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TOPIC: Ex wife lying about overnights

Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 4 months ago #84320

Hi all, I'm writing to ask for some advice regarding my csa payments and proving the number of overnight access i have with my kids. Basicly my ex wife has been lying to the csa for over two years saying I take them less than 52 nights a year. This year after my review the payments went up again I decided to contact the csa and was shocked to learn that they have me down as having no shared care and have done from when the case was opened in 2015. After many telephone conversations, writing letters, supplying bank statements and lawyers letters I have been told that she is still maintaining I take them for less than 52 nights when the truth of it is I have them one night every weekend, one evening mid week, a full week in summer, several extra nights through Xmas and many many other extra nights at the weekends throughout the course of the year which clearly puts me in the 52-103 bracket but the csa are saying the only way I can change this is to get a court order stating number of overnights. I really can't believe how wrong the system is and how they can just take her word for this. She won't discuss it with me at and all I get from her when I try now is "speak to my lawyer". I really don't know what to do but I think I'm going to have to get a court order but this a lot of hassle for every one and another expense for me but she doest care as she gets legal aid which is another system failure as I don't qualify for that because of my income. Yet another system that doesnt take into account your out goings and only looks at your top line of income. Right now my disposable income for myself after bills but before i buy food is only slightly more than the payments im making to her. How is this even right? It seems to me that all the systems are wrong and the harder you work the less help you get.

So my questions are
1. Are there any other ways that I can prove my point without going through lawyers and courts?

2. If I apply for a court order how long does it take roughly and what sort of costs roughly would I be looking at?

3. How do I go about getting a court order for this sort of thing?

4. Will they give me a court order just for purposes of proving to the csa how many nights i have with my kids?

5. Do the kids get dragged through court if do go down the route of a court order? (Last thing I would want for them)

Many thanks in advance.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 4 months ago #84328

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As far as I'm aware, where there is a dispute about the number of overnights a child stays, the CMS take a default position and calculate at 1 overnight per week. Here's a link to in their guidelines and you'll find the information on page 28/29. I think.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/upl...hild-maintenance.pdf

If that's the case I would push them to take the default position, court should always be a last resort, can cost thousands and takes months, sometimes years.

You would need to attempt mediation first, and courts will not involve themselves in maintenance issues. So as you see, if you can sort this out without court involvement, that would be the way to go.

The CMS have an appeals/complaints process which you can use...but I hope that if you quote their own guidelines to them they will agree to go with the one night reduction, which is where you are with it anyway.

All the best

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DadTalk Moderator... I'm not legally trained and my responses are my own views based on my experiences of the family court. I have plenty of common sense and can offer you emotional support and guide you to answers.

Last Edit: by Mojo.

Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 4 months ago #84330

Thanks for your help.
Unfortunately she refuses to talk with me about situation and has refused mediation so sorting it out between us isn't an option anymore but I will have a look over the guidelines on the link that you posted and phone to them tomorrow and post the outcome.

Once again, thank you.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 4 months ago #84345

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...if you wanted to make a court application to get a Child Arrangements Order, which would specify how many days you have your kids, you would have to attend mediation first, it would be the mediator that contacts her to ask her to attend and only if she refuses, or mediation fails, will the mediator sign the form to enable court action.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 4 months ago #84361

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The unfortunate fact is that even with a child arrangement order for overnight stays, the CMS won't necessarily take this as evidence of how many nights a child stays with you. As mojo says, the CMS guidelines say that if there is no agreement, then they may take the position of assumed shared care and reduce it by 1/7th, so this is by far your best chance.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84753

Thank you both for your input

I read the guide lines from the link previously. I quoted it to the csa but they said that it only defaults to one night if i said i had them 3 or 4 nights and she was saying zero or 1. What a farce!! I should have just lied to them from the start like she has been.

