[Solved] child not wanting to go with NRP

I'm sorry to hear this Dad-i-d...Its such a pity the mother isnt giving any encouragement to your son. I think this is part of PA and there is a fantastic blog that you should have a look at run by a real expert in this field, a lady called Karen Woodall. Heres a link to it -

www.karenwoodall.wordpress.com

She has written books and runs classes and this is her sphere of expertise. She is very well respected and above all very caring and I'm sure she will give you some advice. She can be contact by email at -

Clinic@separatedfamilies.org.uk

email sent, no response as yet.

i've also decided to contact the Judge via the court and see what my options are, i've an enforcement order attached to the contact order with penalties of possible imprisonment if she fails to comply....i really don't want the courts to send her to prison for my sons sake but i'm really at a point where if they don't act and force her to comply then its probably F4J time.

What did you think of Karens blog dad-I-d? I found her to be a very dedicated woman who empathises with the casualties of PA! Generally fathers and children.... She has invited me to one of her Practitioners Workshops later on this year. I had to point out that I was just an ordinary member of a Forum that tries to help Dads and not a professional!

I hope she gets back to you, she has written some books on the subject that are designed to help so it might help to get your hands on one.

NJ. i've not had chance to read through Karen's blog fully but what i have certainly makes interesting reading.

i've had a response from Karen and i've forwarded it on to my ex in a hope that the information contained will help her understand what her actions are doing to our child.....i know though that unless she comes to her senses that she will never take any notice of anything that any "expert" puts to her if she thinks otherwise!.....my ex believes she is right and everyone else is wrong! it;s 'Her way or the highway!'

Well thats something....I felt sure Karen would get back to you and I really hope it helps the ex to see sense....its all about the children!!! 🙂

I don’t know what to do now…..the issues I’m having seem only to be getting my little one from his mother because once he’s away from her he’s absolutely fine. The issue I have now is getting him from my ex to come with me and in my opinion a lack of my ex helping our son’s transition to seeing me more regularly again.

I have a Contact order with enforcement order of committal to prison should she fail to stick to the contact ordered which I’d rather not follow through on for fear of what it may do to our son.
I’ve spoken to the court yesterday and they say that I can apply for a committal to prison but I have to prove she is breaking the order and that is where I’m worried.
How can I prove she is failing to stick to contact when she turns up at the contact but cannot get our son to come with me….she will no doubt claim he has choice and its his choice not to come with me.

As I see it I have to prove in court that she is actually preventing contact to get the courts to force her to do more….but still how do I prove it when she turns up every week at our agreed collection point?

How do I get her to help our son more if it is her preventing the transition of attachment when she thinks she is helping and “its his decision” as she puts it!

I’m starting to feel there is no way I can get this resolved or backed up by the courts….its £90 to apply for the Application for committal, £90 I really cannot afford right now and £90 that I’ll be throwing away if they don’t resolve this. I never got the £200 back from the enforcement order I had to get for her breaking the contact orders.

I’m at a loss as to my next move.

...What about a solicitors letter reminding her of her obligations to facilitate contact and the consequences if she continues to work against you. Perhaps include some suggestions about how to make the hand over easier for your son by being more pro active and using encouraging words of reassurance by being firm but kind. Maybe include a little bit about PA and what parents can do to prevent this, which is after all in the best interests of your child. Mabe attach a copy of the email you received from Karen.

Run out of money for solicitors letters, plus i'm still paying off the several thousand £££'s i still owe them from 2yrs ago when i had them costing me money with no results!

