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Hello everyone,
having had a good look at this forum for the last few days,I wanted to contribute so I registered.
First and foremost....please do not give up your fight to see your children.
Kids need both parents and when I read some of the stories here I wanted to weep....
My own story ( and please bear with me, it might be a little long) is just beginning and something
within me tells me it will continue for some time to come.
Anyway...I am a mother to 3 (now all grown up) sons, the youngest made me a proud grandmother
4 years ago, followed by my second son who made me a grandmother once more.
From the start I was involved in both children's life's ,I looked after them when their parents went back to
work, which was at 8months and 5 months old respectively.
Sadly the relationship between the mother of my 2nd grandchild and my son didn't last but they continue
to care jointly for their child and I am happy to say that they have managed to become friends.
No matter what, they do care for the welfare of their child and put the child's needs first.
My first son met a woman who he fell in love with and wanted to start a family with.She was a mum already
and we...as a family readily accepted her and her child in our fold.
Due to circumstances on either side my son moved back with us long before he met this lady and she
was in the process of moving back to her mothers abode.
If you are wondering why I mention all this....hang in there...it will become clear soon.
At no stage did they ever live together but spent weekends and some nights during the week either
at her mothers place or at our home.
The relationship was "turbulent" in terms of that my sons partner would have an argument over nothing,my son
hating confrontations would wait until she was calm enough to be reasoned with and things would be fine again. Tempestuous might be a more correct term...
Yes...I know ( and my son knows it too) love is blind!
Just after christmas my son broke it off, not being able to cope with the constant mood swings, arguments etc.
Then came the announcement that she was pregnant.My son was full of joy as were we as a family but what was to
be a happy time slowly turned into the stuff nightmares are made from.
Son considered getting back with her but abandoned the idea as she became more and more abusive.
He continuously told her that he wanted to be fully involved and help to buy all things she needed for the new
arrival.
She was scared of telling her mother ( now we are not talking about a teenager here but a woman in her late 20's)
so my son naturally said he would come up and they could tell her family together.
This was met with point blank refusal.He then asked to see her child from the previous relationship as he had grown
(As indeed had we) to love her and missed her terribly.No can do.
The pregnant lady then obviously told her mother some days later and the mother promptly got in touch
with my son demanding that he step up to the plate.
Pregnant woman meanwhile had scans to which she refused to allow my son to attend and threatening
to call the police should he turn up only for her to say afterwards
something along the lines of: If you were interested you would have been there.
I am sure you get the gist of it.
At about April she was trying to get a council place of her own, having surrendered her previous tenancy to move
back to her mothers.
Her mother was still harbouring great resentment towards my son for getting her daughter pregnant and vented
her frustrations directly at my son.Both my son and I realised that she was rather misinformed and since I had kept
well out of the goings on ( other than to lend an ear when needed) I arranged for her mother and myself to try
and sort a way forward.
The meeting took place at her house, was fairly cordial and frank in terms that I had to correct some of the facts
as my sons ex partner was bending the truths on quite a few matters.
I was told in no uncertain terms that my sons
ex partner would expect my son to house and maintain her daughter.
She also told me that she and her pregnant daughter believe that the father should have no contact with the
child whatsoever!!!
My son should sell his caravan and car ( one is a towing vehicle) to provide for her daughter.
By then I understood that any attempt to reason with her would be futile so I said my good-byes and left.
Maybe something got through after all, for my son was allowed to go to 2 scans which he did to his delight.
But before you get the bottle of champagne out....no no no....things went from bad to worse.
Pregnant lady is still trying to get a council place...and failed to get one because of rent arreas the size of
Birmingham ....ok ok...maybe not that much but you get my meaning.
On top of that she also owed money to some utility company...again, quite a hefty chunk.
My sons ex partner demanded that he should sell the caravan( which my husband and I actually co-own)
and the towing vehicle and give the proceeds to her to fund accommodation etc.
Obviously my son refused. She got in touch with her local authority and allegedly they told her that
if there was a payment of £200.00 towards the arreas they would consider offering her a place.
My son paid this directly to the authority but they haven't offered her anything at all...I am not surprised!
All along however, she didn't want my sons name on the birth certificate, much to my sons bewilderment.
it's only a piece of paper.....he was told. Yep...I know what you are going to say...!!!
So the pregnancy continued and the woman is still bombarding my son with text messages, demanding this
that and the other.