With the mediation thing it was myself that asked if she would talk through mediation but her reply was, "speak to my lawyer" I asked for her lawyers details and she closed the door on me. Text her and asked for lawyers details..... no reply. Now I'm waiting for csa to make their decision on the case which I know will go in her favour, but ive been told by a decent guy who works there to request a mandatory reconsideration afterwards, which he says I will probably lose too, but if I do I can take it to a tribunal which I should win with pictures and text message eveidence etc. What a carryon to go through and I know this may all seem petty on my behalf as the difference between shared care of one night and no shared care isn't much but im paying 85 quid a week and this month which only has 4 weeks in it im left with £44.25 per week to play with after all bills( a chunk of which are debt we accrued together but all in my name. DOH!!) csa payments and food/essentials shoping an extra 52 quid (average) in my pocket would make a big difference. She works part time, gets money from me, child tax credits, council tax reduction, rent reduction and has a civil partner contributing too but In a call to the Csa this week she was quoted as having said "yes we have an agreement in place but he never picks them up when he is supposed to" Nonsense!!. I always there for them, and nearly always early except when there's been an accident on the motorway that i travel on. The system needs to be fairer and also considder outgoings or both parents household incomes amd outgoings and work it out to leave both with an even and decent living standerd because they're leaving me with no standard of living at all right now. I need a new fridge, new boiler, new brake discs on my car and cant afford to replace any of them, I also can't afford to maintain the house I live in and feel terrible when I have my kids because I can't afford to buy them the things they ask for. And best of all I do earn a good wage. I just f***ed up by getting into so much debt when we were together which was to give her and the kids what they wanted and now I'm literally left with nothing. Just about had enough tbh. P.s im in a trust deed aswell and it was her that met someone else before leaving me so it's not like ive given her a reason to screw me like this. She's just money hungry and only cares about herself. CSA and EX=living hell.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84754

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I'm really sorry to hear this...I'm surprised that they won't take the default position, it sometimes seems that they make it up as they go along. I'm sceptical that it's as they say, otherwise it would be written in the guidelines too! I would go and see your MP, you'd be surprised what they can do with a phone call....I think you should photocopy/screen shot the relevant points in their guidelines and show the MP when you go along.

As far as mediation I s concerned, you don't need details of her lawyer to set this up, just find a mediation service and go along for a chat about your issues, they will then contact her directly and ask her to attend.

All the best

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84764

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I don't suppose that debt is in the form of loans (rather than credit card) - if so, and it was for the benefit of the family, then the CMS may well take it into account - it won't be a huge reduction, but anything is better than nothing at all.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84765

Mojo wrote: I'm really sorry to hear this...I'm surprised that they won't take the default position, it sometimes seems that they make it up as they go along. I'm sceptical that it's as they say, otherwise it would be written in the guidelines too! I would go and see your MP, you'd be surprised what they can do with a phone call....I think you should photocopy/screen shot the relevant points in their guidelines and show the MP when you go along.

As far as mediation I s concerned, you don't need details of her lawyer to set this up, just find a mediation service and go along for a chat about your issues, they will then contact her directly and ask her to attend.

All the best


Thanks again Mojo.
I have queried them to quite an extent on it now and keep coming up against a brick wall. They must be sick of me by now lol but I cant give up. Its the principal behind the whole thing and that fact that this is going to be getting paid for the foreseeable future probably another 15 years or so and it keeps going up. So it needs put right now. Funny thing is they actually believe me but are saying their hands are tied.
Hopefully your suggestions to see my local MP and find a mediation service will help. I will be arranging an appointment with both asap.
Much appreciated.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84766

actd wrote: I don't suppose that debt is in the form of loans (rather than credit card) - if so, and it was for the benefit of the family, then the CMS may well take it into account - it won't be a huge reduction, but anything is better than nothing at all.


Thanks acdt... your is much apreciated and helpful too.
The debts were in the form of both cards and loans and the loans kept getting bigger as I consolidated both loans and cards several times while we were together. I will discuss this with the csa next and see what happens.

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Ex wife lying about overnights 3 years 3 months ago #84825

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I'd also consider contacting stepchange.org.uk - they are a debt management charity, and if you are struggling with the debt (or think you might do in the future), they can help, the sooner the better. They may have information on how CSA/CMS deal with it also, and it's free advice.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Stressed_dad

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Ex wife lying about overnights 1 month 1 week ago #109641

I am very sorry to hear this and very sorry that she doesn't want to talk to you, dialogue sometimes leads to mutual agreement.

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