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TOPIC: Unhappy with CAO and court come

Unhappy with CAO and court come 4 weeks 4 hours ago #95716

  • NK82
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My partner litigant in person
His ex walked in with barrister this time.
Had his final hearing yesterday for a CAO
Not see young children for 11 months.

Her solicitor conveniently left his vital statements and evidence out the bundle. We did supplimentary bundles and told to take with him. But they all refused to take it yesterday even though it was filed in august to all parties.

He is really disappointed with the order and the way he was treated.
Everyone in court was apparently off sick they were short staffed and they got 2 (little old women as he described) ladies on the magistrates.
He said they were a complete walk over, listening to and took recommendations from the barrister over the cafcass S7 which was completely favourable to him and rightly so.

Cafcass were totally on my parters side and argued his point throughout but the barrister still got the final say.
My partner stuck to his guns and stood his ground throughout too, refusing to accept but he got told this is it and this is your order.

Previously he gave in a negative drink and drug test back in June. (He is a Social drinker)

However they pushed for another drink test in 4 weeks so it's in the order.
Unnecessary and this was pointed out by cafcass too.

Alternative weekends were recommended in S7 and he's requested half the holidays too in parent plan.
Mum/barrister only wanted 12pm sat til 12pm Sunday so 24 hrs a fortnight is in the order.

Progression is tedious but a little understandable due to 11 months they've not seen one another,  just think it's to long.

4 months in a contact centre
Supervised then supported.
States in order to start next Saturday 1st dec but centres booked up til January. (Courts should know this, her barrister even rang the suggested centre yesterday)

Then 3 months of alternative saturday days only hours vary.
Then June next year (if they ever get a contact centre date) He will get his first over night.
Which is only allowed to be at his address and not his partner (myself)

If he wants to have any extra special occassion days or longer contact etc they are to resolve between them.
Which is nuts and that's why they are in court in the first place as she's hostile and difficult.

We both feel he's been treated unfairly due to the magistrates he got.
Previous hearings the magistrates have seen what's going on, through the lies and how she is thinking of herself not her children and they've not been so kind to her.
But yesterday's was more concerned about keeping mum happy.

Obviously he's happy he's getting contact finally!  
But seems all the magistrates did yesterday was put the ball in her court and give her all the control back she's always had over him.
Really thought he'd be at a stage after all this where he was no longer walking on egg shells around his ex wife.

I know of violent exes and drug and drink abusers that get a fairer order than this.

Why is he being treated like he's such a risk!?
Can anything be done if you are unhappy with outcome and order?
Anyone else had similar then got more with not too much trouble?

I have suggested get through it until your 24 hr weekends start then go to her for more, which she will laugh about, so mediation it will be then most likely court.

Should have been jumping from the roof tops yesterday but it got us both so down, as we know we are going to have to put up with her crap again.
Hes done everything asked of him and he's a bloody good guy who just wants the opportunity to be a dad again and spend quality time with his children. 
24 hours a fortnight doesn't even give them time for a day trip :(

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 6 days ago #95721

Hi There,

This doesn't seem very fair and although it would have been a hassle, it may have been better if the hearing had been postponed to another date when they didn't have the sickness.

I don't know what can be done, though I would imagine that there would be an appeals process, it may be worth calling the courts and asking them if this is an option.

Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge will be online soon and they can advise you.

I would though start by calling the courts and asking about the appeals process and asking them to log on the file that you are looking to pursue this, sometimes there are time scales that you have to meet in order to be able to appeal.

GTTS

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 6 days ago #95724

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Thank you for your reply

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 6 days ago #95734

There is an appeals process but I don’t know much about it. I’ve heard of cases where the appeal was heard within a month and others within a year.

I’m sorry for what he’s going through.

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 5 days ago #95763

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Thank you for your reply.

Appealing sounds like it may well be unsuccessful from readings others experiences.

