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i,
This is my first post on this fantastic forum.... well my second actually but when i wrote my first wall of text i forgot to log in and lost it all... DOH!
I have promised myself that this time i will not write so much but i have to be realistic and appologise in advance, my issue is a very long running one and making a summary really doesnt justify how serious i feel regarding it all. I also appologise in advance as in all likelyhood such of my post will not be relevent and usually ends up in a rant, im so frustrated.
ok, i'll try to stick with facts so here goes....
I married when i was very very young, i was 18 and a serving soldier. my wife (i shall call W) was 17 when we married. W was a ward of court when we met and was released to my care when we married - this involved meeting with her social worker etc. - i now upon reflection believe this was a very irresponsible thing for the S.S. to do - i was pretty much a child still myself at the time. during the marriage (which was far far from blissful) we had two children, a son J and a daughter K.
like i said our marriage was rocky to say the least, plent of splitting up and getting back together again - this resulted in me leaving the army - my home life was more important. nothing fixed things and we devorced after just 4 years, our final split was when my daughter was just a couple of months old.
At the time of the split i had to move back to my parents who lived in Cumbria, W and my children remained at the other end of the country. divorce poceedings went ahead, as did a residence order in my W's favour, i did want to contest this but was advised not to by my solicitor. No formal contact agreement was made at the time due to the fact that i was at the time unemployed and could not possibly make regular visits on an 800 mile round trip.
During the divorce, but after residency was set, i managed to get a low paid job in London. I took this job with the sole intent of being close enough to visit my children. During the first 4 months in London i managed to arrange to visit my children with their mother present, arrangements were made with W as there was no way i could have afforded the fee's to set things up formally.
The first visit went fine, just a couple of hours long but i saw the children in their own home - around a year after we had split. my son was now talking and my daughter walking.
I had to admit to my Ex-wife (the divorce had its finalization) that i had met someone else and in a relationship for around 2 months (still together and happily married), this seemed to be taken ok but after leaving W turned funny and made it difficult to arrange to see my children again, i persisted and managed to arrange to see them around 8 weeks after the first visit. Upon arrival the children were not there - W had left them with her mother to give us time to talk. I stayed over that night and W left the next morning to get the children, she never returned and sent her sister instead who told me that W didn't think it a good idea that i should see them.
I was of course devastated, heartbroken and all of the other emotions that go along with it. After discussion with friends and family i decided that (well in fact forced - i did try after the attempted meeting to arrange another but to no avail) it was not going to do anybody, myself or my children any good at all, sporadic visits, struggling to see them, broken promises and so forth. I had to make the very uncomfortable decision and walk away, my intention to see the children when they were old enough and without W involved. This has haunted me ever since, thinking of them daily - xmas was murder my son was born on xmas day.
anyway time goes by, W had moved, changed phone number etc and so had the rest of her family - i had no contacts in her home town at all, simply, i did not know where my children were.
in March this year- 15 years later and W pops up on my facebook account requesting to be friends. My wife saw this first, not i. she accepted the friends request on my behalf, purely so i could perhaps see photos of my children, no interaction with W was planned. There were no photos of the children on there, i suspect she had removed any prior to sending the request.
Thinking about the request and the message sent to me saying ' i really need to contact you' had me worried, what if soomething awful had happened to one (or both) of the children? i decided to accept a chat request and began chatting, pleasantries were exchanged and i asked what was so urgent? i was then asked by W if i could call her if she gave me a number. - not a good idea in mine or my wifes opinion, i told W this and she became curt, i pressed a little and got information that my son had got into trouble (he is now 17). i quizzed further and asked about my daughter K, and was told not to worry, K did not want to speak to me and that W and her husband would deal with the problems, she told me to remove her from FB and she once again vanished.
Now, my son, J has managed to also find me on FB, he does have one or two issues but nothing that cant be worked out and noting as serious as W appeared to make them. I now have a relationship with W and see him as regularly as i can, he was thrown out of the family home at 16 and is now living with his girlfriends parents.
