should experience shared care and be positively co-parented. It's my hope the court and CAFCASS will see this.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88930

If you have evidence of your partner admitting to hitting you, and that happened in front of the child, you have a strong case for the child to be removed from the mother until the mother seeks psychological treatment and gets better.

A child witnessing violence is an incredibly damaging experience for that child.

You are right that the child benefits the most from having both parents involved, and that should be the ultimate goal, but don’t be naive like we were. She won’t be reasonable until it becomes obvious that she will loose her child unless she becomes reasonable.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88931

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0

superprouddad wrote: If you have evidence of your partner admitting to hitting you, and that happened in front of the child, you have a strong case for the child to be removed from the mother until the mother seeks psychological treatment and gets better.

A child witnessing violence is an incredibly damaging experience for that child.

You are right that the child benefits the most from having both parents involved, and that should be the ultimate goal, but don’t be naive like we were. She won’t be reasonable until it becomes obvious that she will loose her child unless she becomes reasonable.


Our Daughter is only 1 year old, however yes I have the evidence.

I have the photograph I took of my nose immediately after she did it - more importantly I have a copy of a text she sent her sister stating she had punched me in the nose on the same date the photograph was taken.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88932

Did you tell cafcass about mom’s violent history towards you ?

You need to read this:

www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rule...rections/pd_part_12j

It’s likely that she is going to allege you are a perpretators of domestic violence and should not be allowed to see your child. Again, take justdad’s advice, he went through it and beat the system, but be ready for things to get worse before they get better.

From your description, a fact find hearing may not be a bad thing. It would allow you to clear your name and mom would then loose legal aid.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Daddysmissingbaby

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mother of Child Lying 1 year 10 months ago #88934

  • Optimus
  • Optimus's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 0

superprouddad wrote: Did you tell cafcass about mom’s violent history towards you ?

You need to read this:

www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rule...rections/pd_part_12j

It’s likely that she is going to allege you are a perpretators of domestic violence and should not be allowed to see your child. Again, take justdad’s advice, he went through it and beat the system, but be ready for things to get worse before they get better.

From your description, a fact find hearing may not be a bad thing. It would allow you to clear your name and mom would then loose legal aid.


I did... however as I'm not currently trying to make it look like a tit-for-tat issue, I played it down in that it was an historical event.
I should know by tomorrow precisely what, if any, allegations she's going to make against me as that's the date the court have set her to submit any allegations in a Scott Schedule to the court.

I also have a recording in which she admits to hitting and kicking me as well as throwing a bottle at me - and confirms I did not relatiate in any way and compliments me on my restraint.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Samantha Downes