[Solved] Advice taking children on holiday

HI Flatliner

I read somewhere on one of the legal responces something about if you are on the childs brith cert then you have parental responcibility and that the other partner can't make any decisions re the child with out your consent. Guess this works bothways so you can't take the child abroad without mums consent.

Hi Flatliner

Sorry to hear about your situation. We will get our legal experts over at the Childrens Legal Centre to log on and respond with some advice.

Thank you, this is a very very good site, straight to the point with correct advice / stance.

I just want to know am I going to hurt the children more by taking it to court or am i going to be told that my wife has all the cards and can deal them as she feels fit?

Thanks again, sharing this and reading others responses is a great help....in some kind of way i think.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for contacting the Children’s Legal Centre, an independent charity concerned with law and policy affecting children and young people.

At present your children live with your wife, which makes her the resident parent and gives her the ability to control all contact until your children are old enough to make this decision for themselves. Although the mother should be reasonable, she is not legally obliged to allow you any contact with the children.

With regards to the holiday, as the children live with their mother, you will need her consent to take them abroad at all.

If the mother is being difficult with contact or with regards to this holiday, the first thing that we suggest would be to attempt mediation and see if an agreement can be reached between you.
The contact number for National Family Mediation us 01392 271610, and their website is www.nfm.org.uk .

If mediation is unsuccessful or the mother refuses to attend, the only other option you will have will be to make an application to court for a court order.

Generally the order that you would apply for would be a contact order, however this can take some time to get and is unlikely to be finalised prior to the dates you wish to take the children abroad.

In this case it may be necessary for you not only to apply for a contact order for set times of seeing the children that can not be altered by the mother, but also for a Specific Issue Order. A Specific Issue Order allows you to ask the court to decide on a specific thing, such as whether or not you should be able to take your children abroad.
If you decide to apply for this order you may wish to mark the application as urgent and put a brief note about the dates that you have this holiday booked so the court are aware of time constraints.

To apply for either order you are able to use a solicitor, or you can make the application yourself and act as a ‘Litigant in Person’.
To make the application yourself, you can download the forms from www.hmcs.gov.uk . The forms you require are C100, CB1 and CB3.

The C100 is the application for an order, and both orders can be asked for on one application. Forms CB1 and CB3 are guidance on the court process, how to serve the forms and other such relevant information. When you file the forms at court there will be a filing fee, the amount of which the court will advise you.

The matter will go to court and the judge would make any orders that he believes to be in the best interests of the children. In most cases a holiday will be allowed unless it is felt that there is a risk of harm to the children or an abduction risk.
It is very rare that contact is not granted to a non resident parent and usually it is only denied when there are serious concerns for the children’s safety.

If a court order is granted this is legally binding and the mother must comply. If the mother does breach the court order then there are serious penalties for this.

We hope you find this information useful. Should you require any further advice please contact the Child Law Advice Line on 0845 120 2948.

Kind Regards

Children’s Legal Centre

Thankyou so so very much, has given me spirit. Thanks for you time in responding to this matter.

I'm am in a very similar situation to you, the main differences are that before booking the holiday (end of Aug last year) I contacted my ex and checked that it would be ok and got a "yes" reply. Come March, I had some concerns as to whether she would change her mind or not I requested that she confirmed via my solicitor in writing that she was more than happy for my daughter to come with us (it is a big family holiday, me, my new fiancée, my parents, my sister, her husband and their 3 kids). On Monday 6th July, exactly 4 weeks before we're due to travel, she has dropped the bomb shell that not only can I not take my daughter on holiday, but she is also stopping my access to her. She has no justifiable reason to do this as my daughter has always enjoyed her weekend visits to us and there has not been anything to suggest kidnapping. She has also told me that she has taken steps to cancel my daughters passport! We are going to see a solicitor tomorrow (3 days after the news) and hopefully we will be able to get an emergency court order for the holiday. Fingers crossed that we can get it to court in time!!

Just to let you all know, my solicitor managed to get us into court yesterday (21st July, 12 days after seeing her and 4 days of that was giving my ex the chance to change her mind!). We now have a court order granting us permission to take my daughter on holiday, and setting out contact on a fortnightly basis at weekends (I can't do week day evenings as we live so far apart). My solicitors worked really hard and were worth every penny. It might be an emotional struggle, but I would encourage anyone to fight to the end, it's worth it!!! 😀 D D D D

😀 Great news dburst. We are so happy for you and your daughter. Its always good to hear about a positive outcome.

