[Solved] Access stopped, letter sent, any advice?

Re: Contact Denial to Our Children xxxxxx and xxxxxx from 10th April 2013

Dear Ms xxxxxx,

As you are obviously aware from 10th April 2013 you chose to deny me our informally agreed usual access to our children for staying contact and as yet have not informed me when the staying contact will be resumed. As of today’s date two of our usual nights of contact have been denied and I have twice sent text messages requesting to at least be able take the children for dinner to maintain direct contact with them which so far have been ignored/unanswered. The reason you have given me for your behaviour is due to recent adjustments regarding CSA payments and up until this point our current access arrangements were that you were happy for xxxxx and xxxxxx to have staying contact with me twice a week. Your reason for denying me direct contact with our children actually holds no legal weight as child maintenance payments are a completely separate issue to child access /contact and neither of these have any bearing on the other therefore contact with our children should not be being used as a bargaining tool regarding maintenance payments (which as an aside is being dealt with and paid via the CSA).

Our children have the right to contact with both of their natural parents and as parents we both have a responsibility to protect the rights of our children. At present you are not fulfilling this responsibility in that you are denying our children their right to contact with their father. By denying our children of their right to direct contact with me the children are being upset and hurt and are having the routine of their lives disrupted. Both of the children have expressed that they want to maintain the usual contact with me and xxxxx in particular has been visibly upset by the current circumstances and I fear that the upheaval and interference in her routine could cause real damage to her.

As xxxxx and xxxxx's mother I’m sure it’s safe to assume that you love and want what is best for our children just as I do and it is evident that this would be to continue their regular routine of weekly contact with their father (as we have been doing for the past 8 years) and to desist in interference with this contact as far as is reasonably practicable. I am unaware of any valid reason that you could have to disagree with this statement in relation to our children’s best interests.

I am contacting you today to request that you reinstate the usual arrangements for weekly staying contact on Wednesday and Sundays to prevent any further disruption and upset to our children and to allow them to continue their relationship with me. xxxxx and I have been in indirect contact via internet instant messaging and she has consistently asked me when she’ll be allowed to see me which proves that she is obviously upset and confused by the current circumstances and doesn’t understand the reasons why she is not being allowed to visit her father who loves and misses both her and xxxxx very much. I see no reason for our children to have to suffer or feel punished due to the differences between you and I.

Regrettably if the contact with our children is not reinstated within the next 14 days then I will be left with no alternative but to commence legal action. I feel that being forced to take this action would be detrimental to everyone involved as it will be time consuming and will obviously come with a financial cost to both you and myself (time and money that could be otherwise spent on our children). However I have been informed that I have an extremely strong case which is unlikely to fail and if this is what it takes to maintain and protect the loving relationship that I have with and that is beneficial to our children then it is a price that I am willing to pay. In the long term I feel that it will be in the children’s best interests to provide them with some stability and assurance that their father will be a constant in their lives (as I’ve always strived to be) and they won’t need to worry about when they will be allowed to see me next. I also understand that as a parent I have a responsibility to do everything I can to protect the rights of our children in this instance being their right to have a relationship with both of their parents.

I am also open to the idea of mediation as part of the official legal process to assist us in coming to a suitable agreement with regards to xxxxx and xxxxx's best interests but again this comes with a financial cost to us both. I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days and to clearing up this issue once and for all.

Yours sincerely

Hi there and welcome 🙂

Its a good letter in my opinion and takes the right tone as far as the rights of the children and the responsibilities of the parent. It doesnt come across as threatening and is balanced and reasonable.

As far as Mediation is concerned, you can do either, the invitation to attend can come from you or from the Mediator. Personally I think its sometimes better coming from the Mediator, it makes it more formal and perhaps harder to refuse.

The cost of submitting the Contact Order and application for Parental Responsibility would be £200 I believe. I seem to remember a couple of members applying for both together and being charged £200, but thats easily checked by telephoning the court helpdesk.

