Hi
I'd be very grateful for some much sought information before I contact a solicitor
20 years ago I had a brief relationship lasting several months, the relationship was very up/down and on/off due to the fact my partner at that time had a lot of personal issues, she ended up pregnant, she then 3 weeks after discovering this decided to end the relationship completely.
I tried for several months to make contact via phone and letters, but had little response only to say that she was not interested in rekindling the relationship and that she did not want me in the child's life
It was basically then left at that, I moved on, married and had 2 children of my own, this resulted in divorce after 12 years together but we have stayed amicable and I have since the divorce paid regular maintenance without the aid of involvement from the C.S.A as the payments were discussed between myself and ex wife and it is basically a private agreement
However, out of the blue, 14 years ago, my gran received a letter from the C.S.A on behalf of my partner from before she was trying to make contact as her/our daughter has some illness and wanted to know if I had such symptoms in my family, at this time I was informed by the C.S.A that they were not after any form of maintenance as my ex partner did not want this, I was given a contact number for her so I rang to confirm there were no symptoms in my family, we had a brief chat, I did ask about the daughter and if it was possible to have contact, she said no, (I have had a DNA test and been told the daughter is mine and apparently been told, although no proof, my name is on the birth certificate)
Contact was 5-6 years ago, and after the iniatial contact I heard nothing more for about 8-10 months, when I out of the blue started getting demands from the C.S.A for maintenance, I contested this explained the situation and their iniatial letter of contact, which they informed me they had no record of!
In the past 5-6 years I have had to endure countless letters of demand, been verbally informed on the phone that I will be fined and possibly sent to prison, I did have contact with the mother briefly 3 years ago and again asked for contact with the daughter but again was told no
Basically I'm still being hounded by the C.S.A and have been told I have to pay £80 per week, but surely after 14 years and then suddenly the daughters mother puts a claim in, I've had no contact whatsoever with the daughter, is she entitled to do this?
Are they trying to claim a backdated lump sum from you or weekly payments?
If it's weekly payments, judging by the timescales you've quoted, the child will probably be too old for maintenance to be claimed by now?
I have been quoted to pay either a lump sum of £18000 or a weekly payment of £80, this has increased over the last 5-6 years from the iniatial time of contact, the child in question is now 20 years s old, and as I've done some research over the past 12 months due to continuous hounding by the C.S.A I have found out that the child in question is in full time work and does not live with her mum
I have explained the situation to the C.S.A many times and have had no response apart from the standard letters they send out demanding money, my question to them is, and always has been, why has she waited 14 years to put a claim in to obtain money from me, how has she lived and brought the child up financially without me prior to this, and why has she been allowed to put a claim in after all this time?
I would certainly get a statement from the CSA regarding the arrears, put in a subject access request for all documentation and put in a complaint
https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance/complaints-and-appeals
I do wonder when this claim was started - it's old enough that it could be pre-2003, I'm not certain about this, but I believe the system then was that the state paid out benefits to the mother and then tried to claim back off the father. If that's the case, the money wouldn't be going to the mother, but to the state. You certainly need to have all of the information from them about this, but unfortunately, in cases where the father is refusing to pay, there have been instances where a jail sentence has been imposed (they can also take away your driving licence) and that still doesn't wipe out the debt.
The claim was made approximately around 2011, the child in question was about 14....
OK, in which case I would still go through the steps I suggest.
I appreciate your time with this matter, but, I've been going through the motions with the CSA for the past 5-6 years, I've already been threatened on the phone about fines and prison, and even though I'm contesting this I did, several months ago offer to make a payment of £50 a month as that is all I can afford, I was basically laughed at, told that's not enough and they demanded then, that I pay over £400 a month or risk a jail sentence
They know my situation and my financial affairs, and they also know that I make a voluntary payment of £200 a month to my ex wife
The point here is, I've never had anything to do with, or seen my other daughter as I was refused this by the mother, the relationship ended 3 weeks into the pregnancy, there's been no contact until 14 years ago, to demand money, surely this cannot be right or even lawful?
Surely by now, as 5-6 years is a long time, if they felt they had a case they would of gone to my employer and deducted money from my salary years ago? I think maybe because it's been so long, an unusual case and the fact they have changed to a different name they are perhaps going through the motions and trying to close the case out? perhaps going as far as threats etc to frighten me into paying???
Exactly what are you contesting?
If a case was opened in 2011 when the child was 14 then payment from that point until the child leaves full time non advanced education ( or reaches 20 ) is required.
