[Solved] Directions Hearing

Hi gooneraj,

Can i just ask what the PSO hearing is for please? What does the PSO relate to?

If its a Directions hearing per se, a Legal Adviser will most likely set a number of directions i.e. 1. Person 1 is to do XYZ ... 2. Person 2 is to do ABC .... 10. Final Hearing related to [X] to be listed for hearing on [DATE].

If you have a PSO hearing by default it will centre around this, your Contact Application may be noted or discussed as well, its all dependant on what the PSO is and other factors such as evidence produced at the directions hearing iteself.

Hi Yoji

Wow!! My mind is blown and I'm slightly more terrified now! 😮

Thanks for your reply.

The PSO is set around my ex wanting to move to [hide][/hide] Northern Ireland[hide][/hide] with my son. She was planning on doing this without my knowledge but thanks to [hide][/hide] facebook[hide][/hide] I managed to find out.

My ex also changed my son's [hide][/hide]school[hide][/hide] without my knowing and when I tried to get details of the school from the [hide][/hide]local LEA they wrote her a letter [hide][/hide] asking if there was any reason I shouldn't know...this resulted in an unexpected email from her informing me of her intentions and also making accusations trying to mask her actions.

Can you give me an indication as to what kind of evidence I will need to produce at this stage? I have no clue and am starting to feel worried. :unsure:

Hi goonergaj,

No no don't feel more terrified, you will be supported throughout the process. The Legal Advisers will tell you what they are expecting from you.

The good news is that you have evidence that your ex was not going to inform you of her intended move to NI. This can only be a plus for you.

In the Court room, the Legal Adviser will speak to you and ask what you want the Court to consider. From this, you could produce a statement to the effect of:

• I found that [EX's NAME] was intending to move without my knowledge or permission... kidnap.

• You have evidence from Facebook, the school etc etc. You would expect the Court given the circumstances around this, to disallow the move based on the fact that there has been an attempt to willfully and conclusively stop or severely affect your children's lives and relationships

• The motives for Mum doing this are not clear, nor are her reasons for her attempts at hiding the move

• Given the current circumstance and the evidence of this move and your being kept unaware that there must be a spiteful reason behind this

• You would need to argue that this has only come about since you have raised an application for contact/pushed for more contact with the children.

• It is sensible and logical to assume that Mum is seeking to prevent this Contact using a geographical distance in order to do so

In effect you need to argue that because of the circumstances surrounding the move, the Court would not be acting in the best interests of the Children in the case because of Mum hiding the move. The intentions while unclear are most likely driven out of spite of your raising a contact application.

You will need to keep with you and take copies of the Facebook page (several) to hand over to Legal Adviser as well as her Solicitor (note: he may refuse to accept these), as well as letters from the school. If you have any texts, you could write a transcript of this.

In terms of the practical support i can give you. You will need to get a folder or binder to keep copies of all the information you acquire/have acquired. You can then call on these for reference.

Hope this has helped somewhat. Don't worry, honestly the worst part is waiting outside, but when you are in there, the LA will explain everything to you 🙂

If you need any particulars, feel free to reply and ask away 🙂

Thank you Yoji

I feel slightly appeased but obviously still very apprehensive regarding what is to come.

I should probably make you aware of a complication. Although everything you say with regard to her move being motivated by spite etc., and it coming from my insistence for contact (which has been since November 2010 when contact was made more and more difficult) is true, she got into a relationship with someone from the army last year sometime and is now married to him. I believe that they (he under her instruction) asked for a transfer to NI. My son was encouraged to call this man daddy quite soon (well obviously - I don't think they've been together longer than 18 months) and told that I'm not his daddy. My ex changed her number last end of November/beginning of December and I've had no contact with my son since then.

I'm petrified that if this move goes ahead I will have little to no chance of seeing my son again because of work and the complications of getting to and from NI...there's only one flight a day from my nearest airport which is 2 and a half hrs away and I live around at least 7hrs away from my nearest ferry port. I am also petrified that because she's remarried they may think it's in my son's best interests to grant the move :boohoo:

Are people of similar thinking that I may get an order against contact rather than for??

It's just that anytime I post on this subject I rarely get replies once people find out my circumstances.

