[Solved] Contact Issues

Hi,

This is a bit tricky really - I'll separate the contact from the maintenance as they are separate issues.

Contact is the right of the children, and not the parents right. Your ex is obliged by the contact order to have the children available for contact, but whether she actually has to push them out of the door to see you is a debatable point. The only way you can enforce contact is by going back to court, but in reality, the court are going to ask your children for their opinion as they are old enough to know what is going on, and to voice their opinions. The problem is that your children are now getting to the stage where they are making other arrangements with their friends and you (and your ex) may well come second to those arrangements - it's just a normal part of children growing up, so you need to find a way to work with your children, rather than fighting against your ex. Perhaps suggest sleepovers at your house (and stay out of the way) or barbeques for their friends at your house - if you try to enforce them staying at your house, then you may well drive them away. In reality, I think getting tough will not have the desired effect, I'm afraid.

With regard to the dinner money for the children, I would ask what your children did with their £10 per week - did they use this for school meals or did they just buy something on the way to school, and does your ex provide them with anything to eat when they are at school? If your ex does provide them with food (packed lunch etc) then I'd leave it at that. If however, they are going without food, then I'd apply for a variation in your child maintenance, reducing it by £10 per week during term time only (this is important) - almost certainly, the CSA will reject it, at which point you lodge an appeal - these appeals are held at a tribunal and are informal affairs (not like a court at all) - if you state that you intend either to pay the school directly for school lunches, or by setting up a bank account with cash card for your children and paying £10 per week into this (and make it clear that your ex is not providing lunch for the children), then there is the possibility that you may persuade them that what you are doing constitutes part of your maintenance payment.

Thanks for taking the time to reply as I need somebody to help to get my thoughts together. I understand what you are saying about contact but I would suggest that until they are 18 then there is (or should be) an onus on their parents to ensure that contact is maintained fairly. As a non-resident parent I feel it's always an uphill struggle and that the game isn't always fair. Children will always tend to stay in their own home where all their things are rather than stay elsewhere; this is not deliberate but just natural. Mine have been great but I do feel that I get zero help from my ex - well I guess I should have known that. What if I didn't leave them back on time and let them stay on past the agreed contact period? In my opinion that is going against the court ruling and so I also believe that an effort should be made to ensure that the kids "stick" to the guidelines. But if the kids are happy staying extra nights then what's the problem?

What I believe to be happening is a game. The CSA only count nights stayed with the non-resident parent and so it's a game to ensure that the number of nights is kept below a threshold (two nights per week). All along I have been flexible but I am not the person running to the CSA about how many nights the kids stay.

On that subject of nights. If the kids stay with me from 10am to 10pm and then go back to their mother then the CSA don't count that. If however they stay from 10pm to 10am then that counts.........however the first option incurs spend (food etc.) whereas the 2nd doesn't.

On the subject of dinner money. No their mother provides nothing if the kids are with me and so when I leave them into school they need money for dinner. I will appeal as you suggested but I don't expect to get too far.

What you're saying is right in principle, but as teenagers grow older, they have spend more time with their friends at their own convenience - any attempt to force them into a strict routine will only meet with resentment, and a court can't (and probably wouldn't even try to) force older children into contact, though they would no doubt suggest that the resident parent encourages contact and is more flexible about contact arrangements, but I suspect that that's about as far as you'd get. Perhaps try to contact them via facebook and text - don't necessarily expect instant replies, or any reply at all on some occasions - you are letting them know that you're still there.

With regards to the CSA, there's no cost to you apart from time and effort, and if you don't succeed at the tribunal, you can appeal that decision, and the again to the commissioner. If nothing else, you are getting your reason for appealing into the official system, and it's just possible that your ex will start providing your children with lunch to avoid going to a tribunal and having to admit what she is doing.

Hmmm confusing guidelines from the CSA.

They won't make deductions for paying for school dinners - which I do because their mother (RP) doesn't do it nor provide any lunches.

So "who should pay for the lunches"? Answer "the Resident parent".
So "if she doesn't pay and I do then why is it not deductible". Answer "it isn't but you could try to ask for it to be considered".

I don't have to pay for the school lunches but when their mother doesn't do it and I do then it's not deductible.

I asked them what would happen if I stopped paying and they said that the Resident Parent should pay for it.

It appears they don't have any guidelines on the subject but if the NRP pays then that's his/her problem.

Hi

If you sent the kids to school without dinner money, I am sure the school would give them dinner, and then the school would get the money from the RP?

Thanks sevenhills but I don't think that is a good option as it just drags the kids into the mess. It is the parent's responsibility to look after them and I do not want to go down that route.

I asked the RP today again to provide dinner money out of the maintenance payments but was told that it was my responsibility to pay for it when I left them to school. The CSA just sit on the fence about it. They say that it is the RP's responsibility but also say that any money that I provide cannot get claimed back off maintenance. I will put an appeal in but that could take 20 weeks or so to sort out and in the meantime I will have to provide extra for the children.

My only other option is to do what sevenhills said and that doesn't do anything for my relationship with the kids and my principles would prevent me from putting the kids in the position that they have to tell the school that they have no money.........the fear would be that they could decide to do without.

Another option is to simply reduce the amount you pay the CSA by the amount you pay for school lunches (see if you can pay the school direct) and let the CSA chase you for the money - when it gets to court, you can prove that you are paying the maintenance in full, part to your ex, part to the school and then it's up to the court to decide if your are really in arrears - if the court acts sensibly, then they would determine that you are paying maintenance in full and you'd be clear to continue - worst that would happen is that they'd decide you were in arrears and make you pay, but if you are currently paying for school lunches anyway, you are no worse off.
If you do this, make sure it's fully documented, receipts from school (or statement at end of each term), correspondence (or diary of conversations) with your ex, etc.

You could always ring the CSA and have a discussion with them about what they'd actually do if you did withhold some of the money, but could prove that you were paying it directly to the school for school lunches - and if they say they'd take you to court, ask them what they think their chances of success are since you can prove you are paying maintenance in full.

So now I will have to refuse to give the kids any money and I feel that that is dragging them into the legal system.

I think that kids do ned to know what is happening. I paid over £100 for recent school trips, I paid because otherwise she may not have gone.
Talking about how things are, in the real world, in a frank and honest way is good.

It's a tricky one, but I agree - if you don't tell them, then the children would be under the impression that your ex is paying, I don't see that you should be covering for her. If she wants the children to believe that she is a good mother who is providing for them, then she should be doing just that. However, I would be careful how you tell them - talk about the positives of what you are doing, rather than the negatives of what she isn't doing.