NJ - Sending you a PM

Hi can you ask at the contact centre if handover can be with a member of the contact staff rather then directly with the mum/ He may feel he is being disloyal to his mum due to the rubbish he has been fed, but if his mum wasn't in the room at hand over he my be fine

we dont use a contact centre, just a local neuatral public venue for meeting for handovers
it worked well when we first split n she took up with her new fella n didnt want me collecting our son from her the house. worked well the first 3 times since march too just wish she'd let someone else bring him and then i'm sure it'd be no issue for him to come with me, i just dont trust anyone around her not to cause problems.
plus she dont want me slipping the truth out to a yone she knows lol

he's always been great whe she's not around...as soon as he's with me and away from her he is great with me...no concerns or worries just how he always is...happy n loving n we have good

Sorry to hear this, sounds very much like she is not ecnouraging him and potentially turning him against you.
My wife had this with her son and ex, and for some reason although she wasn't poisioning him agains the father, he just didnt want to go. Would cry and cilng on to my wife.
Best thing she did was explain to the child, he had to go until he was older and understood and that daddy would like to spend time with him, and was firm. Made him go, and left with him crying which although was heart wrenching for her, it soon settled.

I think mum in your case, needs to have more back bone when it comes to the child, which will instill confidence in the child.
I agree, I would maybe write to her and send recorded stating that you are not happy with the way things are etc etc, failing that you will need to go back to Court or perhaps try mediation if she will attend

hope it all gets sorted though

i've been speaking with the ex but all i ever get from her is "its his decision to come or not....you should see the problem i have just getting him here" 'here' being the handover point (a well known fast food chain).

the problem is she always says "he is a person and has a right to decide for himself" the judge and parenting experts disagree with her on that one...as do i....but its her way of trying to keep control and prevent the contact.

i've been chatting with a parenting expert over the last few days and am awaiting some structured response to use to get the ex to see what she's actually doing to our son....although i'm fairly certain she knows that shes just helping prevent me seeing him.

the upshot of the chats are coming to the same conclusion no mater what angle i aproach it from....back to court is the only way to force her to really cooperate and promote me in his life again.

what about changing the handover or doing this at each others houses, more positive for the child?
Like you say though probably still fruitless given these strange deranged women we all seem to have to contend with

Hope you get it sorted

I was just thinking the same as bobbya, what about grannies house or a friends or somewhere new and exciting , swimming , whacky, go carting ....

there are no "middle men" i can use, grandparents on her side are no one i could trust or rely on....and on my side granddad golfs saturday's n granny well she can't stand to be anywhere near the ex after what she has put not just me but th whole family through with her lies!
so i'm pretty much restrcited to me collecting....we use the "neutral ground" for drop off/pick up because the ex won't travel any further or let me collect from the house for her own f*cked up reasons.

and i'm now confused again...got to spend time with the little one saturday...4 week gap and he came with me without issue! we had a good fun time, he never stopped smiling or laughing while we were together so i know its her thats stopping him wanting to come with me.

although i'm sure there will be issues this coming weekend as shes already told me that there are school friends parties to attend on both days....she wasn't impressed when i said i'd take him on my day then!

ah well....think the best way orward is to go for the Application for Committal.....i can see her keep stopping my contact when she feels like it despite the courts threats etc...

Short update…….

I didn’t manage to get the little one to come with me again last weekend….i kept getting the same well rehersed “no and don’t know why I just don’t” "yes i enjoy coming and have fun"

Once again no support from her to explain this is what he and his daddy are supposed to do at weekends…..she just sat there and kept quiet most of the time apart from saying to me “you asked him that already” when I repeated myself a couple of times.

So….where I’m at now….i sent her a short and to the point email requesting she ensure our little one comes with me this weekend and every weekend as per the contact and enforcement order states….if she does not then I will apply for committal. Not had a reply and I am now hoping she does turn up with our little one this weekend cos I really can’t afford another £90 before next payday.

So come the end of the month I’ll be once again waiting on the courts sorting her out once again! Arrggghhhh!!!!! 😡 :boohoo:

Well same again this weekend......although the little one now has a reason for not coming with me......he doesn't like me! is what i got several times off him....funny that when he's away from his mother he's fine...has fun....seems happy...smiling, laughing etc... he's very affectionate to me....never asks for her, never wants to call her or go home early....and a couple fo times says he not ready to go back when i have to take him back!