The silence doesn't inspire me with great confidence. 🙁

Hi goonergaj,

Don't worry 🙂

Its definitely wrong what she is doing. No question. Don't worry about replies, to be honest here its quite a small community. So often replies come as and when, i try and get on at least every other day. Actd is here usually every day.

Do you have any proof of the instances of your Son being forced to call this other man "daddy"?

This will be why the PSO is going ahead first, to establish whether or not there needs to be a continuation in looking at the Contact Application you have made... hmmm... I think, that you should perhaps have another statement to say you know that there has been an attempt by your ex to erase you completely from the scene i.e. calling her new husband "daddy" and also changing numbers and refusing you contact. You have reason to believe that your ex's new husband put in for a transfer at her request to NI. All of it links back to the fact that you are requesting more contact, and she isn't willing to allow it come [censored] or high water.

Its worth remembering that what you are doing is the right thing for your Son and i think you've got a very good chance to stop or at least stall this move. Also you are part of your Sons best interests as well. Walk into Court knowing that

Hi Yoji

Thanks.

Sorry I just feel so alone right now and like nobody can help me.

I have screenshots of instances of both her and her mother referring to this man as "daddy" which I intend taking with me. I fully intend to use examples of her refusing me contact and the fact that she changed her number. Where problems may arise is, she has said in email that she changed her number due to me being verbally abusive to her over Christmas which is a lie because a) I wouldn't give her the satisfaction and b) She had already changed her number long before then! I have an email dated 13 dec that I wrote after not being able to contact my son on the phone...will this be of any use??? She didn't reply. I sent her a letter in November 2010 asking to set up a proper contact arrangement. The next thing I got was a solicitor's letter from her making unreasonable suggestions. That continued for a while then I was "allowed" telephone contact with my son, which was a temporary measure building up to me seeing him again as far as I was concerned, and it was always messed around with.

Will the Court be interested in any of these letters?? They show my proposal of contact and what she deemed "necessary" for contact to take place.

I'm also worried that if I bring all the facebook stuff into play straight away they could lock it down. That is the only way I can find out what is happening with my son and was the only way I knew he was moving in the first place. I just have a feeling - I know she's not allowed if the court says no - that she will go to NI regardless and facebook would probably be the only way I could find this out in order to call the Police to stop him going. :unsure:

Hi Goonergaj,

As Yoji has pointed out, what your ex is doing is wrong. She is technically able to take your child abroad for up to a month without your consent, but if she wanted to go away for longer than one month, or move permanately, then she would require your written consent or a court order.

She hasn't sought either as far as I can see and has, thus far, excluded you from her plans. You are well within your rights, given the situation, to apply for a PSO.

You have been consistantly reasonable towards your ex and I would imagine that there's a strong possibility that the court will recognise this. Consistency is often a key marker when courts look at evidence. I would use the Facebook screenshots to support your argument.

I have a question, and perhaps it's something you can include in your argument, how long is her new husband going to be posted to NI? My understanding is that these things are rarely permanent, so in the event that he was reposted somewhere else would she be looking to relocate with your child yet again? Your child needs a level of stability that a miltary lifestyle doesn't, to my mind, provide.

I think you have a stronger case than you think. And you're not alone. I think every dad that uses the site has been where you are now and has suffered with the same anxiety.

Good luck,

FM '70

Hi FM '70

Thank you for the support.

I'm starting to feel a bit more positive and even more confident again. 🙂

Kudos for the suggestion about possible future relocation, it was something I had overlooked.

Thanks again.

goonergaj

p.s. I have sent you a PM for further advice.

No worries. Happy to help.

I've sent you a PM with my email address, but would also recommend running it past ACTD or Yoji as they have much more experience than I do and I value their opinions.

Cheers,

FM '70

Hi Goonergaj,

I've had a look at your statement and I don't think it's overly long. I think you've done an excellent job in highlighting a sustained attempt by your ex to obstruct contact with your child. However I would ask Yoji or ACTD to take a look at it, as they have written statements and advised on many others. I haven't, so they may see something that I have missed or have some additional advice for you.