Amongst the more reasonable demands was for my son to contribute towards the new babies needs, like a
cot, clothes bottles and that kind of stuff.
My son..only to happy to purchase what was needed ,asked for a list of items and possibly where she had
seen them.He would buy the things she specified and have them delivered to her house...as we knew by then
that she not only wanted cash but can't handle money.
She point blank refused to give him a list, pointing out to my son that he should know what was needed.
Subsequently he went and bought a cot, clothes, nappies etc and had it delivered to her house.
He got a message from her saying that because he had not bothered to buy anything, she had to do it all.
Since nothing he bought was apparently good enough or not needed my son requested that she sent all the
stuff back at his expense so he could buy something more useful.
Needless to say...that never happened.
They continued to communicate by text message, she would send stuff like ..."I miss you"
"I want to sleep with you" and if the response wasn't what she wanted she would
literally bombard him with text messages. Some days there were in excess of 150 texts....
Some to which my son had replied...some he just didn't reply to.
Don't get me wrong...my son is no saint and has blown his top on the odd occasion
when his frustration got the better of him...maybe he shouldn't have done but then again I wonder what kind of person would be able to tolerate this behaviour for any lengths of time....this was making him physically ill and he was put on
anti-depressants and has been on ever since.
In early September the ex partner gave birth and my son was told by her mother that the baby had arrived.
My son wanted to see the new arrival and was firmly told to do what he did during the last 9 months....nothing.
No further information was given with regards to size or anything else.
We as a family were distraught at the lack of compassion, my son particularly so....so when the ex texted him
during the night to ask why he had not come to see the baby he blew his stack and told her to naff off.
It was another 24 hours before he received a picture of his baby along with its weight at birth but was told
that his presence was not wanted.
At this point...late in the evening, he broke down in my kitchen. A man in his 30's, 6" something crumpled
into a sobbing heap on the floor.
I managed to get him seen by our GP the following day who put him on some more medication to regulate the heartbeat and stop excess adrenalin going round the body.
However, his ex partner asked for him to go up and visit the baby.
He duly went, with a bunch of flowers and some chocolates and walked straight into an ambush.
Her mother let rip at him....so much so that her ranting and raving had upset the baby only to be told that
it was his fault that baby was unhappy....whilst babies mother was sitting there not saying anything.
After about 90 mins my son left not without having made arrangements to visit again 2 days later.
The next visit went reasonably well....my son being sick with anxiety,suffering
stomach cramps before turning up.
During the second visit she asked to bring baby down to us to meet to which
my son readily agreed.
She turned up with baby,as did other family members who wanted to meet
the new addition and although it wasn't as relaxed as it could have been, not
a bad word was spoken.
This was the pattern for the next week and again, she came down with baby
and everything went well. my son was even allowed to take baby to his
work to present him to his colleagues which took approx a little over an hour.
He brought baby back at the appointed time and place.
This was the last time we as the family had seen the little mite.
No no no....put the bottle of champagne back....
Then came the topic of birth certificate....an appointment had already
been made so my son had arranged to take the time of work to go
with babies mum to register the birth.
My son received a message saying that her mum doesn't want him on the
abc and his ex would cancel the appointment.
Another argument ensued and my son employed a little ploy to get his message across.
Obviously the appointment wasn't cancelled and he managed to have his name
on babies birth certificate to all our relief.
The same evening my son received a message from her saying that she was so
unhappy that he was on the bc, he made her feel like dirt ( she used a much stronger
term)....he thought things were pleasant enough.
He tried to ignore her as best as he could and once she was calm he started to negotiate
the contact he has with his baby.
The ex agreed for my son to have baby 3.5 hours on a particular weekday and
a day at the weekend as he can't cope with the atmosphere in her house as it
causes him great anxiety every time he travels to her mothers house where she still
lives.
Initially his ex agreed...and we thought great...progress at last.
Hm...yep...you guessed it...the spanner came flying into the spokes as out of the
blue she sent an email saying that he can see the child at her house only.
In another mail she said that he only wanted the baby so I as his grandmother
could see him and I am behind all of this....!!!!
Could he please stop his standing order for child maintenance as she didn't need
his money. In a following mail she stated that she was going to go to the CSA and
that she is the babies whole world and her baby only....he chose a [censored] caravan
over the baby.....only to be asking my son: Do you want us?