I really didn't want to....but...it looks like i have no choice but to Apply for Committal Order.....lets see how she gets out of going to prison for preventing contact!!

Oh Dad-i-d I know how hard you have tried to avoid this action, but I agree she is leaving you with no choice. Its a blatant case of PA and if you dont do something about it now it will only get worse.

Of course the courts might pass the buck again! 😡 but all the best with it 🙂

if the courts do let her get away with it again then i'll have to seriously consider joining and becoming an activist for Fathers4Justice and posting on their Name and Shame Wall.

Have you seen the news today? I've just posted a newspaper article in the current affairs/topical discussion section, I think it makes for very uncomfortable reading! 😡 Can Nannies join Fathers4Justice? Things are getting worse, direct action is becoming more legitimate in my eyes!

from what i read from their campaining notes on FB they are fighting for "equal parenting" not just fathers rights.

Maybe they're making an effort to become more mainstream now so that they will not just get written off as subversive! ( I always thought they had been demonized by the media anyway!)....Good news! 🙂

Hi Dad-I-D

whilst its not right to pick up a child kicking and screaming and put him in the car, nor is it right that the child be primed by mum before contact, and it is quite obvious that she is doing that.

You have to do apply to enforce the order!

I think enforcement needs to come via a transfer of residence, rather than prison. That's just my opinion. Ask the court for this and a review in 3 months. I'm having EXACTLY the same with my ex and will be going for the same.

Good luck, bro!

Hi Lark, I like your thinking, but you also have to consider what CAFCASS have said in any report (if any) and what the Courts have said, as to whether you consider you could be successful with a transfer of residence. But good luck to you 🙂 Certainly worth a try.

Regarding what CAFCASS and Court findings reports….all are glowing for me….no welfare issues etc…

I think for that I need to apply for a Residency Order (another £200 that I can’t spare).

But its certainly something I will be mentioning in court when the committal application gets heard.

I suppose despite the hurt, pain and mental abuse I’ve suffered at the hands of my ex over the last +3yrs……. I’ve been lucky enough that the ex has always lied and deceived people and then has been found out and proved a liar by the people she’s used to try to discredit and make me the villain in all this. This is again all proven in court through the Finding of Fact hearing we had….she even (under oath) admitted that the DV she’d claimed never happened!

I seem to remember reading that the court has the power to transfer Residency, as well as the custodial option. 🙂

Heres a link to a section on The Custody Minefield website called Parental Alientation...the sub section called "Powers of the Court" talks briefly about the powers to suspend Residence, transfer it etc. Theres also a sub section with examples of case law, could that be helpful for you Dad-i-d?

www.thecustodyminefield.com/mobile/FamilyLawMenu.html#/mobile/parentalalienation.html

HI NJ - Great minds think alike.....i wish mine was a little sharper though lol

I've already been using some of those case notes and the PA info since i couldn't afford to use my solicitor, i found it via a Google search on the net a while ago. i've a file about 2" thick of printouts from that site....all very informative and have proven quite usefull.

the Transfer of residence was something mentioned at the enformcent hearing, but if i remeber right the judge said there would have to be a residency order in place or there would have to be all sorts of reports on the practicalities of me looking after him and how i can provide for my son. Family suport / back up plans etc...

i'd love for my little boy to come live with me so i could once again be the father i used to be to him.....however the reality of me working full time and having very little family support to help me i would guess make it almost impossible for me to get Transfer of residence but others have done it so i will keep looking at how i can achieve this.

that may just be the only way i can become a posative influence in his life again 🙂

There are nurseries/childminders/au pairs.....ANY working parent, mother or father, would have to get one, many women work and use these avenues, so I cant see that being an objection against you dad-I-d.