As far as only applying for the younger child, I would say that as it doesnt cost any more to put both names on the Contact Order form, apply for both. Only because the older child might feel slighted if not included. They come as a package and I dont think it would be right to separate them...just my opinion!

As Legal Aid has been stopped now, it levels the playing field...she will have to self represent or find literally thousands of pounds for a solicitor! I dont think it will come to that, I think that common sense will prevail once she sees you mean business! Lets hope so. 🙂

There is lots of information about the C100 form and self representing in the stickys at the top of the Legal Eagle section. Have a good read and if your not sure about anything, just ask...there are plenty here willing and happy to share their wealth of experience!

Good luck! 🙂

Thanks very much for the reply.

I wasn't sure if the letter may have been pushing it by mentioning that she isn't upholding her parenting responsibilities. It's good to get another's perspective on it.

Whether or not she'll go to mediation we're not sure but the thing that worries us is that it's not legally binding and we were hoping to be able to stop the way she constantly uses contact/access to manipulate the arrangements to what just suits her. We also think that she'll just use the mediation to try to discuss the CSA arrangements which as far as my partner is concerned is being dealt with via the CSA and shouldn't have any bearing on him being able to see his kids. The text she sent to him was that if he didn't bring the £60 (that's how much the CSA took off his payments due to him overpaying for 4 years) in cash with him then don't bother coming to collect the kids! I'm guessing she'll still get help via legal aid for mediation whereas we won't so I just hope she doesn't decide to use mediation knowing full well she won't be compliant with it. I guess we have to do that though before applying for the contact/pr order.

We were thinking the same about applying for contact for both children and how it may make it seem to the older child that he isn't as important. The only thing we thought was that the court may not see any reason to grant the order if the child will be 16 soon anyway (less than 6 months). I guess if there's no difference in cost though it makes sense to include him.

She'll receive the letter tomorrow so hopefully there will be a reply soon. I wonder if she realises that legal aid isn't available to her for solicitors anymore too.

Thanks again for your reply, I'll have a good read of the guides 🙂

If the court query it because of the age of the older child, I would just say as you have here that you dont want the older child to feel less important...I think its understandable and just shows that the childrens fellings are important to you 🙂

Hi,

Just an update my partner received a text message from the kid's Mum yesterday saying:

"Hi xxxxx. After considering our children's best interests and taking into account any concerns I have ever had about our arrangement to them staying on a school night, I am happy to negotiate and therefore reinstate access for the children to stay at your house on a Friday and/or Saturday night. That way the children are able to spend quality time with you, instead of a minimal amount of time after school and then being woken extra early to be home, tired, in time for me to take them to school. I am sure this arrangement will be much more beneficial to the children"

The main issue with this is that she knows full well that he works nights every Fri & Sat. He's also in college 2 evenings per week, in fact the only evening all week that he isn't at work or in college is Weds (one of the night's that he's been having overnight contact on for the past 8 years), meaning that Weds is the best night to spend quality time with the kids. He works full time night shifts and they're not particularly flexible with shifts, with him being in college too he can't afford to change work around. He'll be a full time degree student in Sept and will have to keep working part-time 2 nights at weekends (ruling out weekend contact). It's not ideal but needs must!

It's also strange that she's using the reason for wanting to change nights is due to it not being good for them staying here on a school night (as they've been doing for 8 years). The youngest gets up at 7am here which to us doesn't seem to be "extra early" for a school day. In fact in at times she's often wakes earlier naturally, we have to tell her not to get up too early in the school holidays! The eldest child (15 years) chooses to get up 15 mins earlier (to spend extra time faffing in the bathroom lol, typical teen). It takes 20 mins to take them home so not a particularly long journey! Their mother has mentioned in the past that the youngest is tired and acts up after she's stayed here (going to bed at 7.30pm, up at 7am, sharing a room with my daughter who is 8 ), however when we've had the kids for longer periods (in the holidays) we haven't found this to be an issue. To be honest that seemed to be another power issue with her as she stipulated that if the youngest wasn't put to bed at 7pm here then access would be stopped! She hinted then that she would prefer access to take place on weekends! We both felt that 7pm is early for a 9 year old to go to bed but did as she wished which ended up being unfair as my 2 children went to bed later...the ex didn't want her child and mine going to bed at the same time as she felt her child wouldn't go straight to sleep at 7pm (which she didn't anyway as she wasn't tired).