He replied that "us" wasn't an option but he would be there for the child unconditionally.
He has since refused to reply to any messages as he is going to seek legal
advise.
In the meantime I still look after my other grandchildren who know and have briefly met
their new cousin....ask how the cousin is doing and if they can see the baby again soon.
So far I have managed to stall them but my heart is broken as I see my own child in such
emotional turmoil and my own longing to hold my new grandchild again has to be suppressed in order to be able to give support to my son.
What would I give to have my new grandchild for half an hour...to examine the features,
talk to him and soak up the baby smell, touch the wispy hair, the wondering facial expressions while they are sleeping.
I will not have any of that any time soon and whilst I know she is scraping the bottom
of the barrel by blaming me for all this ( and yes...I am thick skinned enough) I still
miss the grandchild no matter what...even if I had only met him for a short period of time.
My husband who is equally as vexed as I am said in a conversation today that in order
to want something you have to see it first.
So she gave us the carrot to look at....and now we are beaten with the stick.
Trouble is...I can't see an end to it...this is going to go on and on and on.
Just for the record though...she gave up breast feeding as he had trouble feeding
and required a small procedure which they had to have done privately as funding
for this kind of thing isn't available in her area,my son gladly paid for it.
Baby is feeding fine ever since...
To see my son go through such a hard time is heart breaking when all he wants
to do is being a dad to his child....just like his younger brothers do with their children.
I can not understand woman who manipulate,scheme and connive ways
to turn fathers against children...the latter being the absolute victims in this.
I need to point out though that at no time has my son ever raised a hand to anyone,
he works in an environment where CRB checks are regularly made...nor has he ever been
in trouble with the law.
My consolation for now is this: I know that part of me is in the new grandchild
and the one good thing is that he is very young.
I am so sorry for the long long post, if you read it all...thank you for your time and patience.
Hi There,
It sounds like your son has really been put through the mill with all of this as you have, it does seem that the ex is possibly having her strings pulled by her mother which I have had experience of myself.
This is really tough as your son has all the rights to see his child but the reality of doing this won't be easy, he can go to court and he can fight a long battle to and throw to get a contact order in place and hopefully this would be the end of it but I would say maybe try and get him and his ex into mediation before he even looks at the court route, if he goes straight into court without mediation then the judge may well order they attend anyway, going first will help as if it does work then great, but if it doesn't if and when they go to court then the mediation route has been covered off already.
Try and get him on here to talk to us too, hearing others stories may help him knowing he isn't alone through this, if he is having very low days we also have some guidence councilors available that he can talk to.
We have had some very good success in helping dads get through very low points in life with support on the forum, the guidence teams and at times text contact too.
GTTS
One more VERY important thing, make sure he keeps ALL of the messages he has, both sent and recived as these may be called upon if you end up in court, also start a diary of events, make notes of conversations, agreements (made and broken) paint a full picture, cover the good with the bad, the polite and the nasty as this may help if you do have to take legal action.
There sounds like there will be a lot of messages to document, but if you are able to transcribe them onto paper or a word document then this will help too, If you are able to do this for him as I feel that having to read all those messages back would make his head explode.
GTTS
Thank you very much.
Yes,we have kept most of the text messages and mails.
My son and I are going to an FnF meeting soon which hopefully will give us some clarity.
Mediation is definitely the way to go forward as this will stand my son in good stead even if the
ex is not willing to take part.
His ex has contacted me this evening to see if she could drop some pictures off...I have always
tried to leave the channel of communication open ....although it is very hard.
You can imagine that I would love to give her a piece of my mind....but then again I also know
that this would be used as fodder against me,my son and our family.
You never know....she might even bring baby...
Hi and welcome to the forum. I have sent you a private message, you can retrieve it by clicking on private message on the top right hand side,
I and many others will recognise your story, I too am a Grandma who has gone through the pain you are now feeling, not only are you feeling the pain for your own child but your Grandchild a double whammy. On the site you will find great advise and sympathy. We are not the only Grannies on here and Im sure NJ will pop along soon. my advise is not to leave it to long before you take action we waited 18 months as we thought things would improve.
Its coming across like she still has feelings for your son and she is now using the baby as a weapon to get what she wants and stamps her feet when she cant get it, this is typical behaviour.
Its fantastic he is on the birth certificate Im presuming baby has her last name and he is named as the Father .