...I think the impression I get Dad-i-d is that the court would transfer Residence but then suspend it for a length of time, as they do in criminal proceedings with a suspended prison sentence. They would then monitor handovers and if she stepped out of line then the transfer of Residence would be activated. If however she behaves herself and complies over a period of months, the logic would be that with her compliance the relationship between NRP and child would become established and PA would no longer feature....Hmmmm sounds good in theory!! :unsure:

So the decision is made….there’s no turning back now…Application for committal for continual breach of Enforced Contact Order is filled in and has just been posted off this afternoon 🙁

I’ve been trying to avoid this since may but I just cannot sit by any longer and let her alienate me even more than she is doing so far.

She’s just claimed in an email last week that she’s now had to tell our little one about court proceedings and he’s now very scared.
That is apparently my fault because I told her I’d see her back in court the other week! I actually said it at her and hoped my little one wouldn’t hear….however how dare she tell him! She could’ve quite easily not done but she’s just “upping” her vengeance towards me for daring to go against her and take her to court!

I’ve just read a rather disturbing article on one of the F4J’s members who’s not seen his kids for 8yrs due to his ex and the powerless courts and cowardly cafcass officers!
I truly hope my little one doesn’t end up on the missing childrens wall of the F4J

So what happens next? Who knows!

I know that I am emotionally drained and exhausted with this last 3yrs through the courts….i don’t really know how I find the energy to fight on but I do and I know that I have to if I want my little boy to grow up knowing me and being a part of his life.

...You're doing the right thing Dad-I-d and we will be here for you whenever you need us...I hope they will suspend her Residency for a long enough period of time so that she realizes that there are consequences for what she has done and puts it right...

What a terrible thing to do, telling your son about the court proceedings and I hope you bring this to the courts attention too. If he's scared its because of what she has done to him, these women are a disgrace 😡

It's possible that she hasn't told him of the court proceedings, but if cafcass get involved, show them that message - they can explain to him there's nothing to be scared of and the message certainly doesn't help her in court,.

You are absolutely doing the right thing! 🙂 When you attend court, having a discussion with CAFCASS yes you should show them that email you have received, not only that, she is quite obviously having inappropriate conversations with your 5 year old, and that she is not promoting contact in a health manner.!! The distress it is causing him!

I really appreciate the support ladies and gents.....i know its the only thing left to do....i know its the right thing to do for my little boys future....but it still doesn't feel right.....feels like its just going to make things much worse.

I sent an email of to the CAFCASS officer who has been involved over the last couple of years, he’s basically just told me that as CAFCASS are no longer involved they cannot do or say anything. They would only get involved again should the judge order them to!

On one hand that makes me very happy as there was never any need for them to be involved and the courts and CAFCASS know that by ending their involvement.

However on the other hand it gives me no one impartial to talk to the ex and get her to understand she cannot do what she’s been doing.

So I guess I’ve just got to wait and see what happens now……..

I think for the sake of £20 I may join the F4J to access their knowledge of the legal system from this point I’m at now.
I’ll still keep my hand in here and update as and when I have anything to add or share.

The Court may very well involve CAFCASS again of their own accord, I can tell you that while you are asking for enforcement, they will be asking her why contact has not taken place, they will ask why she does not promote contact in a positive manner. You can advise the Court of the effect her actions are having on your son and in particular the conversations she is having with him.

Whether she told your son or not of the Curt proceedings, the fact that she said it , and put it in writing, is enough!!!

The Court will not imprison her straight away, that is the last thing they will do, but they will do it in the end if the need to and your ex needs to be aware of that.

Hi Dad-I-d,

...Came across this and thought it would interest you.

www.pinktape.co.uk/cases/enforcement-of-contact-orders-let-it-be-shouted-out-from-the-roof-tops/

Thanks NJ...interesting reading....

Bit of an update:

Well the judge has accepted the application but has now requested a Sworn Affidavit (sworn statement) from me….so yet another delay while I’ve had to get that typed up and set up. Also they’ve realised they sent me the wrong form for committal…so I’ve now had to redo the correct form for that too….more [censored] delays 

The only thing that worries me now is it has to go in front of a higher ranking Judge….thats the bit i’m not looking forward too as I know the previous judge had a good handle on the case and how my ex has been breaking things as she sees fit. I have to hope the higher ranked judge sees the case the same way….i’ve heard too many stories of one judge saying one thing and another over-ruling them.
So fingers crossed the written judgement I got from the enforcement hearing will help sort my ex out once and for all……….i won’t hold my breath!