Before this text was received my partner was also informed by the older child via text that the youngest isn't allowed to reply to his messages (they had contact via an instant messaging app). Apparently as their mother doesn't want her to get involved in the issues between the parents although he has never used this to mention the mother or the problems ongoing just general chit chats! Their Mother then uses the older child to inform him of this!

Where should we go from here? He hasn't replied to the text from the mother. We thought we'd send a letter saying that whilst he appreciates her communication he'd prefer to negotiate using mediation and that she'll hear from them soon to arrange this. Then he's planning on arranging the initial mediation assessment & they'll ask if she'll attend.

Is this a sensible course to take?

Thanks in advance for any help & sorry for the very long post!

Just to add, the contact was stopped due to CSA issues. It was nothing to do with contact nights. She seems to be using the fact that she's withdrawn contact as an opportunity to change contact days to suit her! Child free every weekend despite not working and having just started an evening course herself! She often has the kid's grandparents provide childcare at weekends to allow her to go away with her partner so obviously if access took place at weekends she wouldn't have to worry about this anymore which will be especially attractive as she's fallen out with the kid's grandmother (ex's mum) so has to use oldest child to ask her for childcare!

Originally she stopped contact due to CSA payments being reduced by £60, she said if she was given this £60 then contact could continue as usual (Weds & Sun rather than weekends)....no problems with the nights it was taking place then!

This is what we've come up with. If anyone feels it should be changed please let me know. Thanks 🙂 ....

Dear Ms xxxxx

I have received your text message on xxxxx 2013 I and appreciate your willingness to communicate with me to reach a solution regarding this issue. I’m also happy to hear that you have been considering our children’s best interests and I assume that given your offer of negotiation and consideration of reinstating contact that you agree that contact with me would be beneficial to them.

However in my first correspondence to you I requested that contact is reinstated as per our usual informal agreement of Wednesday and Sundays, you have said “I am happy to negotiate and therefore reinstate access for the children to stay at your house on a Friday and/or Saturday night.” As you are aware that I have to work full time night shifts which include every Friday and Saturday night you’ll also be aware that unfortunately this is not something that I could commit to. I’m assuming that as you have not mentioned our usual agreement of Wednesday and Sundays that you are still withholding contact.

I have also been informed by [eldest child] via text message that you are no longer allowing[youngest child] to keep in contact with me via our internet instant messaging application. As you’ll also be aware I have written to [youngest child]to ensure that she knows that she’s loved and thought about by me but I have no way of knowing if [youngest child]has been allowed to receive my letter (this letter was posted before the text from [eldest child]). I find this removal of indirect contact with [youngest child]unfair to her as I have mentioned in my earlier correspondence that it is a child’s right to have contact with both of their parents and this right is still being withheld from her, it is a worry to me how this is making her feel.

In your text message you mention that your reason for wanting to change the nights of overnight contact is that you have in the past had concerns about the children staying with me on a school night. Although until now these concerns have not been communicated to me by you in over 7 months (throughout which our children have been having overnight contact with me on school days) and as I’d not been informed otherwise it was my understanding that these concerns were addressed and resolved. I’m unsure as to why they have resurfaced now.