The day after i met J for the first time (since he was a toddler), I get a call from him, he had his sister with him and she would love to talk to me, of course i was ecstatic and i spoke with K for a while, her mother had made it clear to her that she was not to have any contact with me. Of course, this call had to end. and a week or so later K had created a new facebook account (her mother controls her original) to secretly stay in touch with me, although worried that she be found out i was very happy finally having contact again. During our conversations i discovered that K was not having a nice time at home, she was very unhappy and had been so for years before, suffering from things such as self-harm and eating disorders - the household is also an abusive one, she is verbally abused on an almost daily basis - and more.
My daughter requested to live with me when she turns 16 (she has just turned 16), we wish we had the room but with a stepson in our 2 bed house we just dont. I told K that i was sorry and that she must contact the S.S. and police and report the abuse right away. she said that its made difficult to do this as she is locked in the house most of the time (doors and windows) and her phone is taken from her. she was also terrified that reporting this would make things far worse (despite our reassurances)
I initially took these 'issues' very seriously but also i looked at them with an open mind. I did manage to convince my son to spill the beans, he did reluctantly confirm that this type of thing does go on. We decided that if K really wanted out and was afraid of staying in her home town then she could seek the help of the authorities where we live in London. Her home town is a small place and if she left home due to being "in need" she would get zero support and would worry about bumping into her mother.
all of the above was spoken on facebook, sadly a couple of weeks ago W found out about the secret FB account. She removed it, and changed K's phone number in an attempt to sever contact. Thankfully it didnt work and K still speaks to me in secret and we have even met (but for just half an hour).
Since finding out W has been to her local S.S. and they have spoken with K. i was unaware until last week when i got a call from her Social worker. she wished to arrange a meeting with a view to myself and K establishing a relationship.
Striaght away i took a dislike to this Social worker, she would talk over me constantly and in general was not happy discussing this issue over the phone - dispite me stating that o would not be visiting in the near future. she had dealt with my son in the past and they had not got on, my son declared himself as a young homeless person and they did little/nothing to help. My reply was that i was unwilling to arrange anyhting at that time and wanted to confirm with K that this is indeed what she wants. I spoke with K moments after the call ended and she did indeed confirm that she attended a meeting with this S.W. but was coerced into it by her mother.
I have since emailed the S.W. with my concerns over having her arrange contact with my daughter - she has a 'tie' with the family and i honestly believe that she would not be in the best position to advise on this without thinking of K's mother - despite of what K says.
K really cannot stay in the house she is in any longer - she is afraid, we can support her. it was arranged that K was going to leave home today and move to my area and present herself to the S.S.
However...
I spoke with K on Sunday, all was finalised for today. we were both very happy that we could be together and we ended our call on a high at about midday. That evening at about 10pm my son told me via text that K would not be able to make it as she has an operation.
I was perplexed, what did he mean? i called him to find out that he had seen her earlier that afternoon and she was crying in pain and was admitted to hospital.
I managed to contact K via text to confirm this and she told me that she has suspected appendicitis. (sun night) she was sue to see a surgeon the next day (monday). she said she would keep me informed but of course this would be difficult.
Monday morning came - i didnt sleep a wink sunday, i couldnt raise K and sick with worry i telephoned the hospital. After some chasing around i managed to find her. Difficult due to the fact she was admitted under her mothers new marital name and not K's birth name.
I spoke to a staff nurse on the ward and politely stated that i was "K's father and was calling to see how she was doing".
The nurse told me to hold while she went to find out, upon return the nurse told me that no patient by that name was under their care. I explained that admissions had told me that she was there, this time the nurse replied with she cannot disclose any information. Even when i explained that i have P.R. and have a legal right to know of her care the nurse refused.
I believe that this was due to the nurse visiting K's bedside and telling her visitors (mother and stepfather) that i was on the phone and them clearly telling her to say nothing.
this was a couple of days ago, i know (as of last night) K is now out of hospital and at home recovering.
yesterday i get an email from K's social worker, thanking me for the email i sent last week and telling me that she was due to see K this week and she would discuss some of my points with her.
I politely replied that i suggest that the S.W. contact K and her family to confirm the meeting, as K was in hospital. I also explained that i was rather stressed and worried as the hospital refused to talk to me and i did not know what was going on.
the S.W. replied, again via email and i am going to copy the exact words here (blanking the names):
I am fully aware of K's illness and in fact have spoke to both K and W yesterday. I plan to visit K when she is discharged from hospital at K's request.