I felt sick as a parrot yet again while filling it all in and then handing it to the post office to deliver to the courts.
But it has to be done if I want to have any chance of reclaiming my relationship with my little boy again. Fingers crossed she doesn’t do anything stupid hen she gets served the court papers in the next week or so.

Crosando los dados.....

I hope it goes well for you....

Regards,

Dave

So here is payday again........and so there it is done…..another £102.00 (£85+VAT) spent out in legal fees….this time on instructing Process Servers to serve the ex with the next round of battle papers.

So that’s me having another month of no going out!...another month of no chance of dating…..That’s another 3 months gone by and another month still to wait and see what the courts will do to stop my ex from keeping me out of my little boy’s life.

Is this the final battle in the war? ……..i very much doubt it says the sceptical side of me….but fingers crossed for another positive step towards a more peaceful/less stressful life with my little boy.

You've done it before and you can do it now. See the positive possibilities. Redirect the substantial energy of your frustration and turn it into positive, effective, unstoppable determination.

Good on you Dad I D, although I am sorry the Court sent you the wrong form ! Just know that the money is being spent to see your son, and hold your head high that you are pursuing every avenue...hope you asked for costs too!

I’ve asked to be reimbursed for costs in writing at every hearing since the finding of fact hearing in 2011 where my ex admitted she’d lied and deceived the police and courts about her false allegations of DV/DA and Harassment.
I’ve never had one penny back……..pitty we can’t claim like you see celebs doing against papers and other people for slander!

Now that people must self rep, i believe more people will ask for costs and I think the Courts will have to deal with it...even if it is eventually!Especially when allegations are proven to be false, malicious etc.

Argh! it will be a long time coming in my opinion....probably when we see a pig fly!

😆 Ohhhh NJ you do make me laugh. Personally I don't see how the courts can fail to ask for costs, they already know that malicious spiteful allegations are made, they have to be put a stop to ....eventually! 🙂

Ha! Maybe when [censored] freezes over!,!! Lol

Looks like my relaxing weekend is now shot to sh*t... :boohoo: ...in court early next week and just been sent a copy of the latest set of lies she’s using as her defence to try and keep her from going to prison/suspended sentence etc… of and she’s now suddenly got a solicitor/barrister acting for her all of a sudden! So if she can afford one she can afford to pay my costs too!!!

So my weekend is now gonna be digging my old files out and her emails again just in case the new judge doesn’t see the lies as the last one has for 2yrs!

Getting really fed up now…..really need her to give this up this hatred and let me and my little boy just have the life we should’ve had from day one.

this one has really got me worried....been so positive coming up to this point that the Judge will see throught the rubbish she's spouting....but now she's a legal team again i'm not so positive........having said that.....i beat her barrister once with the truth.......i just hope i can prove the truth versus her lies again.

dad-i-d,

dont let her get to you mate. She is desperate rabbit in front of some bright lights and attempting to do anything to weasle her way out.

Without knowing the facts, I suspect no judge is gonna be bold to send someone to prison. In variably there will be peaks and troughs and if you have succeeded once there is no doubt you are capable of doing it again.

Just stay firm fair and to the truth.

I would say if you get a chance (like any exam) - just practice permutations of allegations and potential responses as a bit of a warm up exercise. It should cover all eventualities and prepare you in good stead.

Best of luck,

Hi Dad I d

Boycie is right, don't let her get to you. As you said, you beat her previously with the truth, and you will again. Interesting that she has a legal team now, which is paid for privately as there is no more legal aid!!!

Hi Dad-I-d....Heres something that may interest you.

www.exinjuria.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/april-fools/