[Solved] Advice needed please.

As he has been to a session and she is asking for another I think it would be advisable to go again. If at this attempt there is no further agreement then your partner can ask for an FM1 form from the mediator to say that mediation has been tried and has failed because agreement could not be reached. This form would then be submitted to court together with the application for a Contact Order.

There are many members here that have self represented and your partner will get lots of advice and support if he decides to go forward with this. It would cost £200 to submit the C100 form for contact, but if your partner is on benefits or a low income he will be eligible for an exemption from the cost.

Thank you Nannyjane. I will let him know. Is this quite normal that people agree in a session and then back down? So horrible seeing him so angry & upset....

Yes its more common than you would think ...he is fortunate to have such a caring and supportive partner in you and I'm sure you're helping him lots to get through this.

Legal aid is still available for Mediation and there is a legal aid calculator that you can access here - www.gov.uk/check-legal-aid
It might be worth checking to see if your partner qualifies.

Thanks, my partner had a recent spell of being unemployed for 3 months after being made redundant so hasn't had to pay for the session yesterday and won't have to pay now for 3 months apparently.

If she has to pay for Mediation and your partner doesn't, this could cause friction.

The form he would need to apply for an exemption from the court fee would be the EX160a.

Best of luck with it all.

edited

Hi there,
I can't see any reason why the court wouldn't accept a schedule of increasing contact. I think it shows a thoughtful approach and one that puts the best interests and well being of the child first.

The only contention might be the travelling arrangements at pick up and drop off...as your partner doesn't drive and you do this may give him some leverage. All the children are equally important and you shouldn't be expected to do anything that means your children lose out. Unfortunately all too often the onus is on the father to do most of the travelling to facilitate contact.

To be quite honest, there isn't a lot she can do to delay the decision by the judge....there are no safeguarding issues, the child has already formed a bond with your partner and he is prepared to take it slowly for her sake....If there are no DV issues, or alcohol or drug problems then I can't think of anything that will throw a spanner in the works for him.

Thank you again.

From what I have read I think your partner has been more than accommodating in how contact takes place, and the proposed future for contact. A Court would certainly have no problems with proposed contact for the future, it shows that you are considering the needs/best interests of the child.

If she has not raised issues f alcohol of drugs in mediation, I cant possibly see that she should raise that in Court. Saying that, people do, and that should be your response, that he does not do drugs/alcohol and this has never been raised previously.

Does your partner ever drive the car with you in it and the child? I could understand if that is the case, and would suggest he does not. The Court may put that into an Order, but its not something that would prevent contact taking place.

A court would consider contact every other week, half school holidays and special occasions is pretty much what they consider reasonable contact. The main is that your partner sticks to the contact or tries to stick to the arrangements made...if she does not, that will not go in her favour.

when completing the C100 remember to ask for interim contact and a contact order.

One thought - well a question - here, for EnyaM

What would be his chances of saying in court that he believes that the drug and alcohol tests are purely malicious - however he would agree to them if the court orders that when they come back clear, his ex has to re-imburse him for the cost of them? If there is a chance the court would agree to this, his ex might change her mind about insisting on them - if she objects to the idea of paying, then it implies that she knows they will come back negative.

Thanks EnyaM.

Hi Actd

I think that that is an excellent idea! I don't know if it has been done, but these days when parents are paying costs, and drug and alcohol tests are so expensive, your suggestion is brilliant! 🙂

Hi J1626

I think that if she continues to flout what has been agreed in mediation, you have no option but to consider court action, given that you have both been very accommodating in how you have handled contact and will probably be the only way of increasing contact.

Given that the child is 2...it is her feelings not her mother's that must be taken into account! Given her young age from the beginning, as I said, you have both been more than reasonable in how you have approached contact!

As for the car etc, that's a good thing, as you said she is obviously clutching at straws!

I mean if you end up being happy to stick to the 3 hours, no you don't have to take court action, because yes once you issue a C100 she may stop contact immediately. However at the same time do you continue to be controlled by her? I suppose it is a swings and roundabouts situation.

You are not waffling , you are talking about your situation! No problem with that.

Thank you Enya M

A third foreign holiday! wow!

If your partner only gets an element of what he wants to achieve, and feels that court action is the only say to go, then yes, ask for the FM1. Particularly if on agreeing in mediation, she immediately changes what has been agreed! He must remember to tell the Mediator that too!

If your partner does pursue court action she will stop contact out of spite.

