Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hello all,
My situation briefly: 48 years old, married 22 years, with a daughter age 20 (in Uni) and a son age 17 (still at home). As a couple, we had stopped "working" years ago from my perspective, and I told my wife in October that, even though I still loved her in a family sense (if not anymore in a romantic way), I had met somebody else and wanted to separate. I also promised that she could stay in our house with our son, as I would be the one leaving and renting a flat, and that she would never have any money worries as long as I had money (she doesn't work). I said that I wanted things to be as amicable and peaceful as could possibly be achieved, and that more than anything I wanted the kids to be protected and kept out of it.
My wife was extremely angry - not wholly unexpected of course - and told me I had wrecked her life; this despite keeping her lifestyle, the house and full access to my salary! What surprised me more is that she told everybody who cared to listen (and many who didn't, such as all our neighbours) what an awful thing I'd done to her and what a [censored] that made me. She then proceeded to exclude me from her and my son's life, telling me I had lost the right to be part of the family, demanding that I hand back the key to the house we co-own and making it very difficult for me to see my son. As I write this in mid February, I saw the lad once briefly a month ago, and the last time before that was before Xmas.
Having waited since October for her anger to recede, I am starting to worry that it might not, and that her desire to hurt me back is going to continue dominating her behaviours, blatantly using my son as a weapon. She is fiercely driven by loyalty (frankly, more than by love) in family matters, and what I have done is apparently unforgivable. I suspect it is hugely important to her that the children take her side. At 17, the lad should of course be old enough to express his own opinion but he is under constant influence, has been under tight control all his life (my wife is - in my opinion at least - a very controlling woman) and I suspect by saying he doesn't really care whether he sees me or not, he is only saying what she wants to hear. I can't really blame him, having done the same - saying what she wanted to hear - for an easy life for many years!
My dilemna is what to do about it. On the one hand, I don't want to make things worse by making demands, potentially fuelling my wife's paranoia - which I think is two-fold: that the children will somehow take my side, and/or that I will deprive her financially - or making my son's life a misery if her behaviour becomes more extreme in reaction; besides, my son might conceivably be telling the truth when he says he isn't bothered about seeing me, since he is at an age where mates and his own social life become very important, arguably more than parents. He might of course also hold some unexpressed anger towards me.
On the other hand, I suffer badly from being away from my son, and I have this nagging feeling that he'd quite like to see me more, if only my wife could let him feel that it's ok to say so, instead of expressing bitterness and anger all the time. In truth, I'm desperate to know what he really thinks, but when I've asked him he wouldn't open up about it. At least I don't believe he hates me, as he was nice and lovely to me last time I saw him.
Happy for any thoughts or advice that folks have about what I should do next - and also who could help. Before you rush to answer, things that I have considered at length but don't believe would work are
- Reasoning with my wife; she is frankly irrational and impossible to talk to,and I am losing hope that this will change in the foreseeable future
- Threatening to cut off her finances, or to somehow legally force her to let me see my son - this would only fuel the paranoia, and might make the lad's life [censored]
- Suggesting mediation; as my wife's story is that she is 100% the victim, she will refuse to have anything to do with mediation
- Using my daughter; she has kept in touch at Uni and has been kind and understanding, but I don't think it is her role to get involved, much less to take sides
Again, grateful for any advice or creative ideas as I am quite lost over what to do
Olly
Hi there and welcome 🙂
I think there are two of those options that you could reconsider....I understand that you dont want to involve your daughter but she, as a family member, is already involved. She is quite close in age to him and will have an understanding of how he ticks. She would probably be the best person to talk to him and find out what he really wants, plus he's more likely to be honest with her than either you or your ex. I have a son and daughter, both in their twenties, they are really close and tell each other most everything, but more importantly they know each other extremely well!
The second option is Mediation, they have what called child inclusive mediation, where the child is involved in the discussion and has a say in any agreements that are made. The mediation can be steered away from marital tensions as the issues are all about seeing your son and finding out his feelings....regardless what has happened between you and your wife, your son probably needs to know that your relationship with him is not part of that. It will give you the opportunity to reaffirm your love and support for him whatever happens. Heres a link ~ www.nfm.org.uk
There is also Relate, they offer family counselling and are experienced in dealing with the fall out when relationships breakdown. Heres a link ~ www.relate.org.uk
Best of luck with it all 🙂
....Another thought Olly, does he have a mobile? That is no doubt an extremely silly question! 😆 Could you not contact him on his mob and have a chat, not about specifics but just catch ups...make it a regular thing every couple of days or so, even txts. It might help to restart your relationship.
You could try inviting him bowling or to the cinema.....he'll be able to go to the pub in another year, perhaps you could invite him for lunch and a beer, or a shandy depending on where you stand on that! Dont expect too much to begin with, but once you've broken the ice and he sees that you are serious about having a good relationship with him, he'll mellow. Just be consistent, take any knock backs on the chin and dont give up...I'm sure he'll come round 🙂
Hi, be very careful about texting/ringing him without your wife knowing. It may be a good idea while she doesn't know about it, but when she finds out (and she will) it will send her sky-high, and will probably mean your son gets a lot of grief for it too.
My wife had been sending my parents long unpleasant emails and was checking my email account regularly, so when they gave me their mobile number I saved it under a different name, so that she wouldnt find it and start ringing/texting them.
Unfortunately, they texted me just as I'd lent her my phone to read something, so she opened it and found a message signed Dad from a completely different sender........major accusations of betrayal, deception, collusion, etc...
So, if you fear that she is paranoid, then something like this is very tricky to handle..
Dear both, thanks very much for your replies. I value the advice and the spirit in which it is offered, and you're quite right Jane to push me to reconsider some of these options.
The point about not giving up is one that I am hearing consistently, and of course I intend to follow it. I have been sending the odd text, which he mostly doesn't answer, and again since I'm not sure what he really thinks I don't know whether texting more often would make things better or worse. As for mediation, I'd love to have a chance to do that and for me it's about finding the circumstances to make it happen. I don't think I can legally force it, right? So I am wondering, what could I use as a trigger to make mediation seem like a good idea all around?
The caution about the dangers of texting him behind his mum's back is also valid, and I am afraid (especially on his behalf) to do anything which might be perceived as further betrayal.
Again, keep the advice coming, it's much appreciated
Olly
Mediation can be court ordered, that could be leverage that you could use to get your ex to attend. Perhaps if you write to her and tell her that the children are a separate issue in the breakdown of your relationship. Be sympathetic and non accusatory, but tell her that your children are as important to you as they are to her, and you need to have a relationship with them and more importantly they need to have you in their lives. Ask her to attend Mediation, explain what this entails and what you hope to achieve. You could also tell her that if the situation continues for any length of time you will have no alternative but to ask the court to intervene, which is something you want to avoid for everyones sake. Perhaps you could invite your ex and your son for coffee, somewhere neutral to talk through everyones feelings, and let her know that you dont want to approach him behind her back. Thats it so much better for him to see you both behaving in a mature and balanced way, and setting a good example for him that shows him that even in the bad times its possible to behave with dignity.
It wont be an easy letter to write as you will have to choose your words carefully.....you need to be concillatory and non threatening but you also need to get your points across! If you do decide to write to her always keep a copy and send it recorded and signed for.
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.