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[hide]Hi All, I am a new comer to the forum, my Son is 6 years old and seven in July, I moved out of the family home 5 years ago as I could not stay in the relationship any longer
I have had regular contact with my Son but only during the day and on his Mothers terms, I have been asking as per my sons wishes that he comes and stays with us overnight for one night per weekend initially and then full weekends as my daughter and I both wish to spend more time with him and he has expressed to me that he wants to stay with us.
My ex is a single working Mum, her Mother generally looks after my Son the majority of the time, she is always at work, this is not due to being a sinlge parent she has always just cared about the job since he was born moved her Mother in to our house and went back to her job, she never looks after him after school, she is always at work.
My Wife looks after our Daughter full time and is a housewife, I think we have a really stable family environment for my Son and his only sibling and i wish they could spend more time together - we recently took him to his first holiday with us outside the UK and it was great to have him there, since coming back, both my Son and I have asked that we should now have overnight stays but after asking again by email, the ex sent the following reply... nearly all of it is untrue... it really is my Sons wishes to come and stay... as well as mine but now his Mother is silencing his requests, he is scared to keep asking... I really want to go to court and get this sorted, I have offered mediators in the past for both payments and contact to no avail she loves the CSA and she loves being in control of my sons contact.
Can I have your views of the next steps... please read between the lines on her email below, as I take my son to tennis every week, i pick him up on sunday morning on time without fail, alhtough I pay the CSA i get him everything he needs, my family all put this down to jealousy on my ex's part but I really need advice as all the literature says go to mediation first but what does everyone think... does anyone have a good solicitor or collaboratvie family lawyer that they could recommend to me? in the watford or London area - its been 5 years and my Son still does not come to stay with his other family, his step mum and his little sister...
I appreciate any advice you can give - you will see from reading the below she has taken her time to calculate this reply and it is full of lies..
"Hi James,
I understand it is frustrating to see that other children of divorced parents have overnight stays with their fathers. However, the circumstances in each family are different. There are a few reasons why I do not believe Leo should be having overnight stays with you at this stage.
Firstly, I do not believe that you insist upon overnight stays because you want to spend more time with Leo. When Leo was born you chose to sleep in a different room instead of with him and you continued to do so until our relationship ended. In the past 4.5 years, during which we have been separated, Leo has never wished to stay overnight with you. Out of the 9 nights of the recent holiday this month, Leo has spent half in his grandparents’ room or his aunt’s room and not with you. Why did you not use the opportunity for a sleep over when you had it?
Last Sunday, 21st April 2013, was the first time that Leo was looked after by your wife at your new address. Leo told me you were resting upstairs while he was with her in the garden where he fell down and came back home with 7 splinters in his hand. On that same night after this happened his sleep was disturbed and unsettled, he was afraid to sleep on his own. Leo has only just met your wife a few months ago when she arrived in the UK. As far as I know, she does not have much experience looking after Leo and I worry about him being left on his own with her. When you see Leo on one day in the weekend instead of spending this time with him, you leave him with your wife so that she looks after him.
Secondly, you say that you can provide a more stable home for Leo. I disagree. In the past 4.5 years you have changed your address 6 times, you have changed your mobile number 6 times. For over a year you refused to give your address and mobile number. I think this fact alone shows that you are not yet settled in yourself, let alone being able to provide Leo with the stability and security that you talk about in your emails. Leo is growing up as a happy and confident child. Leo is happy with his routine at the moment. So introducing overnight stays now will not give Leo more stability.
Thirdly, I think that Leo will not be getting enough sleep if he is spending a night at your place regularly. I have made requests to you in the past to make sure Leo has 10 hours of sleep during the night. Every time you have been away on holiday with him and your parents, Leo did not have enough sleep and came back very tired. He told me he played video games until midnight or 11pm and he woke up very early in the mornings around 5-6am. I feel that due to this lack of proper sleep, Leo fell down and hurt both of his eyes on separate occasions while you were on holiday. If this continues then regular overnight stays will lead to regular lack of sleep and proper rest which will have a negative effect on Leo’s health.
Even if the all of the above issues were to be resolved, the middle of the school year is not a good time to change Leo’s routine. I believe that it will greatly disturb his school work and daily routine. Leo knows that he will see you every weekend. This is very regular and predictable and Leo knows when he is going to spend time with you. Leo is happy with our plan as it is at the moment and I do not think we should change it now.
Since your return from holiday on 8th April 2013, Leo has been told by you to ask for a “sleepover” with you. Leo is finding it worrying and confusing when you try to talk him into staying overnight with you. He shares these worries with me. He worries that he will make you angry and sad if he refuses and for that reason he feels like he has to agree with you. It is not fair for a 6 year-old child to be put under pressure like this. Please take this into account and avoid involving Leo in this decision as I believe this is something me and you need to agree upon.
Thanks and regards,
Aneta"[/hide]
[hide]Hi there,
Firstly I have hidden the text in this post from non members as it contains details of your ex and it may cause further issues for you if she were to stumble upon it.
I think that if she won't attend mediation (which I think offering to pay both your bills was very generous) then your only option would be to go to court, a solicitor couldn't enforce she allow overnight contact only a judge could do this.
You don't need a solicitor to go to court as you can represent yourself, from what you have said you have a strong case for overnight contact and she has allowed holidays which removes any excuse of safety.
The courts view would be that children are adaptable to change and that your child will handle the change in their own way.
I would maybe try offering mediation again though before applying to court, to have a fresh decline would make court easier and probably quicker as if mediation was asked for a while ago the court could say things were too raw at that stage and ask for you to attend again now. If they do at least you have already tried to ask her before court, it also shows you have tried to resolve without the courts help.