Typical contact the court considers is contact every other weekend, alternate Xmas, Easter etc...ie you have Xmas Day 2013 and she has Boxing Day and the following year she has Xmas Day and you Boxing Day...some parents even share Xmas Day. While I appreciate she is still young, I am just letting you know what the Court considers is reasonable. However at your partner's daughter's the court may consider the whole weekend too much, [censored] then as I have previously said, your partner has been totally reasonable in his approach to contact and to introducing you to his child. A court will most certainly look at that as being reasonable, and all in the child's best interest.

The way you have handled contact, I totally agree, his daughter is ready to progress contact! And yes he is only asking for basic contact,and every other Saturday is reasonable...progressing to overnight contact in say 3-6 months time.

I know I have probably repeated myself..sorry! 😆

I know, right?! We've not been on one in the time we've been together! She's lucky!

I think that that he should give her a copy of the schedule at the next mediation session. Discuss it ad then halfway through/the end say tat as she changed her mind before, if she does it again, he will have no option but to issue Court proceedings. I would not mention Court straightaway as he is meant to be there to mediate and by saying that at the beginning could make your partner sound hostile.

Take a spare copy or two for the mediators too.

Good luck and let us know how he gets on.

Thank you, he had already printed off 3 copies, thinking ahead..... Thanks again for all the advice, now just wait for the appointment 🙂

Any thoughts or advice on this would be most appreciated. My thoughts are it is a step in the right direction but based on previous experience that my partner needs to proceed with extreme caution?

Thank you in advance 🙂

Great news.

I think your going the right way but would, as you are suggesting, push for more and more frequesnt contact leading to overnight stays sooner than she suggests.

Always proceed with caution but I guess you have to give her some credit for the turn around.

Just be polite and respectful but do not lose sight of quality and frequent contact and as it seems you are in more of a drivers position keep momentum.

Best wishes and good luck to you all.

Regards,

Dave

Thank you Dave, in your opinion would 2 visits per month be better for the child Obviously we feel that way but good to gain other perspectives in order to give a balanced reply / suggested pattern? Kind regards.....

In my opinion frequent regular contact would be in the best interest of the child.

One a month is not really frequent, Id prefer myself weekly but appreciate that depends on logistics and the appetite of your ex to facilitate.

Why not request weekly contact starting of for a few hours and built on the duration. This way you have a pattern of weekly contact that can be worked on and the duration extended.

frequent and regular......

Regards,

Dave

thanks

I think as he has weekly contact already, to drop that to once monthly is taking a step backwards...she's giving with one hand and taking away with the other. How about....

Whilst I appreciate your acknowledgement that we need to move forward with increased contact in our daughters best interests, I feel that reducing our contact to once monthly is in fact a step backwards and would only create confusion for her. As you know, children need consistency and routine to feel secure and I feel that the appropriate way forward now would be to increase the contact time without reducing the frequency too much. I suggest we meet in the middle and agree on a full day every other weekend, either Saturday or Sunday, whichever suits you. If that goes well and xxxx is happy and settled, after 3 months we can extend the full day to incorporate an overnight stay at each fortnightly visit. After a further 3 months, all being well that could then be increased to a full weekend. Arriving at a full weekend every fortnight within the next 6-9 months shows a measured approach and is thoughtful to the needs of our daughter, it also gives you time to get used to the changes, I do understand that your feelings need to be taken into account and I think if we can agree this will help us all to move forward amicably with our daughters well being at the forefront of the decisions that we make.

🙂

Nicely worded NJ...progressing contact should proceed more speedily now and not 12 months as has been mentioned!

I would agree generally with NJ, the future element is something that is looked at and considered quite readily and often if Courts are going to make a ruling, overnight (if it hasn't happened before) will be set for Xweeks down the line, i believe moreso to allow the custodian parent the chance to get used to the idea that it is happening... i believe it was once said in the Family Courts system (taken from some "expert") happy mother happy child, however we are finding that this is not the case.

Me personally, i would be asking;
i) that contact be increased within the next 2weeks from 3hrs to a full day 9-5, at 3.5yrs and with over 2yrs of this arrangement, this should have happened much much sooner
ii) that after this increase in contact,after 10weeks an overnight stay begin to happen each weekend with a view to this increasing to a level of your choosing

Remember, the Courts hold quality time in front of quantity of time. This unfortunately for children actually holds no fruit. As NJ has said, don't take a step backwards with the once per month, how can a child learn to trust someone and truly form a meaningful bond in a 3hr session or once per month?