J F
now i don't know about you, but this is the exact context of the email and i find it rude and curt. there is no addressing me or any salutation in any of the S.W. emails to me. I am not happy having her deal with the case and nor is my daughter - she is just far too timid and afraid to tell. In my reply to the S.W. i have requested all information regarding disclosure of both of my children's cases - i am yet to get a reply to this request.
I am at a loss now as to what else i can do.
My daughter is at this time too ill to move out despite being in 'danger'
the S.W. appears to lean heavily towards pleasing the mother and not K herself
my daugher is now 16 and no court in the land would agree a contact order
the mother will not allow contact whatsoever - her contacting the S.S. i believe is simply a ploy to appear as a dutiful mother - K fears her mother and is worried of trouble if she voices openly that she wants to see me
Residence order - mother insists this lasts until she is 18 (according to the S.W.) i doubt this, proof is yet to be seen - besides AFAIK it is now an unenforceable order due to her age, and again no court would order enforcement due to age.
Is there any tiny legality that i have missed that may make things easier for my daughter and i to have the relationship we have waited so long to have?
Her plans have not changed, she still says she wants and needs to move away.
Hi sapper.gb,
Welcome to DadTalk mate. What an incredibly long post - though I can't fault you for being short on the detail. 😉
Just to let you know I have edited your post to remove the place name where your daughter currently resides and have removed her name from a place on the post purely so that she is not identifiable from the post.
Right from a legal stand point I believe (please correct me if I am wrong ) that you currently do not have a solicitor involved in this - if you don't then I can ask the Children's Legal Centre to pop by and give you the benefit of their free Child Law knowledge.
I can also see if one of our tame social workers can offer me their opinion of what has transpired and what you may consider doing next. I know you are annoyed with the social worker that you have had dealings with but could I mention in spite of all the bad press social services have got recently - every social worker I have known has the child's welfare at the heart of everything they do. Navigating family relationships and situations like this is an incredibly difficult task and though you feel that they are not doing the best for your daughter - they will be trying their best.
It must be frustrating that you want to help your daughter and feel that you are unable to at the moment.
It will be at least tomorrow before I am able to get a response from either the Childrens Legal Centre or our tame SW - so check back for a reply. Feel free to pop back and vent if you need to mate - someone is always around.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Gooner
Many thanks for both your reply and also talking the time to edit my post.
You are correct. In the fact that I do not have legal representation. I have tried to seek advice from a number of sources but as to when it comes to a solicitor I understand that it would probably not be worthwhile due to my daughters age and the fact that no orders would be made by the courts.
The only contact I have had with anyone from a legal standing is with the court who dealt with the residence order. I have had to write to them in an attempt to find out what age the order finishes, my worry being what to do if my daughter was to turn up on my doorstep (she has just turned 16). The letter needed to be presented to the district judge for a decision, odd, all I want is the age in an order that would have been served on me.
While I do recognise the great work of the social services I really have little confidence in this particular local authority. As said I honestly believe they should not have allowed marriage of one of thirty wards to someone so young.
The s.s. have also failed in the dealings they had with my son, and this is the very same S.W. my son has admitted to me that he did make things difficult for them but even so, he suffers from diagnosed ADHD and ODD, I believe that allowances should have been made for this. I am angry with the fact that this s.w. had spoken to both my daughter and her mother and was aware of her illness but failed to inform me that my daughter was ill to the point of undergoing surgery. She managed to speak to all parties who by law were involved except me.
On that subject, my daughter has also been diagnosed with ADHD which i find unusual in itself but I think it can be put down to the environment they were brought up in.
I managed to get a few messages from my daughter last night, she is in a lot of pain and feels very poorly (understandably), her mother has confined her to her bedroom to recover - fine - but she has been told she cannot even venture out to use the toilet, instead a bucket has been supplied, a fantastic way to destroy her dignity and self respect.
Why can her mother not allow my daughter to speak with her father when she is ill? My daughter right now is suffering from pain and feels very vunerable what she needs is reassurance, love and comfort. Something easily provided by a ten minute phonecall each day.
Its awful feeling so helpless. 🙁
Hi mate,
Just heard back from our tame social worker, who made the following useful points:
If you daughter feels that she is being abused she could contact Childline or the NSPCC helpline - both will be able to, if needed, help to take action.
