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This is my 1st post and didnt know where to put this so please me nice to me if i have put it in the wrong place.
ok myself and my husband have a 12 year old son who is almost 13 and myself and son went to see my mother for a couple of days 2 weeks ago.
everything was all ok before we left home and no problems between son and husband and they chatted on phone the evening we got to my mothers.
my son went to stay at my brothers house overnight on the 1st night there and i stayed at my mums but the next day my son was saying he was not coming back home.
i kept saying he had to go back home as had school and he knew that we was only there for the 2 nights but still he would not come home.
so again on the 2nd night he stayed at my brothers house and i kept saying to him that he needed to stay with me at my mothers as we had to be up early the next day to get back home and my brother said to me that if my son stays that night at his then he wont be coming back home.
that night son went to police to tell them that my husband his dad keeps moaning at him which he does not get moaned at any more then any other child and since then he has come up with all sorts of lies about husband with things like husband hits him which he does not.
so because of what he was saying Social services have been to see him and have come to our home to see us as well as i am back at home now.
they seem to be doing nothing and seem to want to wash there hands as keep saying due to him saying that if he comes home he will run away or take a overdose they can not make him come home and that we need to get legal advice which we have done.
there is no problems at home or at school or at youth club and son is having loads of stuff put into his head by my sister in law as since me and husband got married 5 years ago they have always wanted us to live near them as we was a close family before i got married and all lived in the same house.
i do not get on with sister in law now as she will do anything to get what she wants and for son and me to live up there with them(they live 200 miles away)
they have never come over here to see son or meet half way to pick him up and its always been my husband that took him up there so we think that this whole thing was planned while son stayed at there house when i was up there.
it seems social service and the police done want anything to do with it as they say its a family problem and that we need to sort it out between us but cant see that happening while son is still up there and not going to school as have fallen out with mother and brother and sister in law over this.
we even said to son what about he stays at his other auntie who lives in another part of the uk but he still would not go there so to me that shows its not a home problem but just the fact he wants to stay with brother and nan who is ill.
my mother is ill but sister in law was trying to scare us 3 weeks ago by saying she only had days to live which in fact we knew was not true so also this may be a cause on why son wont come home.
so yesterday we saw solicitor for a free 30 mins and we told them what has been going on and told us that he should be back at home and at school and to go to our court on Monday morning to get a court order which states he must come home and to see a judge on monday to get order.
i have PR as well as my husband but no other person has it so what chance do we have in getting a order on monday?
we have all the forms which we have to fill out and there has been talk from other members of family about abuse by my brother towards another child family member 15 years ago which i knew nothing about till this week so i think there is a risk to my son and we told social services about this and they said that the person who is now 21 had to go to the police before they will do anything.
there are no care orders by social services or anything and they have not said that he cant come home.
any advice please.
I'm at a loss as what to suggest here - the problem is that the social worker is correct in that if you bring him home forcibly (which it sounds as though you may have to do), what is the chance he will run away again. I wonder whether your case in court is strengthened in that, as far as I recall. you legally have to ensure that he is getting an education, and your sister in law cannot arrange for a local school to take him has she does not have PR. Do you know what his schooling arrangements are at present?
I would also be inclined to speak to the police local to your brother and explain the situation to them, and ask if they would accompany you to your brother's house to get your son back.
I'm at a loss as what to suggest here - the problem is that the social worker is correct in that if you bring him home forcibly (which it sounds as though you may have to do), what is the chance he will run away again. I wonder whether your case in court is strengthened in that, as far as I recall. you legally have to ensure that he is getting an education, and your sister in law cannot arrange for a local school to take him has she does not have PR. Do you know what his schooling arrangements are at present?
I would also be inclined to speak to the police local to your brother and explain the situation to them, and ask if they would accompany you to your brother's house to get your son back.
Many thanks for your reply.
we dont think he will run away when he gets home as we just think he has been told to say that knowing that social services wont move him if he keeps saying that.
He is not at school at all where he is and he needs to be back at school.
while he is still staying there he is having all sorts put into his head and dont think that will change.
would the court still do a order knowing he has said he may run away when get home?
we think when he is back home he will go back to how he was before he went up there and be the normal loving kid that he was.
we are also unsure what to put on the court forms on reasons to get him back home apart from he needs to be back at school and with his mum.
If the family he is with do not have PR then the police should assist you in getting him home! If the SS have been involved and don't consider he is at risk from you and are not putting a child protection plan in place then the police shouldn't have any reason not to help return him.