We hope you have a great holiday full of life long memories and don't forget to send us at Dadtalk Towers a postcard. 😉

Update

as of today I am no nearer taking the children away or seeing them for longer over the holidays. I applied to court for a specific order, (should have been yesterday for the court hearing), wife said she could not make that date and was awaiting legal funding to have her solicitor with her. Have had a new date now but that was when I was supposed to be taking them away so thats no good. Wife has now stated that my son (5) has emotional problems when he spends more than one night away from her (im not surpised as he is told continuously that he is the man of the house, she needs him as she gets upset when he isnt at home with her, has him in her bed every night and tells him his family is just her and not me) I dont think he does show any signs not when he is with me. I had a weekend camping planed but now she has booked a day trip for them so they cant go. I work full time, so she knows its mainly weekends that I can see the children so she goes and books trips and says yes to all the parties she can so that I feel I never get any quality time with them. I was told by the mediator (off the records) "that my x is one of the worst cases she has ever seen"....Great 🙁 (

I hope the courts listen to me as a father and not to the woman who calls her self a mother but then uses the children as a weapon of revenge / controle.....THAT IS NOT A MOTHER.....

Don't give up Flatliner - sounds like you are making progress... Its a long term game and you will have to fight it again next year if you don't sort it not.... We've been camping during October half term before and whilst it was a bit colder was no less fun... come to think of it if you are doing weekends you could do sometime in September too... Keep us in touch with how its going

Buzz

Wrote a letter to court explaining problems with the later date for the court hearing and they have come up trumps, and moved it to this thursday 😀

Wife has to attend or a ruling will be made without her. I know there is a good chance I will not get a definative answer as Im sure she has been informed that if she says no to my request that a CAFCAS report may be made (16 weeks to produce one at moment) so not holding my breath.

Its odd that a small thing like the courts moving the date forward has given me the biggest boost, it made me think just how low I (and many other fathers) had felt in the whole chain of humanity as a seperated father.

Great news - well done! Keep us posted! And keep your chin up !

Buzz

Thanks Buzz

UPDATE

Went to court (remember this was my application to the court), Judge pays total attention to wife, spends 20 minutes telling us how he shouldnt be here as he is retired, that he bought up his children and we should bring up ours, No CAFCAS officer available so he would try and sort it. GREAT I THOUGHT. He continued to say its about trust, building trust....... (couldnt agree more) but x wife Oh no, pure hate for me. He asked me "did I agree not to take them out of the country with out agreement from her or the courts", I said yes as what kind of father do you think I am and why do you think I have bought this before the courts to do exactly that. He then spoke about contact (which has been happening regular) he then writes this down as one night a week. He then tells me I have taken enough of the courts time and I should apply for a full hearing if not happy (which I have). So I have now a judgement stating i will not take the childen out of the country without his or X permission and I can have the children one night a week......... FEEL AS IF IVE BEEN WELL AND TRULY BEEN HAD OVER. it does say by consent on the order so hey lets see how much deeper I can dig this hole that seems to ever deepening around me. (for the love of my children I feel like a criminal)

Hi all

Received my wifes statement of response that she filed with the court, saying basicaly I was unfit to take my children abroad, my son was so upset when he returns to her after stoping with me for his one night stop overs that it was so obviously that he missed her (he didnt want to go home was more to the point) and so on and so on...........

😀 D D D D D

So the question is why has this cost so much time, money and grief (upset and pressure for the children from my wife)................MY WIFES and HER SOLICITOR thats what. My wife as she is bitter, her solicitor as she sees pay day stamped all over this. The solicitor must have known that I would be able to take the children on holiday so why send me, the courts and wife letter after letter, advising my wife (X to be soon I hope) and then for her barrister to turn around to me before going before the judge saying "I have advised my client you will be able to have the holiday" ???? MONEY MAKING SCHEME FOR ALL INVLOVED I THINK

Any how Im so so happy for the children, one week together, cant wait for October Half term 😀

Go FLATLINER!!!!! Awesome - well done you!

What's the budget - we have to find you the best weeks holiday ever! Although as we always say - kids just want time with us so i'm sure whatever you do will be great in their eyes!!

Best Buzz

Thanks Buzz

Yes im sure its going to be a great holiday.

For all dads out there going through tough times, yes it feels so bad at the time, (I have never felt like a criminal, I did feel that I was GUILTY until proven INNOCENT) stick at it, never give up and always think of your children when times get tough.

Thanks again.

The on going saga of a weeks holiday............IF ANYONE CAN HELP, I WOULD BE GLAD OF SOME ADVICE.