It sounds like your daughter needs to access an independant voice away from the mother, she can do that by contacting NYAS. They can provide an independant advocate who would insist on meeting your daughter on her on her own. The NYAS advocate can help make sure that your daughters voice & point of view is heard when dealing with officials.
Also when dealing with the social worker remember that she/he may be a little wary of your initial involvement because of your relatively new relationship with your daughter and involvement in her life.
It's great that you have got involved again and want so much to help your daughter, try to maintain a calm professional approach and focus on the needs of your daughter. Stick with it and show social services that you are committed and you will find that they will engage with you eventually.
I hope this advice is useful to you.
Gooner
Hi
This is awful. There are a couple of points I would make, the first hopefully our tame social worker can confirm or correct. Assuming your daughter is still in education (and I'm not sure of the position if she's not), if she declares herself homeless, I thought that the council had a legal duty to find her accomodation. My son did this a few years ago because he couldn't stand to stay with my ex, but wanted to stay where he was for a couple of years as he'd just got into a very good school - he was put into some sort of supported lodgings which was a fantastic solution.
Secondly, also look at contacting Action for Children - again, NCH (as Action for Children was then) sorted out everything for my son (I was more than willing to help, but they knew the system far better than me) and provided support for him when I wasn't there.
man what a horrible situation - I can almost feel the frustration coming out of your posts.
I have nothing useful to add, to what actd and gooner have said, except for my sorrow at what you are going through. Your daughter is lucky that you are back in her life and more than willing to help her.
keep strong man.
Dear Sapper gp
As your daughter is 16 years old she can decide where she wishes to live. The residence order your ex wife had, expired when she child reached 16 years old and only lasts until 18 years old in exceptional circumstances. If you wanted to check on the court order you could contact the court where the order was made and they may be able to supply you with a copy for a small fee or disclose the details over the telephone.
If you do have concerns about your daughter you can speak with social services and if you are not happy with the social worker dealing with this you can request a different social worker. You could also address your concerns in a complaint if you are dissatisfied as to how it has been dealt with. If you wish to follow the complaints route you should request in writing a copy of their complaints policy and procedure which will outline the complaints route.
If you have any further questions please contact our free confidential advice line on 0808 8020 008.
Your Sincerely
Children’s Legal Centre
thank you all for your support and replies.
I have already been in touch with the dealing court, its been over 2 weeks now. ive phoned a couple of times but unless i can get the actual case holder there is little anyone can say on movement of my request. This is due to the case for the order being made in 1995 - before they went computerized.
My daughter is, i believe afraid to get in touch with any authorities. NYAS sounds fantastic but i am very doubtful that her mother would allow her any form of independent contact with them - right now she is just a puppet being played by her mother.
acdt - your advice regarding homelessness was exactly my train of thought for my daughter. Of course it is something that i would rather not have to do but put simply there is no way i could comfortably accommodate her due to my own housing arrangements. She is happy to come to me and declare herself homeless to my local authorities thus enabling us to have contact and to be able to support her.
I believe that the case worker acting on behalf of my daughter (and acted for my son) is indeed from Action for Children, well i think so anyway - When i spoke to her on the phone i didn't get all of the details but i know for sure she said that the case had been referred to them by the S.S.
Events of the last 2 days:
I managed to chat via text with my daughter yesterday morning while she was at home alone- we were planning on speaking but she advised not to because her mum 'had put the cameras on'. when questioning this it appears that the mother has had some CCTV type equipment installed. - My daughter said that she couldn't leave the front room, get dressed or talk to anyone because her mother had said "i will know because of the cameras" - i questioned the cameras, asking if they are in her room, she said she wasnt sure. SHE IS 16 YEARS OF AGE!!! obviously a stepfather living there would have access to any recordings, what if these recordings includ getting dressed/undressed? NOT HAPPY NOW!
anyway the texts went fine, lots of love and emotion back and forth.
Last night i established contact again as arranged - something wasnt right. she asked me to call, i did and someone else answered. my daughter (or the texter) asked me to call again as she was with he aunty and she was fine with everything. i declined this, the texts just didnt seem the same as before.