Cheers,

FM '70

HI

Sorry for the delay - the time yoji says I'm on here most days is the time I'm away for a couple of days 😮

We can have a look for you, and also ask the CCLC for advice (I am correct in thinking you don't have a solicitor?)

Hi guys

Thank you so much. Your input so far has been invaluable 🙂

Actd - I don't have a solicitor (I'm part of the self rep team 🙂 ) and I have had some satisfactory advice from CCLC. Please could you PM me an email address so I can send you a copy of my statement? FM'70 and Yoji have already taken a look but I feel it can't hurt any to get a few eyes on it.

Cheers guys

It's not a problem. Good luck with everything 🙂

HAHAHA!! That woman's actions are so laughable I struggle to keep control of my bladder :silly:
I know she's received the C100 summons....because I got a call from the CSA. How petty!! Oh well, nothing's changed so she won't be getting anymore money...but I'm obviously getting to her and spoiling her plan to eradicate me from my little boy's life :woohoo:

FM'70 thank you. I think I'll need luck and prayers 🙂

I won't be on now until after the hearing, I've got the Olympic flame in my area tomorrow and then I travelling down to Court. I'll be sure to come back and let everyone know how it goes 🙂

Well, I said I'd be back with an update....so here I am 🙁

Whilst it must be said I achieved a tiny victory today one visit with my son in the interim until my next hearing, like I said it's a very tiny victory.

It turns out that my PSO application will basically be ignored! Because she so carefully planned (and I can't believe she didn't because it couldn't have turned out better for her) getting involved with a soldier, getting pregnant, getting married and she did do it in that exact order. Let me just share something with you...Her wedding looked like it cost a fair few grand, fancy frock, cake and stuff...who plans a wedding like that and wants to have a bump on the day. I CANNOT an WILL NOT accept that she hasn't done this so I lose my little boy.

The joke they call court don't/won't take into consideration what she's been doing to stop contact, that she was going to take him to NI without me knowing and that even if they grant a contact order, it's highly unlikely that realistically I'll ever get to see my son again :boohoo:

Seriously this country and it's laws are a joke. How did it go so wrong?? :boohoo:

She has cross-applied for a Specific Issue Order (permanent relocation) and a Residence Order....is she piggy-backing off me and not having to pay for her application? And she told so many lies even the devil would have a job competing with her. Plus she only had a top barrister from King's Bench Walk in court for her!!!

When I see my little boy next weekend it will probably be a farewell visit because it's likely she'll be allowed to go :boohoo: May as well stick a dagger in my heart......

I've just had enough now :boohoo:

Hi,

I've PM'd you... if you need a talk about anything. I've sent my number.

Chin Up.

I'm sorry that this has happened, it sounds incredibly harsh given your outline of the situation. How long has she been pregnant? It wasn't something that you've previously mentioned in this thread, so I'm asuming you didn't know?

I don't know what to suggest, as I'm shocked by today's turn of events. It's a horrible situation. Has she outlined a proposal of contact?

Let us know if there's anything we can do.

FM '70

That's appalling news

Unfortunately, I have to agree with your assessment of the likely outcome - in which case, I would say that you should try to plan around it - skype is an obvious one, plus a video diary to show him when he's older, and contact duiring holidays etc. It may be hard to enforce, but you need to keep fighting as much for your sake as for your son's.

Hi guys,

Thanks for the support.

FM '70 I mentioned everything in my 'Is this the beginning of the end' thread a few weeks back.

She hasn't outlined a proposal for contact, we're set to go back for trial near the end of this month or the beginning of next. As I've said she was planning on going without me knowing and I have no way of contacting her, no number, address, nothing! She'll probably even change her email address once she's gone she's already shut down an account I had for her before. There is no way, even with a court order, I'm getting any contact, despite what she 'agrees' to. As far as she's concerned he's her property and I'm not entitled to any part of him......

Just a thought - and I have no idea what action could be taken, but if you were to get a PSO and she ignored it, I would have thought that her new husband would be aiding and abetting. Normally that wouldn't be something a father might worry about, but the army might take a dim view of one of their men from being involved in something illegal.

I'm having a good think about this one too...