Regarding your proposal of Friday and/or Saturday overnight contact you have said “That way the children are able to spend quality time with you, instead of a minimal amount of time after school and then being woken extra early to be home, tired, in time for me to take them to school.” I’d like to take this opportunity to address these concerns and to help you understand why I’m unable to commit to Friday and/or Saturday overnight contact. Wednesday afternoon/evening is the only evening of the week that I am not committed to either work or college so it is the most suitable evening to allow me to spend quality time with our children. Sunday night I have to be in work at 9pm ([youngest child]is obviously in bed by this time and [partner] is present to ensure the children are cared for in my absence), the children are usually collected at 3pm which allows me 4-6 hours of quality time with them plus I’m home for breakfast with them Monday morning before returning them home to you. With having to work 10 hours Friday and Saturday night and needing time to sleep it would be impossible for me to be able to spend any quality time with our children on these days. I’m unable to change my rota with work as I have to work full time and I’m attending courses throughout the week around my work commitments and the contact with our children, unfortunately there simply aren’t enough hours/days in the week. I would love to have every weekend off work and to be able to spend it with our children but it simply isn’t an option available to me. Due to the fact that I’m not available through the night and will be sleeping through the day I disagree that it would be in [eldest child] and [youngest child]'s best interests for contact with me to take place on Friday and/or Saturday. I’m also aware that [eldest child] and [youngest child]often enjoy staying with their grandparents at weekends and I fear that changing the current contact days to Friday and/or Saturday would interfere with this.

Referring to the concern you have raised regarding the children having to be “woken extra early” when they stay with me on school nights I can assure you that [youngest child]isn’t woken until 7am that is if she hasn’t naturally woken before this (as you’ll be aware she regularly does even during school holidays) which I believe wouldn’t generally be considered “extra early” to most children. [eldest child] chooses to get up 15 minutes before this. As you’ll be aware it is only a 20 minute journey to return the children home to you which happens after the children have washed and eaten breakfast with me, I’d be surprised if there is a significant difference to their usual time of waking on a school day.

I’m puzzled as to why you are now proposing a change of staying contact days as contact was originally withheld by you due to the adjustment of CSA payments with no expression of concern over our informal agreement of Wednesday and Sundays. Throughout the past 8 years the routine of staying contact that we had agreed was in our children’s best interests has always included Wednesday and Sunday (albeit with varying time frames and at times supplementary days/nights). I’m sure if you had valid concerns over our children’s best interests regarding the nights of contact then you would have raised and addressed them with me before this point.

In my previous letter to you I mentioned that I am open to the idea of using a professional mediation service to help us find a resolution to our current issues. As you have stated that you are happy to negotiate I feel that this could be the most suitable way forward for us all. Based on how disagreements between us have been handled in previous years I feel that a professional could help to prevent us from feeling like we’re going round in circles and not actually resolving anything. If contact still hasn’t been reinstated by xxxx 2013 I will make arrangements for myself to attend a Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting, they will then contact you to ascertain whether mediation is agreeable to you. I look forward to us finally being able to come to a mutually suitable resolution to this issue for the sake of our children.

Yours sincerely

The letter looks fine to me.

Going back to your original question and answers, I would say that you can either put the 15 year old on the c100, or if not, explain to him beforehand why you aren't going to do so (ie, because by the time it is resolved, it will be irrelevant to have him on there). As long as he knows there is a genuine reason, and that you are talking it through with him, then I don't think it would be an issue.

Thanks for the reply.

I think we'll see if mediation turns up any solutions to it all for now (I'm doubtful) and then think about the c100. I think my other half is worried that the mother may try to use the fact that contact is only being applied for the youngest child as something to use against him regarding the older child. We've no way of knowing what the kids are being told at the moment and when my other half has spoken to them (not that he can at the moment with the youngest) he avoids asking the kids anything to do with their Mum as it's none of our business and unfair to put them in that position.

Just a quick update:

It's been 2 weeks since the 1st letter was sent and other than the text from the kid's mother saying contact can only be reinstated on Fri and/or Sat (which isn't possible due to work commitments) we've heard nothing else.

My other half has sent his youngest a letter/picture just asking about school and general chit chat, he included a SAE so she could reply which she hasn't so we can only assume that her mother has withheld this from her! We could ask the older child via text if it was received but feel this may make him feel awkward. My partner wants to send his youngest another letter/little package to let her know he's thinking of her but we're unsure if she'll get it. Should he send it anyway?

