[Solved] Change in Contact Order

OK, basic answers are that she can move anywhere in the UK she wants, as long as there is a good reason to do so (ie, she's not moving simply to obstruct contact), and she is allowed to take your daughter abroad for up to 4 weeks without the court's permission - if this is an occasional trip, then although it's in breach of the contact order, a court would be unlikely to penalise your ex. If it's happening a lot of times, then she is breaching the contact order blatantly, which is a different matter altogether.

However, the question I would first ask is whether you think there is any chance that you could mutually agree on a change in contact - if you can come up with an alternative arrangement (more time with you but spaced further apart, and travel costs split, for instance), then I think it would be possible to agree to vary the order by consent - you would need to clarify this with the Children's Legal Centre to confirm if this is possible, and how to do it.

thanks for your post.

thing is Im on benefits and can't even pay for the split travel cost. Is there any solution to this? Can the court ask her to do travelling to and fro for my contact?

What are the possible reason she can use to move away from me, which I won’t be able to decline even though through PSO prohibited steps order

One more thing, Im having telephone contact with my daughter 2 days a week but after the final court order this telephone contact is not mentioned in the draft. She is allowing me the telephone contact, but she denies saying its not there in court order! what can do in this case?

Please advice

To be honest, unless she is only moving away to make contact difficult, and for no other reason, then I would say that your chances of preventing it a slim. It is possible for the court to order that she pays for travel costs, but there are not guarantees you will be successful - and it may also depend on whether paying for your travel expenses would have any impact on the children's welfare. I would also have doubts whether a court would order that your daughter would have to travel for a 7 hour round trip on a regular basis, it's a lot for a child of that age to endure - staying contact on school holidays might be different, so you may have more luck with this.

I would say that if you have concerns that your ex is going to restrict telephone contact, then you should look at having this included in the contact order - it may be a matter of mentioning that if she does restrict phone contact, then you will apply to have it included in a contact order, that may be enough to ensure telephone contact continues.

All the above are only my opinions of possible outcomes, there are no guarantees of how a judge will rule on the day, so I would use the information I have posted to help you discuss where you go next with your solicitor, or the Children's Legal Centre.

Hi Info

Firstly a warm welcome to the Dadtalk site. I hope you are going to find the advice you need. Clearly you are going through a distressing, uncertain time right now and of course you want to maintain the contact you have with your daughter.

I have passed on your posts to the Childrens Legal Centre for their advice. They will come back to you in a few days, so do look out for their reply.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the post, really appreciate your help

Let me reaffirm my concerns:

1. Can she go away to other locale stating she got a job or she got family there(which is 3 and half hours away from me)? Looking at cases in the past, is there a definite reason she can use to move away from me, which is undeniable?
2. If we both are on benefits, who is responsible for paying the travelling cost? Even split is not an option for me. Can she do the travelling to and fro for my contact?
3. What are the issues I can raise to stop her from moving? I admit she is a good mother but travelling long distance is something I don't want to do!
4. And lastly, when she has to inform me about moving away? Two week or a week before she moves?

waiting for the response.

I think it's more a matter that you'd have to show a reason why she shouldn't move, and unless you can show that she's only moving to make contact difficult, then I think that you would have little chance in succeeding - moving to be near her family isn't unreasonable and my personal opinion is that a court would be unlikely to prevent a move.

If you are both on benefits, I would imagine that a court would be unlikely to make her pay for your travel, as by doing so, it would would be a significant chunk out of the money she needs for essentials.

I'm not aware of any specific notice period she has to give you, or if there is any period at all, in fact.

Hopefully, the Childrens Legal Centre will give you a more complete answer.

Dear Info,

Thank you for contacting the Children’s Legal Centre, we apologise for the delay in responding to your query.

As previous posts have said, the resident parent has the ability to move wherever they wish within the United Kingdom and does not require consent of the other parent to do this, although she should inform you of her decision. The mother can tell you she is moving at any time, including after she has done it, there is no law to state when you should be made aware of this decision.
You do have the ability to make an application to court to attempt to prevent this move if you wish to do so, and would do this by applying for a Specific Issue Order to the Family Proceedings Court where the previous order was made.
The courts are reluctant to prevent a parent from moving if it is for a good reason, such as employment opportunity, to be closer to family and other such reasons and it is very rare that they would do this. The court may prevent the move if it is thought to be purely for malicious reasons such as obstructing your contact with your daughter.
There is no reason that you can use to be guaranteed that the court would prevent the mother moving, as this is her right, and it is completely up to the judge on the day whether to prevent this, but it is rare that a court will stop a parent moving to be closer to family or some other such genuine reason.
If you are not aware of the move until after it has occurred, you would then have great difficulty in doing anything as the court would generally not order that the mother then move back to the area, so as you are aware of this move now it would be best for you to apply to the court at this time if that is what you wish to do.

As there is a contact order in place, the mother should comply with this, however if it is not practical for this contact to continue, you and the mother are able to attempt to agree something alternative yourselves. If you do choose to do this it may be best to put anything agreed by you in writing, although this will not be legally binding it can be used to show the court what was agreed if there is later a breakdown in the contact.
If you have solicitors there is the possibility of having anything that is agreed placed into a consent order, which basically means that your agreement would be shown to the court, and if they feel it is fair it would be stamped and would become legally binding.

If you and the mother can not agree to alternate contact, then either of you are able to make an application to the court for a variation of the order at any time. This would allow the court to decide what contact is appropriate for your daughter considering the distance involved if the mother were to move out of the area.
As you have had a good relationship and regular contact with your daughter, the court will generally wish to continue with this and still allow as much contact as is practical in the situation. They are able to replace midweek contact with telephone contact if they feel that this is best for your daughter.

With regards to the costs of travel, again you can attempt to agree this with the mother. At present she is under no obligation to share the travel with you, as the standard position is that the person who is awarded contact will collect and return the child, unless something different is provided for in the contact order. It is unusual and very unlikely that the resident parent would be required to perform all the travel or pay the full costs of this, it is more likely to be split between you, but it would be for the court to decide.
The court can place it in an order that travel is to be shared, or costs of travel are to be shared, but this will be at their discretion and usually only applies when there is considerable distance involved, which there would be should the mother choose to relocate. If this matter is not addressed in court, then the mother will not be required to share travel or the expenses with you and it will be expected that you do this yourself.

With regards to holidays, your daughter lives with the mother and this means that the mother is the resident parent. If she is the resident parent by virtue of a residence order issued by the court, then the mother will have the right to take your daughter abroad for up to one month without your consent, even if this does mean that you miss some of your contact time with your daughter. There is no requirement on the mother to owe you this time back and if she did give this back to you it would be purely by agreement with the mother and you could not enforce this.
If the mother does not have a residence order then she should be seeking your consent for any trip abroad regardless of how long this is for. However in practical terms it is unlikely that she would face any penalty if she does not so long as the holiday is for less than one month.

Although a holiday may breach the contact order, it is expected that parents are reasonable and attempt to negotiate with each other and there is some leniency for reasons such as illness or holidays and therefore it is unlikely that the mother would face any penalty by the court, unless she were doing this repeatedly to obstruct your contact with your daughter.

The contact that you are entitled to is the contact stated in the order, although other things may have been discussed during the court proceedings it is the contact specified in the order that you are entitled to, so if telephone contact is not stated in the final order then this will be at the mother’s discretion.

We hope that this information is useful to you, should you require further advice please contact the Child Law Advice Line on 0808 8020 008 and an advisor will be happy to help you.

Kind Regards
Children’s Legal Centre