Contact needs to be set along a structured routine, be consistent and have plenty of time.

They're not at the court stage yet Yoji... So he has a little leeway, he doesn't want to make her feel backed into a corner or start in with what a court might order...gently, gently, catchey monkey.... As you know its much better to avoid the court route, and if that can be accomplished with a little give and take its all good!

Of course the next phase is to discuss extra holiday time and shared special occasions.

...gently, gently, catchey monkey....

😆

...I do a good turn of phrase! 😆

Hahah! Yes sorry I didn't do that "quote" very well did I? 😆

Thank you very much everyone, my partner has used some of the 'phrases' from Nannyjane's response and sent a response to his ex, will let you know how he gets on.

Fingers crossed then!

thanks

Was wondering if, in the absence of legal aid for these cases if there is anywhere my partner can go to for advice on what to respond or if court would be better etc that won't cost a fortune as money is extremely tight at the minute?

...I got the impression that she was offering just one visit per month....if she's offering a weekly visit and for her to bring his daughter to you for one visit a month, with the understanding that overnights could start in 6-12 months....well a court might see that as reasonable taking into account the child's age. I do think the weekly visit should be increased to a full day, in which case you could drive there and back and still have a good length of time with her.

Mediation could sort this out but I think next time you would need to have her agreement that it be written up there and then and then have the solicitor make it into a legally binding document.

It's a tough one because she is being seen to be moving the contact forward.

As far as help for LIPs there are Mckenzie Friends, but they also charge, although nothing like the fees solicitors ask for. Some solicitors offer a free half an hour consultation, you might like to consider this as a way of getting some legal advice....but you need to be aware that there are some solicitors out there that would advise court purely because of the financial benefits to them!

You could contact the Coram Childrens Legal Centre, there's a link to their website at the bottom of the page... They will give free legal advice, as will the CAB.

Families Need Fathers also run meetings nationally, just look for a branch near where you live... and they are a pretty good resource......often there are legally trained/experienced people at the meetings that will give assistance. I directed one of our members to one of their meetings and he was given help on a couple of issues...that was a branch in London.

Thank you Nannyjane.

If you can message me and let me know the area you live in and the area you would go to court ( its better to choose a court nearer to the mother as they will fine move this to their vicinity and ts all delays then ) I might be able to suggest someone.

I do understand, and i can see why you are feeling controlled by it all.....I'm just responding how a judge might respond.

If this can't be sorted out in mediation then I guess the only avenue open to you is court.

The only thing I doubt you will get any change on is the travelling, most dads will tell you it's usually they that are expected to do the pick up/drop off which is totally unfair....however as she drives and your partner doesn't theres a small chance there might be some flexibility offered in court.

Have you written to her and told her that if she won't agree to more sessions with the mediators and won't consider the schedule you propose that you will have no choice but to apply to the courts for a defined contact order. Explain how this would be a last resort but one that you are prepared to take to get reasonable access in place for her. That it is her right to have her father fully involved in her life, and also to meet and bond with her extended family...and that she can only benefit from this. Tell her that you have been more than patient out of respect for her wishes as the mother but the time has come for contact to move forward.

thanks

Was wondering if, in the absence of legal aid for these cases if there is anywhere my partner can go to for advice on what to respond or if court would be better etc that won't cost a fortune as money is extremely tight at the minute?

www.rcjadvice.org.uk ....might be an option.

www.barprobono.org.uk/overview.html ..... might help.

...Ive sent you a PM.

thank you, have replied to you 🙂

thanks

...I think your running out of options!
Maybe look for some research that backs up more involvement and the importance of shared care. She can hardly argue against accepted research on what is best for children of separate parents....but she probably will!

I'll have a look at some of the information/Factsheets I have in my file and post you some links later....right in the middle of cooking Sunday dinner at the moment but I will get back to you.....other than that I think you're going to have to accept that she won't budge and its time to move it forward, as she is refusing more mediation then as you know the next step is court.

I'm glad you found the MF I proposed useful....he did come recommended by a friend!

Thank you Nannyjane, what would we do without you? 🙂

Anything you can advise / links you can provide or even one of your 'turns of phrase' would be amazing and much appreciated. Do you think that in response at this stage my partner should indicate that if she is unwilling to attend mediation to discuss the matter further that he will be making an application to the courts and how best he would phrase that without sounding threatening?

oh, forgot to mention she also said she didn't see the point of spending money to see a mediator to have an agreement drawn up as she is under the impression that the only way to formalise an agreement is to attend a court hearing, we were under the impression that if they reach an agreement and have it drawn up that it is then sent to a court to be 'rubber stamped' not attend a hearing? Maybe we are wrong here?