Being on the birth certificate gives your son parental responsibility, if you Google it you can see what this entitles him too, its a good thing to have, it doesn't give him contact rights . He does have to pay maintenance and this also doesn't give him contact rights, I know its a crazy world . Your son could let the Mother of his child know that in April 2014 csa is being scrapped and the government are encouraging family based agreements with regards maintenance. Your son can go on the csa website and there is a calculator and he can work out how much he should be paying he can pay more but shouldn't pay less, if she still doesn't want the money he can transfer it to a savings account for his child .
Mediation is now expected to have happened before you go the court route so I suggest your son looks into this , www.nfm.org.uk he will have to pay unless hes on a low wage and he may be entitled to legal aid, but its a lot cheaper then solicitors I wouldn't go to a solicitor at this stage, it will cost thousands you can go to court yourself and it will cost £215
Last thing , we know how you are feeling you are not alone and we can help
Thank you so much ak57,
You have no idea how much this means to me....knowing there are people who know how I feel....
...double whammy is the best description by far.
Yes, she wants my son back, she constantly tells him she loves him, misses him etc.
In the process she is using baby as a weapon, saying she wants my son to visit baby in her ( her mothers)
house.
He already pays maintenance, has set up straight away, clearly stating " Child Maintenance " from his bank.
My son worked the payments out by using the CSA online calculator and had agreed the sum with babies mother.
And yes....I spoke too soon last night, she is now not coming to see us at all, nothing new there.....sadly.
But we will attend the FnF meeting soon,so we will know ( hopefully) which steps to take.
Mediation is definitely the first step...as you say, without it the court wouldn't possibly entertain the idea of
contact.
In the meantime.....this crazy merry-go-round continues.....unfortunately it's impossible to reason with the unreasonable.
In the meantime.....this crazy merry-go-round continues.....unfortunately it's impossible to reason with the unreasonable.
My solicitor keeps telling me that "I cannot make an unreasonable woman reasonable". 🙂
Good luck to you all!
Regards,
Dave
Yep....Hope is what I have to hold on to.
My son received communication from his ex today to say that she is determined
to avoid court and that my son can take the child for a few hours a couple of
times a week.
My son would be over the moon if that were to happen....however, we have no
reason to trust her as every time arrangements were made, she moved the goalpost.
I still live in hope though...:)
In the meantime.....this crazy merry-go-round continues.....unfortunately it's impossible to reason with the unreasonable.
My solicitor keeps telling me that "I cannot make an unreasonable woman reasonable". 🙂
Good luck to you all!
Regards,
Dave
A very wise solicitor indeed.
Hi Kirsten,
All I can say is have a good read through all of the information and links we provide in the stickys at the top of each section, there's a wealth of info there. Learn as much as you can about your sons position, what his rights are and the best way to move forward.
Try to keep the lines of communication open with the mother, accept her for what she is and don't expect anything more, be wary when she is being nice but make the most of these "good times" these mothers are a handful and you're never going to like each other but that doesn't matter, be the bigger person and get philosophical....your working with her because you have to, you have no choice, she is the mother! I too have one of these, I bent over backwards for her early on and felt bitter about it, until I stopped taking it personally and saw it from the perspective of my grandson....whatever I have done for her has been for his benefit.
My son now has custody of my grandson, there were some serious risks of harm to the little fella but he is safe now....I have been though the court process, and in fact we are currently back at court because of the mothers behaviour. Even after gaining custody the problems haven't stopped, the mother still has a relationship with her son and although she is a poor excuse for a mother we have to respect that there is love between them and so we continue to facilitate contact. He has just spent his first overnight stay with her last weekend, the first for a year. ....I can't say we're happy about this but it's just the way it is....biting the bullet has become synonymous with dealing with this woman!
Hi Nannyjane,
yes, I have kept the channels of communication open, making sure she can contact me without
fear of reprisal.
Mind you, it is a hard thing to do when I would love to give her a piece of my mind....but so far I succeeded in keeping
my thoughts to myself and being friendly when she is in contact with me.
My son and I attended a FnF meeting and what an eye opener that was....
We have now a much clearer idea of what to do and how to do it so it was well worth attending
and we shall go again.
You are spot on when you say to be the bigger person...I know exactly what you mean there.
I have understood some time ago that my sons ex is the way she is and I have come to accept it....
like you say/ write:" biting the bullet has become synonymous with dealing with this woman."
I could not have put it any better myself.