Applying to the court may open a can of worms, the judge may award your brother interim residence because of your sons claims and order reports and before you know it's 6 months down the line.
I'd give the police another go, tell them SS won't get involved, the child is missing school and the people he is staying with do not have PR. if they won't do anything then yes an emergency order would be the only option. What would you be applying for specifically?
If the family he is with do not have PR then the police should assist you in getting him home! If the SS have been involved and don't consider he is at risk from you and are not putting a child protection plan in place then the police shouldn't have any reason not to help return him.
Applying to the court may open a can of worms, the judge may award your brother interim residence because of your sons claims and order reports and before you know it's 6 months down the line.I'd give the police another go, tell them SS won't get involved, the child is missing school and the people he is staying with do not have PR. if they won't do anything then yes an emergency order would be the only option. What would you be applying for specifically?
We have done the police thing and all they say is that its a family issue and if he wont come home then to get legal advice which we did and was told to go to court.
we are applying for specific issue order in that he comes home as not at school and also there has been talk from other members of the family about some sort of child abuse from brother towards another family member when she was 6 15 years ago.
It's a bit extreme - but is there a case to say that you sister-in-law is grooming your son?
I would call them again and say its not a family matter its a parental responsibility issue, they don't have PR, the SS are not going to get involved and he is missing school. Insist that everything was fine before he decided not to go home with you. And you feel that your brother and his wife are influencing his decision. By law it is your responsibility to make sure he is safe etc... I think it's the duty of the police to return him home.
I would normally ask for one of the moderators to ask Coram Childrens Legal Centre to come along and give you some legal advice, but they can take a couple of days to respond. As its urgent you might like to,call them first thing, there's a link to their website and contact details at the bottom of the page.
I don't wish to bad mouth all solicitors but it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for a solicitor to encourage court as the best option, it's an income for them.
It's a bit extreme - but is there a case to say that you sister-in-law is grooming your son?
What do you mean?
We have heard a few days ago about my wifes brother 15 years ago when he was 21 that he may have abused a another family member when she was 6 but she wont go to the police as she does not want to bring it all up again..
I would call them again and say its not a family matter its a parental responsibility issue, they don't have PR, the SS are not going to get involved and he is missing school. Insist that everything was fine before he decided not to go home with you. And you feel that your brother and his wife are influencing his decision. By law it is your responsibility to make sure he is safe etc... I think it's the duty of the police to return him home.
I would normally ask for one of the moderators to ask Coram Childrens Legal Centre to come along and give you some legal advice, but they can take a couple of days to respond. As its urgent you might like to,call them first thing, there's a link to their website and contact details at the bottom of the page.
I don't wish to bad mouth all solicitors but it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for a solicitor to encourage court as the best option, it's an income for them.
Many thanks for that will give them a call at 8am tomorrow.
Just a thought, what police force did you contact? The one there or your local one? I would call the other one too!
Just a thought, what police force did you contact? The one there or your local one? I would call the other one too!
it was both forces we contacted and have just done so again and again they say the same thing its a family issue and to get legal advice. 🙁
It's a bit extreme - but is there a case to say that you sister-in-law is grooming your son?
What do you mean?
We have heard a few days ago about my wifes brother 15 years ago when he was 21 that he may have abused a another family member when she was 6 but she wont go to the police as she does not want to bring it all up again..
I think this probably sums up what I was wondering http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming
If there was any suspicion of this, I don't think the police or SS could take such a relaxed attitude.
It's a bit extreme - but is there a case to say that you sister-in-law is grooming your son?
What do you mean?
We have heard a few days ago about my wifes brother 15 years ago when he was 21 that he may have abused a another family member when she was 6 but she wont go to the police as she does not want to bring it all up again..
I think this probably sums up what I was wondering http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming
If there was any suspicion of this, I don't think the police or SS could take such a relaxed attitude.
Many thanks for that.
having looked at the list on that page myself and my wife can say that we know at least 5 of them have been happening and maybe 6 and as i say we have heard stuff this week about brother and a girl 15 years ago so maybe there is some truth in this.
Do you think we should try and get a order tomorrow from the court and what is the chance we will get it to get him out of there and back home or to another family member who we have no worries about?
Just to update you all.
We this morning have been to court and got to see the judge who was very nice.
Due to the lack of information she could not do a order for son to come back home but has done a order for the other party to come to court next Monday which we dont think they will.