GTTS[/hide]
Hi we as a family have been where you are now, without the holidays tho. We had no option after 3 years of asking but to go to court as there was always an excuse to why no stay overs were allowed. When we had the first hearing (direction) cafcass recommended mediation, and that's the route we took. In our case mediation was successful and an agreement was reached and the mediator was excellent and the statement a fm1 form was allowed in the court room and an order was made we start stay overs in July.
You can start both procedures together so not to waste time, I will warn you though she may stop contact when she gets the court letter.
You need to fill in a c100 form for defined contact , explain in section seven what you would like, as in over night stays , I would go for alt weekends now , arrange holidays, Christmas , birthdays etc. It will cost you £200, you have to send the form to the nearest magistrates court to where your son lives, it takes about 6 weeks to go to court, you have to serve her the papers a few weeks before. In the mean time I would get in touch with family mediation and make an appointment for your self it will cost you between £80 to 120 an hour , after your assessment they will write to your ex and invite her to attend.. If she doesn't you can get the mediator to fill in the fm1 so you can take this to court . I cant see any reason why you will not now be granted overnight stays
thanks to GTTS and AK57 for the advice..
I think I will push forward now to get this resolved formally as ultimately the decision should not be hers to make, it should be my sons decision... I have just agreed to everything since I left...change of days etc at her whim (including yesterday after sending that email to me refusing stay overs asking to swap days..again which I always agree to, well no choice!!!), hopefully through mediation, but like many on here ... i hold out little hope as the ex is so reluctant to lose the control she has over this situation and is as stubborn as a mule.....
its ridiculous that the default position in this country is the child resides with the Mother who works full time anyway, when the child has a stable family unit and one of their siblings living near by... it doesnt seem logical...but i would galdly settle for one night per weekend..
Please AK or anyone else, can you be more specific with what contact I should request (obviously as much as possible but realistic)
Alternate Weekends - Friday after school until Sunday evening?
School Holidays - 50% of summer school holidays plus 2 half terms and a week at Easter and week at Christmas (my sons school has a lot of holidays).
1 evening per week after school?
Also - AK57 can you please provide me with the name of your mediator (via PM) or at least the same firm - you mention family mediation, i take it that is the firm name?
I really appreciate your help all of you... THANK YOU
Me and my partner have been through this.
He has two children with his ex and only saw them on her terms and after I moved in I asked how often they stay over and he said that in the 2 years since she left him they had never stayed over.
When he first mentioned it to her she went mad and had a hundred excuses but after 8 months of arguments she finally gave in. It was always irregular though as they could only stay over if she didn't have any plans etc.
In the end they discussed mediation but she refused. She then went to mediation(always has to be on her terms) but he refused on the grounds that she is utterly impossible and he just doesn't have the money.
So anyway, in jan this year he asked if we could take them on holiday for 4 nights during their summer holidays. She obviously said no and said it was not up for discussion. So he filled out a C100 for a specific issue order and filed it the next day. She opposed the order on the grounds that she thinks he would abduct them to South America. ( he has heritage there but was born and raised in the uk).
At the first hearing the judge ignored the holiday thing and clearly understood that she is a trouble maker and asked for it to be changed to a contact order. The judge asked about mediation and he explained why he refused and it wasn't mentioned again.
It was a lot easier than we expected and he's done it all himself with help from this forum and CORAM CLC . Good luck!
Hi the norm so to speak at your child’s age is alternate weekends Friday pick up after school if possible to Sunday afternoon or even take to school on Monday morning. The alternate week is have him one night, pick up from school take school next day, Holidays you can go for half and expect to give a little , they say always go for more so they can still control by giving you less, reverse phycology , mind games !!
www.nfm.org.uk are really well priced.
We used a mediator who was also family solicitor, not cheap but really knew her stuff. Its best to use one as close to the child’s mother as possible this way you are seen to be trying to accommodate her.
I agree with AK,
The norm (there is no real norm as each case will be different) is every other weekend, minimum of 2 weeks in the summer hols and as much of the other holidays as you can get, as said go for as much as you can and be ready to back down to show willing to compromise.
Don't forget though about Christmas, Birthdays, Bank holidays and any other dates that may result in issues, the more that is agreed and written the easier it will be to move forward without constant battles.
Make sure the order covers foreign travel as well or you may find your ex stop[ping this meaning going back to mediation or court for an amended order.
If you go down the mediation route and reach an agreement ensure this is written into a legal order as mediation isn't legally binding and can be ignored by either party without repercussions, as its a "without prejudiced" agreement. a solicitor can make it legal or to ensure there is no issues in the future you could apply to the court for a formal contact order to be written to meet the agreement you have made in mediation, this would (as far as I know) mean having to attend court but would (i'm sure) incur the cost of applying to court.
GTTS
Hi All
after attending mediation and my sons mum refusing to budge I raised the the C100 and yesterday was the intial hearing - having never previously had staying contact and my exs counsel resisting as hard as possible.. the Judge has put an interim order in place from saturday morning until sunday evening and after school every wednesday until 7pm - this is an interim measure and i will be asking for more time aftert the section 7 is complete etc... but the precedents set now and staying contact is taking place...no reason why that shouldn't move to shared residence....
My son is coming to stay from next weekend..... very impressed with both CAFCASS and the Judge (as well as my counsel who was magnificent).
Thanks for the advice here - although I didnt go it alone, i still took from valuable advice from memebers of this forum so much appreciated!!
Good news.
Glad to hear that CAFCASS and the Judge have supported you, pity it can be such a lottery when it comes to both.
You can only get more contact from there I am sure.
Regards,
Dave
That's great news and goes some way in restoring a little faith in the justice system. We need the success stories, it spurs us all on, so thanks for dropping by.
I bet you can't wait for next weekend! Have a wonderful time with your son!
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