He's been in touch with mediators trying to find the best value for money as we can't really afford all of this and it'll have to be paid for via credit card. He's been on the NFM website which says:

"If you are unable to qualify for public funding, Mediation Information and Assessment Meetings at an NFM service cost between £25 - £80 (which may include the fee for the completed FM1 form) and some NFM services currently provide these meetings free of charge. They usually last for 45 minutes. Mediation sessions over and above the initial MIAM are charged at a sliding scale, but start at around £80 per session, usually lasting up to 1.5 hours."

However after contacting them they emailed him with their fees which say that a MIAM and F1 will cost £95 inc VAT.

Does anyone else have any experience of NFM and there costs. We both work jointly earn less than £25,000 & have 2 dependents so I gather we won't get any help via legal aid.

Thanks for any replies 🙂

hopefully, someone else will pick up on your question on NFM, but I would definitely say that he should send a small gift - I would take it to the post office and get a proof of posting (it's free) and keep it, same goes for any letters he sends from now on. If it goes to court at any time, they will take a dim view at her not passing on letters.

Thanks for the reply.

As it happens he received a reply from his little girl yesterday using the 1st class SAE he sent with her letter from him so she has been given the letter afterall. Although it was sent 1st class on 18th April so we're unsure why the reply took 12 days to arrive. Her letter was full of pictures of us all together including my 2 children (even our pet cat) all holding hands and saying how much she loves and misses us all. It was lovely to hear from her but upsetting that her mother insists on carrying on with emotionally hurting her own child!

He's got a couple of little bits together to post to her including some pretty personalised writing paper/envelopes & some stamps so she can write to him when she likes and a card with a photo of them both together inside. He'll send them recorded as you recommend so he has proof they've been sent.

Still no word from the mother. We've been in touch with the NFM and they seem to be the most reasonably priced for the MIAM local to us, we're hoping to hear from them tomorrow to arrange it.

I wouldn't sent it recorded - that costs but it also shows an element of mistrust at the other end - just ask at the post office counter for a proof of posting, that costs nothing and there's nothing on the letter to say that you have requested this - it's basically a receipt from the post office with the post code and house number, just to say they taken the item from you.

You could be right. Having said that he sent it recorded anyway because there was a few little gifts in there so it made sense to record it.

He attended the MIAM last week & they should be inviting the mother for mediation within the next week or so & they plan (mediators) on trying to get her to attend around the middle of next month. We still haven't heard anything from her. He text her to say he's off work at the weekend (usong annual leave) & could have the children then if it's agreeable (given that she offered weekend contact) but no reply. We suspect that she's out of the country at the moment holidaying with her partner & kids being minded by someone else (she goes abroad without kids at this time every year)

Please excuse typos...usong mobile phone at the moment.

*using

since you are having problems typing on your phone, for a bit of light relief, take a look at http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com

🙂

Lol, thanks. Back on the laptop now. The mobile site doesn't allow you to edit your comments so I had to keep adding new ones!

You could be right. Having said that he sent it recorded anyway because there was a few little gifts in there so it made sense to record it.

He attended the MIAM last week & they should be inviting the mother for mediation within the next week or so & they plan (mediators) on trying to get her to attend around the middle of next month. We still haven't heard anything from her. He text her to say he's off work at the weekend (using annual leave) & could have the children then if it's agreeable (given that she offered weekend contact) but no reply. We suspect that she's out of the country at the moment holidaying with her partner & kids being minded by someone else (she goes abroad without kids at this time every year)

Just to update he received a reply the next day saying that she'd prefer that he didn't have direct contact with the kids until things were sorted out officially as she felt it would confuse them. She also mentioned that the youngest had received her card & that she (kid's mother) would be posting out youngest's reply the next day.

However we've since found out that their mother was actually abroad that week on holiday with her partner with someone else minding the kids (whilst she denies their father direct contact). She was obviously trying to hide this by saying that she would post the letter the next day when she wasn't even in the country (it wasn't sent the next day). Bearing in mind that the kids (especially the youngest who is close with her Dad) will be having a tough time at the minute with all of this it beggars belief that she can still swan off on holiday leaving the kids with whoever (her partner's family we suspect as we know it wasn't their grandparents or aunts/uncles).