One bit that you are not clear on from reading your posts is mentioning contact/access/seeing the child - and payment in the same breath.
In law ( as in literally there are lines of law that cover this ) - Child Access and Child Maintenance are NOT related at ALL - and they do not impact each other.
What this means is:
- Parent With Care ( PWC ) can't prevent Non Resident ( NRP ) parent being in contact with child legally
- PWC can't prevent NRP from having access due to non payment of maintenance
- NRP is not granted access through paying child maintenance
At the end of the day you could of chosen to take the mother to court and get granted visitation rights - and unless the mother had stunningly good reasons to prevent it.
So in any sense of contact your case is not unusual - because it has literally nothing to do with it.
You may not like that - or not agree with it - but that is how the law is laid out and how the CSA/CMS implements it.
Why/how they did not pursue the money at the time 5/6 years ago - who knows - but you have to be very clear as to what you are contesting. CSA or the CMS have no legal framework that relates to "child access" and no ability to deal with that at all - they just can't within their remit.
If you spend time contesting the wrong thing it will just make everything feel more complicated - keep to the simplest elements that each department can handle and deal with.
If you wanted to contest the maintenance vs no access thing then you would at the least need a judge to hear a case - and you would need some element of law to assit you. I am not sure how that would progress now as he child is now 20 the court could not compel her to see you anyway.
The reason I am disputing this case is purely based on the details I've already laid out in previous posts....
My point is, and the reason I'm asking for help/information is because it's got to the point now where I'm being threatened with action of all sorts, including fines and prison, I'm as iof today seeking some legal information as regardless of the fact that I am the father, I've had no contact with my daughter for 20 years s, in reality I do not know her and have never seen or met her, I've asked to have access but been told no by the mother, what I need to ask, and have been asking for 5-6 years, but never get a response is why is the mother allowed to put a claim in after 14 years and expect the father to pay £80 a week? The csa need to be asking the relevant questions to the mother....how have you survived financially for that amount of time, why wait 14 years to put a claim in? I myself have not seen the mother in 20 years, this is how it was left and how she wanted it left, to basically go our separate ways, which is fine, but why 14 years later, out of the blue, put a claim in and expect me to go along with it?
The daughter in question is now 20 years old and in full time employment....the system, for some fathers is just a [censored] take as we all seem to get tarred with the same brush hence why some cases are unusual and need looking into to gain all the facts from both sides, not John st send a letter out and demand money
The law is what it is and allows the PWC to do what they have done.
The System is far from perfect in every respect ( the system can equally fail to get money from NRP's who should pay but just won't).
However in your case you need to decide what you want to do.
Any unfairness etc you CAN NOT put to the csa/cms - they have guidelines and rules they have to follow and they have little ability to deviate from that. Even if the staff agree with you they are very limited. It is a bit like arguing with a shop checkout employee that something is not in stock, there is little they can do, they have to follow rules of their job.
You can put your case to mps etc to change the law(s) but that would not change your case.
Alternatively you could try and pursue your case as a test case through the courts to get a sufficiently high ruling to both change your case and change the law. That will take years and a lot of money however.
Like I said you have to figure out what to contest and who with.
The law as is currently means you are liable and it means the PWC can make that claim and it means that contact with the child (or not) has no bearing on the financial side.
Unless you can find mistakes the csa/cms has made in breach of their own rules then you have no redress.
DavidChannon is absolutely right, the CSA/CMS don't do unfairness and PWCs can open a claim for maintenance at any time, as long as they're eligible.
Even with court ordered maintenance in place, this can be overridden after 12 months. We have had members that have given all sorts of financial concessions as part of a divorce settlement, with the understanding that it covered future maintenance, only for their court order to be overturned a year later.
The fact that you haven't had a relationship/contact with your child has no bearing on the case that has been opened and the CSA/CMS have the power to pursue you through the courts, which includes penalties such as prison and fines. It often isn't fair, but it's the way the system works.
As far as the mothers reasons; she may have hit hard times at the point she opened the claim, but she won't be questioned on her reasons, so you will have to let go of that way of thinking. She's put a claim in because she can, its as simple as that.
I would definitely ask for a full breakdown of how they arrived at the amount of arrears involved, I think the fact that you were paying for other children should be factored in to their calculation, but I'm no expert. If you feel strongly enough; that you feel they have their calculations wrong, that they should have attempted to contact you at the onset of the claim, have your day in court to contest it, or make an official complaint about their handling of your case.
All the best