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TOPIC: Potential order breach tomorrow

Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96873

  • Marco
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Some advice needed please

The terms of my child contact are:

It is ordered by consent that between the date of this order and the next hearing the respondent mother shall make the children available to spend time with the applicant father as follows:
(a) Each Tuesday from 2pm until 6pm commencing 16.10.18 and alternate Saturdays from 2.30pm until 6.30pm commencing 13.10.18 for Child 1
(b) Each Friday from 2pm until 6pm commencing 11.10.18 and alternate Sundays from 2.30pm until 6.30pm commencing 14.10.18 for Child 2
(c) For such other or additional time as can be agreed between the parties;
(d) The children to be collected and returned to and from the mother by the applicant’s father’s Step Father.

As per (c) I managed to get last weekend as an extra visit, all was going well (extra ammo for section 7) or so I thought.
This evening when my step dad took back child 2 and said he will see child 1 tomorrow as per court order. The mother said No, saying that I had them last week and court order says every other week. (yet she just gave 2 weekends in a row)

Does my step dad still go tomorrow with copy of court order? Is she violating the order if she refuses or is not in (aka not making children available)?

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Last Edit: by Marco.

Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96874

From what you described for child 1, alternating Saturdays from 13/10/18 would mean 19/01/19 i.e tomorrow is the next scheduled court ordered contact. It is clear in that order that points (a) and (b) is a fixed schedule that mum has already agreed too.

If she agrees more contact time for you under point (c), then that is in addition to and not instead of points (a) and (b).

I think in the first instance, perhaps speaking to her to clarify the above points may help her see how the order works. She may have not worked out in her mind how the dates fall, or that she agreed to an extra date that fell under point (c).

It may be a misunderstanding on her part that has caused her to say "no" to your step dad. I think this could be worked out by just going over the dates with her for points (a) and (b) and helping her see where last Saturday falls under point (c).

Your step father does have a legal basis to collect child 1 tomorrow as the order states. So.....if she does refuse, then she would be breaching the order. But it seems to me she would be breaching due to lack of comprehension of how the order works in a practical sense rather then being malicious.

Try not to escalate this, especially since things have been going well. Instead be diplomatic and try to work through the dates and explain to her what I have outlined above. This is your chance to show the court and Cafcass that you can navigate around problems and put your children first. That will be a positive for you in the ongoing proceedings. You wouldn't want to go back to the judge and say things you agreed by consent fell apart over a misunderstanding.

Good luck.
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Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96878

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Thank you for your detailed reply.

My gut feeling is that someone has told her, that it's bad for her cause that she let me have extra time and is back peddling; maybe trying to get me to breach order by constantly having wrong weekends. The section 7 hearing due next month.

It's all really strange, last week a mutual friend that's firmly in my camp showed me that's she's been spamming her FB with posts about how difficult it is for mothers to look after kids. So I decided to try my hand and get the extra weekend. She very keenly agreed. Now sudden stone wall on ordered visit.

I've advised my step dad to be all sweet and puppy dog tails tomorrow. I'll have him wired in case she cries harassment or whatever. This is a girl that up to last month was accusing me of rape and being an useless father.

If she's not in tomorrow, do I call up the court Monday morning? I'm not sure of next steps, only recently became self repping.

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Last Edit: by Marco.

Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96898

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You can't call the court regarding this = they won't do anything about it. It is something you would have to raise at the next hearing.

When this 'extra' weekend was discussed, was it very clear for all parties that this was 'extra' time and not a variation to the schedule?

You're in a very grey area here as she could claim a variation to the schedule and thereby avoiding a breach.

Try to get things back on track and pick your battles wisely.

Any further difficulties, you can advise the court at the next hearing.
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I have several years experience supporting parents in family proceedings as a McKenzie Friend. I am, however, not a lawyer or barrister and my responses are based on my own opinions or experiences of the family court.

Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96909

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It should have been very obvious, my step dad asked her (as I can't due to non-mol) if we could have that weekend as an extra visit and she agreed. I'm assuming parties mean Me and Mother only?
Thankfully it all blew over, she handed over the children yesterday and today without issue.

Is it useful to say in my section 7 hearing that Mother agreed to extra visits?

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Last Edit: by Marco.

Potential order breach tomorrow 1 year 9 months ago #96918

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I think it would be useful to mention that, it shows that she is willing to progress contact. You could mention that there was some confusion about the extra time, and in the circumstances a well defined final order would help to avoid that.

Great news that the scheduled contact went ahead... she must have thought better of it.

All the best
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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

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