What do you think if he was to apply for an urgent hearing in hope a DJ was to look over magistrates decision?
Growing more concerned that the history of his case was not brought up, the difficulty and hostile behaviour of ex was not recognised.

He feels the magistrates did not read paper work at all including the S7.
Nothing from S7 has been granted and his parent plan not even considered.
The S7 says he is no risk to the children, yet he's been put on a high risk supervision contact for 4 months? Seems crazy.
The biggest priblen is getting the supervised contact, he cannot get a slot until mid January.
How cruel to order contact and still have to wait,
I think it's disgusting. 11 months he's been waiting for this order.

Mother gets to dictate anymore contact in future like birthdays etc
But if they'd read the evidence paperwork they would have seen this will never happen unsupervised and the reason they are in court over contact.
She's very unreasonable and controlling.
The previous magistrates in previous hearings could see this too.

The whole order is very grey.
Mostly left up to him begging her and walking on egg shells for any more contact with his children.

100% he knows all its gained him is future court applications. Something none of us need. Just want to move on from even the word court.

Do you think this is worthy of an urgent hearing?
Or likely to just fall on deaf ears?

Should he just suck up the order and plough on?
I see this as giving up :(

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 5 days ago #95764

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I think,you may well have grounds for an appeal, did the mags give reasons for not following the cafcass recommendations at the hearing? Did you receive written reasons for not following CAFCASS
recommendations within 72 hours of the order being made?

Here’s a link to a previous thread, where this was discussed and a link to some further info

www.dad.info/forum/legal-eagle/49950-app...t-order?limitstart=0

So sorry you had such poor service.

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Not legally trained... just plenty of experience and common sense!

Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 5 days ago #95767

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Thanks again Mojo. Big shout out for all your prompt messages and good advice.

There are reasons yes.
Nothing on cafcass though and why his professional judgement and recommendations nog followed.

The reasons are all backed up with agree with mother.
Reading it again it's certainly very grey and mostly left up to mum to agree for future stages to progress.
Shes already made it clear only sticking to what's on paper so she won't add to it without a variation being drawn up by court anyway by sounds of it.

Although mags have said things to be done in stages.. so they must all know they'll be another court case.
Despite magistrates commenting that doing it this way it will prevent further applications to court disrupting their lives.

If only they'd read statements and evidence they would have seen her hostility and the way she controls him and dangles the children.

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 5 days ago #95771

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I would say go for it to be honest, read the link to the article thoroughly, look at the case law that the article suggests, the welfare checklist and the Practice Direction and apply it to your own case... see where it takes you.

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 5 days ago #95772

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Here’s an update from the poster of the other thread

www.dad.info/forum/legal-eagle/50072-upd...d-arrangements-order

You’ll find a link to the Practice Direction in that thread too.

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Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 4 days ago #95792

Magistrates are a Joke!

As per others have said, with the S7 report and CAFCASS supporting that you’re not a safeguarding risk and should have contact it sounds like the Magistrates have not done their job correctly, ask for it to be elevated to a county court judge.

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Dad-i-d

i'm not legally trained....i'm just a Dad going through hell to see his child grow up and become a decent man and human being.....my goal is simple...to be the father to my child like my father is to me...my hero.

Started this battle 2010.....who knows when the fighting will stop!

Parental Alienation is real and is abuse!

Unhappy with CAO and court come 3 weeks 1 day ago #95846

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Was he cross examined? Did he cross examine her and Cafcass?

If not, that should be grounds for appeal as that isn't a fair hearing.

Magistrates often don't have a clue what they're doing and you're at the mercy of how good the legal adviser is.....

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I have several years experience supporting parents in family proceedings as a McKenzie Friend. I am, however, not a lawyer or barrister and my responses are based on my own opinions or experiences of the family court.

Unhappy with CAO and court come 2 weeks 5 days ago #95919

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I think we’re all concerned that he didn’t get a fair hearing, what did you decide to do NK?

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