Its taken me 12ths of difficult times to be able to take my children for one weeks holiday (has now been set by order of the courts) 🙂 Last night at 9pm I receive a call from my daughter, very upset telling me that her mum will not allow them to take any item out of the house including clothes, toys or belongings to go on holiday. CAN SHE DO THIS? as the main carer (auguable) she must have a duty of care for the children? Before I go back to the courts does anyone have any advice? I pay the mortgage and maintenace to her for the children (even though she will not move on with divorce, as she thinks it will stop me and my new woman moving on with life) so we have no agreement. So should I stop this months money and spend it directly on the children so that they have clothes on theire backs for the holiday?

Hi Flatliner

Wow thats some directional stanch your ex is taking! I'm not sure what to say really! 😯

Def would not advise that you stop payments as that will not go down well in court and could be seen as playing silly games of [censored] for tat. 😉

Do you think your x said it in the heat of the moment to your daughter? Can you talk to your x direclty about it? Ask your other child what they heard too.

I'll ask our legal experts to have a look and see if she can take this course of action.

That's stunningly appalling.

If you are paying through the CSA, then I don't think you can divert money away for a month, I'm not sure what the situation is if you pay by any other arrangement.

My advice in this instance is that you buy your daughter what she needs, but when the holiday is over, keep everything you have bought at your house for next time. This is far cheaper than going back to court.

I'd also start to keep a diary of these occurrences (even if sometimes only trivial) - if you do need to go back to court in the future, it gives you an accurate story of events, and I believe the courts do place some reliance on this sort of diary. If your daughter can keep one as well (unknown to her mother), then even better.

Dear Sir

It is unfortunate that the court was not able to put in place an order in time for the holiday that you planned to take the children on. However, in order to stop incidents such as this happening in the future then you may wish to consider making an application to the court for a contact order.

A contact order sets out very clearly when you should have the children in your care. It is also possible to put holiday dates into the order to ensure that this is not an issue of contention year on year. A contact order is a legally binding order which your wife will not be able to decide whether or not to follow. If your wife does not follow the order then you can apply to the court for the order to be enforced.

If you wish to take the children out of the UK during your holiday dates then you must still seek the consent of your wife to do so. If you feel that your wife will not consent to you taking the children abroad then it may be prudent to ask the court to address this issue at the same time as part of the contact proceedings.

Penalties for enforcement of a court order range from unpaid work and fines all the way up to changing the residence to the other parent or, in very serious circumstances, imprisonment. In order to apply to the court you will need to obtain a C100 form from your local county court. In our previous post on this thread we described how to make an application to the court for a Specific Issue Order. You should follow the same process however make it clear on the C100 form that you are applying for a contact order.

The court makes a decision based on what they feel is in the best interests of the child. There is a presumption that contact is in the best interests of the child and therefore, unless there are concerns about a risk to the child in your care, it is likely that an order will be granted. It is difficult to advise what level of contact will be granted as this will be a decision for the court to make based on what they feel is in the best interests of your children.

Please feel free to call the Child Law Advice Line if you need any clarification regarding this advice. Our number is 08088 020 008.

Kind regards

Children’s Legal Centre

Thanks for replies,

She will not move divorce on, so no CSA involved yet. I have always paid each month off my own back.

Its more the way she goes about things......"telling my daughter that she canot have anything from the house to take on holiday as she shouldnt be leaving her mum".......I think its in the hope she scares my daughter into imagining herself on the ferry with no clothes and so she then does not want to go...........If she had said it to me I hope I could have reasoned with her, but she will not. SO MY QUESTION IS "am in my rights to go and buy the children some clothes (keeping the receipts) and deduct that amount from what I pay her? If so I will write to her stating this and do just that. ANY ADVICE PLEASE????

Hopefully, the Children's Legal Centre can confirm this, but as I see it, you are under no obligation whatsoever, at the moment, to pay anything at all. The CSA (if and when they get involved) only start calculations from when they get involved, so your ex can't try to claim this back in the future, and as there's no court order with respect to maintenance payments as far as I can tell, you are currently paying only what you think is fair.

I would say that what you are proposing is fair - though if you have time, it may be worth writing to say that if she does stop your daughter from taking anything with her, then you will do as you have proposed - that way she has the option to relent, and your position would be seen a more reasonable when/if it is brought up in court proceedings later on.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I had already thought that, but as usual as the father I thought it best to try and sort it out amicably rather than another solid block of stone between parents. But every turn I have had to do due to my wifes bitterness has got me no where.

So I am taking them shopping this weekend for a few new outfits at ASDA.

Thanks again for support.