What happens if they dont show up and as they dont have PR could they get son into a school in there areal without us being asked?
Next weeks hearing will be about where son should stay while its all being sorted out in court.
we could do with having a Mckenzie with us next week but am having trouble finding one for our Area Macclesfield so does anyone know of any for this area?
Just to update you all.
Social services have been on the phone this morning to say that they are closing the case as they have no worries about son and we also found out that the sister in law had called the schools people on the day my wife came back home and the schools people got the form but they have refused to put him into a school up there as they cant prove that they have PR which they cant prove that as they dont have PR.
i have asked the social worker for a letter by email to take to court Monday saying that they have no worries and that they are closing the case so hope that will help in court.
So now looking up but we are not getting our hopes up to much.
Sorry for the delay. As you say, your son can't get into school as they have correctly said that your sister in law doesn't have PR. I assume the letter from SS is saying (if you get it) that they have no worries about you as parents, in which case it will help - as opposed to your brother and sister in law, in which case it wouldn't make any difference.
Nanny Jane - do you know of any MF's or contacts in Cheshire?
If they don't turn up on Monday, I would think that the court would have to make an order in their absence. If they turn up, I think it's worth going for the order to get your son returned, but possibly offering a contact order so that your sister in law can keep in touch with him, but you'd either want it supervised at a contact centre, or an undertaking to the court that she won't keep him again (breaking that undertaking is contempt of court - quite a serious matter)
I'm going to ask the CCLC to pop on and see if they can add advice to this, both to verify or correct any advice we've given, and to add any other advice they can give.
I've put the feelers out actd... A gentleman has been suggested, I have no personal knowledge of him but he comes recommended, he's based in Wolverhampton and his fees seem reasonable. Actd could I post his details and website/contact details here?
I may get another recommendation....In the meantime there's a branch of FNF in Manchester with contact details for Jason who will be the meeting organiser. He may know of MFs nearer to Macclesfield. Here's a link to the FNF web page that shows details of all their meetings nationally and includes the Manchester meeting with Jasons contact details.
www.fnf.org.uk/help-and-support/local-branch-meetings
....if you'd like me to forward the Wolverhampton MFs details macc then just PM me.
I understand actd, I certainly don't want it to look as if I'm promoting anyones business here, that wouldn't be right and as you know, I have very strong views on anyone touting for business on here!
....if you'd like me to forward the Wolverhampton MFs details macc then just PM me.
I understand actd, I certainly don't want it to look as if I'm promoting anyones business here, that wouldn't be right and as you know, I have very strong views on anyone touting for business on here!
Hi Nannyjane
i cants see where i can PM you so could you please PM me details of the MF near me please.
Many thanks.
Sorry for the delay. As you say, your son can't get into school as they have correctly said that your sister in law doesn't have PR. I assume the letter from SS is saying (if you get it) that they have no worries about you as parents, in which case it will help - as opposed to your brother and sister in law, in which case it wouldn't make any difference.
Nanny Jane - do you know of any MF's or contacts in Cheshire?
If they don't turn up on Monday, I would think that the court would have to make an order in their absence. If they turn up, I think it's worth going for the order to get your son returned, but possibly offering a contact order so that your sister in law can keep in touch with him, but you'd either want it supervised at a contact centre, or an undertaking to the court that she won't keep him again (breaking that undertaking is contempt of court - quite a serious matter)
I'm going to ask the CCLC to pop on and see if they can add advice to this, both to verify or correct any advice we've given, and to add any other advice they can give.
Hi there
Many thanks for your post.
Did you ask CCLC to pop on or was it to late?
Dear Macc2013
Thank you for your post.
Having read all posts here we would be grateful if you could contact us directly to discuss the matter in more detail so we can obtain further information from you.
Our advice line is available Monday to Friday 8am to 8pm on 0808 8020 008.
Yours sincerely
CORAM CHILDREN'S LEGAL CENTRE
Dear Macc2013
Thank you for your post.
Having read all posts here we would be grateful if you could contact us directly to discuss the matter in more detail so we can obtain further information from you.
Our advice line is available Monday to Friday 8am to 8pm on 0808 8020 008.
Yours sincerely
CORAM CHILDREN'S LEGAL CENTRE
Many thanks for your reply.
I did this last week before Mondays hearing so is it worth ringing again?
Ah, just seen this - probably too late now (unless youread this before 8pm), but it you've time on Monday morning, I'd give them a ring anyway just to make sure you are as happy as you can be with going to court.
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