Hi everyone....
just a quick update to share with you all.
Following the FnF meeting my son and I attended last week, we had a kind of break through.
During the meeting it was suggested that my son should write her a final mail, explaining the rights
of the child to see his dad and wider family.
My son duly took to the PC, wrote the mail...sent it and waited.
A reply came that contact twice a week for 3 1/2 hours would be ok.
Subsequently I was able to hold my new grandson and give him loads of kisses and hugs not once
but twice and again tomorrow for the first time this week.
Although I can see more issues lurking round the corner due to babies mothers nature I am happy
that I am able to bond with the newest addition of the family for now.
Thank you Nannyjane....
it was thanks to the FnF meeting.
Any dad at a loss as to what to do next should go to a meeting, I can't praise
them enough.
It was informative, we felt totally supported and came away with great advise which
worked as you can see by the result we have for now.
Knowledge is power Kirsten....sometimes we get so wound up with the emotion of it all that we can't see the wood for the trees...the guys at FNF are great levellers and there's a wealth of experience that can be tapped into...
You are so right.
We shall attend the next meeting and the next and the one after that.
Forewarned is being forearmed and their wealth of experience is definitely
worth tapping into....as I am sure our " truce/ result " won't last very long
Hi Kirsten Im really glad things are calm at the moment, but like you said it probably wont last long , but lets send all exs positive vibes lol
That's excellent news. Glad things seem to be on the right road now.
Subsequently I was able to hold my new grandson and give him loads of kisses and hugs not once
but twice and again tomorrow for the first time this week.
Can imagine the the grin on your face as this happened.
Gooner
Oh yes...it is sooo nice to be able to bond with the new grandchild.
Hopefully we, as the family, will see the little one regularly so he will get
used to being hugged and kissed half to death by Nanny...:):):)
Sadly....the truce didn't last.
Unfortunately there is no way of reasoning with babies mum or her family
and it has turned into a very hostile situation now....so much so that my son
has been told that he will be refused contact and although he is on the birth
certificate ( which her whole family greatly resents) he has no rights to the child
as no court would allow access....
As I said earlier...there is no reasoning with these people so it looks like
the legal route via mediation.
It is so sad...
Kirsten
That's a shame that it didn't last :boohoo:
If you have any questions, you know we're here 🙂
Yes you are right it is such a shame.
We are heartbroken but if I am honest I suspected that this would happen.
My sons ex even resents him saying its " their baby" as she thinks it's only hers
as she carried him for 9 months and gave birth.
No it is not a joke...she is very serious about it.How ridiculous can it get?
If it wasn't so sad you would have to laugh at it.
But as I said in one of my previous posts...you can't reason with the unreasonable.
Thank you so much for your support...it means a great deal to me.
Kirsten
My ex resented me when I got custody of my daughters - on the odd occasion she wrote, she'd address the envelope only to their first name as she didn't want to acknowledge that they had my name.
Maybe I am too old/stupid/ simple/dim/dense but I can't for the life of me work out
what goes on in the head of my sons ex or of her family come to that.
There is so much more I could write about their attitude which beggars belief.
They don't have any feelings,it seems to me that they are totally devoid of any emotions.
What an environment for my grandchild to grow up in....
Kirsten
Maybe I am too old/stupid/ simple/dim/dense but I can't for the life of me work out
what goes on in the head of my sons ex or of her family come to that.
Perhaps it's simply that you are reasonable and it's very difficult understand how someone else can think unreasonably. 🙂
To be honest....the more I read in this forum the more I question the motive behind some woman's
reasoning....
I have tried to understand her early in her pregnancy but there was no way that even a jackhammer
would have managed that task....
It's just so heartbreaking when my "older" 2 grandchildren ask me as they did today..."why can't xxxxxx be here?"
The grandchildren are 4.5 & 3.5 years old and miss their cousin desperately too.
Take care
Kirsten
I feel for both you , I'm going through the exact same thing that your son is going through its nearly exactly the same with my exs family pulling her strings over me and my mother seeing my daughter and the messages you said she sent your son are the same sort of messages that I get from my ex
Oh dear...
I find it so hard to stay calm....but my grandchild deserves better.
Although at the moment we see him regularly for a few hours a week, the mother
still goes off the rails on a frequent basis.
It's the insulting messages the mother sends to my son....sometimes I honestly
wonder if my grandchilds mother is from this planet....
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