I was under the impression that you could get agreements rubber stamped too but having looked for clarification I can't find any so it would be useful to call CORAM...there's a link at the bottom of the page.

I do think your next response to her should indicate that you feel you are fast running out of options and that court looms.

.... I am so disappointed that we don't seem to be any closer to reaching an agreement that we are both happy with. I have looked into other options available to us to help us reach an agreement, but barring Mediation, this only leaves an application to court for a defined contact order. As you must appreciate this would be a last resort and a step that I am loathe to take. We both love xxxxx unconditionally, this is something that we share and for that reason I would hope that we can be mature enough to rise above any personal issues we might have and act in the best interests of xxxxxx.

I have every respect for you as as mother and I do understand the concerns you have, I think I have tried hard to be thoughtful of your feelings, I have been patient and have agreed without complaint to your terms up until this point. I urge you to reconsider, if not to my proposals then at least to giving mediation a fair crack of the whip.. If we can't reach agreement on this then you really give me no other choice and I will seek resolution through the courts.

To help you to understand my position I have included some research that i hope will help you to understand that my actions are purely to promote xxxxx well being, my only motivation is to provide her with the building blocks that will offer her the best possible outcomes in life.

.....some of these links are about shared care but as you know that doesn't mean 50/50 split. The links to Mr Millers blogs are just really informative and I'm sure you'll find arguments to back up your proposal there....happy reading!

www.thecustodyminefield.com/SharedCareResearch.html

www.sharedparesearch.blogspot.com/

www.deferolaw.com/profiles/blogs/shared-parenting-the-psychological-and-sociological-evidence

www.thecustodyminefield.com/Factsheets/TCM-ResearchSupportingSharedCare.pdf

These next links are to the work/blogs of Kip Miller a recognised expert in family law. He wrote a book called
Even Toddlers Need Fathers

www.eventoddlers1.blogspot.co.uk

www.kingsleymillerblog.wordpress.com

www.eventoddlersresearch.blogspot.co.uk

www.eventoddlers.xtreemhost.com

Ah Nannyjane, I love you! Thank you so much, sometimes I think you get so embroiled in the situation it's hard to see the wood for the trees.

sorry, another thought really while reading through some of the research, I know she will say,' I'm not disputing contact' as her latest document does say that she accepts it is in their daughters best interests to have a relationship and she is happy to work towards overnight visits but then follows this by saying this will not happen for 12 months and the refusal to attend mediation as it will not alter her stance as she believes she is acting in the best interests of the child and there is no other way to approach this other than hers, interestingly she has not commented on any of partners suggestions, just ignored them.

thanks

How about this link, this a CAFCASS document I think so you could point out that if it were to go to court this would be the very least you might expect and it's a guideline that the court usually use.

www.familieslink.co.uk/pages/court_reporters_cafcass_child_contact.htm

will include that, thank you!

Coram confirmed that you can't send a consent order agreement made in mediation to be 'rubber stamped' unfortunately......

I'm sure I read somewhere on the NFM website about being able to get agreements made legally binding so I'll see if I can find it!

I have helped my partner compose what we feel is a solid and firm response, will send it off when we have found someone suitable to look over it. Thank you for all the advice 🙂

...looked on the NFM site, it's changed it's format and I just couldn't find the previous entry that I know I saw previously!

Your MF contact might be a good person to look over it, or an FNF advisor at one of their meetings... did i send you the link to the page about locating a branch meeting near to you? if you click on the nearest branch to your location you will most likely find some contact details for the organisers of the particular branch, you could make contact and ask their advice ...if you'd like me to, I am also happy to help!

thank you, have pm'd you....

Wow I have learned so much from this thread. OP I sincerely hope your O/H gets his contact sorted out swiftly- to an impartial outsider it really reads as if you are both handling things fairly and sensibly- and if I can see that, I am sure a court will too.

Thank you NJ and Teacher, let's hope so hey? My partner has drafted a letter basically saying what NJ suggested, that he will if necessary, make an application to the courts so now we wait and start filling out a c100 so that he's 'ready to go' should the inevitable happen......Thank god for this forum and the people on it that take the time to help!