This morning - more texts, clearly again not from her, although some details were accurate such as her saying u know its me because your car colour is red. but agian other info being clearly wrong for example, the texter saying '1m 16 you don't even know me, we have never met' (we have actually met once). most of these texts were pointing towards the social worker, stating that she wishes to do things through her whereas before, when i knew it was her, she stated that she doesnt really want anything to to with them.
I played along with the text game this morning - pretending to believe it was her, both i and my wife can clearly tell it isnt.
So now here we are again - back to square one, no contact, i cant ever trust that mobile number to be her on the other end.
🙁
Update:
Received a call today from my daughter saying she could no longer take any more at home.
2 hours later i collected her, has a bit of an incident with her mother tuning up as we met but this was quickly and professionally dealt with by the police who i called, they called her social worker who amazingly appeared to give me her blessing.
I now have my daughter living with me.
😀
That's great news mate.
How is she getting on at your place? I take it she is still recovering at the moment.
It's great that you are able to offer your daughter a stable home environment.
let us know how its going mate - regular updates please
Gooner
Well what can i say?
Its now day +2 and things are going great. She appears to be very very happy. we haven't had a bad word yet - but at her age i'm sure that will come in time.
My family have been fantastically supportive and have really shocked me, my wife has inherited a daughter and they get on like a house on fire, i can really feel the love between them. My stepson gets on so very well with her too and has made her so welcome - they are the best of friends and its as though they have known each other for years.
😀
That's such great news - I am made up for you and your daughter mate.
I love good news updates - keep the updates coming
Gooner
Appologies for the lack of updates in relation to this.
Im afraid that things had a huge devlopment some months back.
My daughter ended up going back to her mother. i dont want to go too deep into the reasons why she went back but it was down to a huge amount of stress caused with finding her somewhere to stay. As i explained earlier we just didnt have the room, i managed to have a friend put her up. We spent 2 weeks fighting with the s.s. who refused point blank in helping. In the end i just broke down. My daughter saw this and thought it was her fault so went back.
It transpires that life at her mums was not qs abusive as she made out. She has ADHD and did 'exaggerate' somewhat.
Upon going back all contact was cut off, and i hadnt spoken to or heard from her - until new years eve. We (wife and i) spent new year with my son my daughter turned up there aw she had walked out of her mothers the day before.
It was great seeing her but she looked rather ill and not a patch on the happy young thing she was when she was with us.
Now, i left the car at my sons that night as i had had a drink and was staying at a hotel locally. I walked back to collect the car the next morning and was confronted by her mother - the first time i had seen her in 14 years.
She was not overly aggresive but wanted to know what i was doing in that town, she was afraid i was going to take my daughter again. I assured her i wasnt there to do that and promised i would do my best to get her to go home.
Ten mins or so later when i was in my sons flat, my ex-mother-in-law turned up. She was polite and sat eown with my daughter and i and convinced her to go home. my dqughter agreed and it was suggested my m.i.l.that we all go to the house where mum and i could discuss things.
Not whqt i imagined new year to turn out like but there you go.
Since this, my wife and ex have spoken a number of times mainly due to my dqughter plqying up, not going home etc.
We hqve been invited to my ex for dinner etc which is a nice gesture but my guard is up.
A few days ago my daughter once again went missing, we (wife qnd i) manqged to talk to her and convince her to return home, she did and we are going to see her on saturday.
A huge development as i said earlier. The issue i have now is that my ex is pretty much trying to call the shots, chastising us for giving the kids cash and treating them. my wife and i have held our tounges so far but cqnt see it lasting, my kids are 18 and 16 not babies, when in our care we will treat them how we wish.
So how do i deal with this situation now? My daughter has said she would like to come up for easter weekend and we want her to but her mother keeps saying 'i dont know... i need to build trust'
Im close to saying thqt if she wants to and we want her to then it will happen, but i dont want to rock the boat.
Dont even ask what was said when we mentioned taking her to cyprus in he summer.
So how do we reach a compromise? I dont want to rock the boat, but my daughter is 17 (17 in june). I respect that she lives there and there are rules, but qt that age how can they come into plqy when it comes to contqct?
appologies for typos, his is written on my phone.
Hi
I'm a little ignorant of this area, but is there a residence order in place, and if so what age does it run up to? Normally the courts don't concern themselves with children over 16 unless there are physical or learning difficulties needing care beyond 16 - I don't know whether ADHD comes under this category.
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