I don't think she'd ignore a PSO, but if she did the Police here in the UK would be able to liaise with the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Royal Military Police. I think they would make life a little uncomfotable for her and her husband in that eventuality...

If her husband is being stationed in Northern Ireland, I assume - for security purposes - that they'll be living in family accomodation somewhere on a military base? Now you need to look into this further, but I think british military bases are subject to UK law wherever they are.

If this is the case I suspect that you'll be able to enforce a court order more easily than she expects. I would also go and see your local MP and see whether they can assist. I doubt an MP could ultimately stop her from moving to NI, but what they may be able to do is put pressure on various agencies to ensure that you get a genrous level of contact. MP's use various levels of diplomacy to get things done, which can include liaising with the foreign office or having an informal conversation with a high ranking military officer...

... if she thinks that she's getting rid of you by moving to NI, you need to show her otherwise.

Take care,

FM '70

Thank you again all of you, really.

I may not have explained properly, but the judge said to me that he doubts any judge would grant me a PSO and stop her from moving her family to NI, and remember she has also cross-applied for a SIO (permanent relocation) (mentioned in my post after court). I think her [censored] of a barrister snuck a bit of paper to the judge that had an outline of 'stuff' which basically means lies, there really wasn't much that was true other than our names on the document, but it enabled her to get across the fact that ex is pregnant, married and her husband's job is based in NI and she wants her family altogether by the time her baby is born. They have well and truly stitched me up good and proper! I know this woman and what she is capable of......

I don't believe that they will be living on the base as there only seems to be single or married quarters there (not family).
I wrote to my local MP previously when I realised I couldn't afford a solicitor and didn't know about representing myself, the reply came back that he was sorry but he couldn't get involved in anything legal or give legal advice and I was given some leaflets for the CAB.

Believe me I have looked into this from a lot of angles and I can't see where I can get a break here. 🙁

I think this is a horrible situation engineered by a horrible person. I've spent much of the morning looking through your previous posts and your ex really does appear to have put you through the emotional ringer in recent years.

I've seen this type of situation before and whilst it appears hopeless now, I think you have to prepare for both the immediate and long term future. The immediate future is about agreeing a contact schedule. The long term future is about planning for when your ex returns with two children.

I split from my ex because she wanted to get married and have another child. I wanted to ride out the recession before we did either. In truth she had become pregnant very early in our relationship and I was with her out of a sense of duty. I wanted to provide the best environment I could for my son and I didn't think she could do it by herself. When she realised that I was serious about waiting until after the economy got better to discuss marriage and more kids, she took my son and left. She became pregnant to some random bloke within a matter of weeks. Things deteriorated further when I realised this man was spending time with my son, so I understand how you feel. She stopped me from seeing my son and I had no option other than to seek legal advice. The situation looked bleak. My ex tried to suggest that I was harrassing her and implied that I had been abusive to her, which meant that mediation wouldn't really be an option. I was then told that, as she was pregnant, the courts wouldn't want to move forward with the case until after she'd given birth. I was told that it may be a year before I saw my son again. I was devastated.

After a few weeks I began to pull myself together and started to think about how things would pan out. I knew my ex well enough to recognise that once this new bloke realised how neurotic she was he'd be off like a shot. I didn't have to wait long. I managed to regain contact with my son almost immediately, although it wasn't anywhere near the level I had enjoyed previously. I then realised that she would soon have two kids to deal with and, on this occasion, wouldn't have someone like me supporting her through it. By the time her child was born I was back to having full contact with my son. I also know that should she ever try that [censored] with me again, a court will see straight through her. They don't like being duped. Don't like it at all.

So I guess my point is that your ex appears to be genetically disposed to duplicity. I think you're probably right and that everything has been premeditated in as far as limiting contact between you and your son. However in her desire to screw you over, I doubt she's really given too much thought to the future. The life of a soldier's wife is not an easy one. He's not going to be there day in, day out. She's going to have to look after two children by herself for much of the time. She's in a new environment; an environment that's still not particularly welcoming to the British military and most of her family (if not all) is back in the UK.

If she is unhappy in that situation, what do you think she'll do? Do you think she'll stay there in an environment that she has very little control over? Or is she more likely to come back to the UK and be near her Mother?

I think there's a very high chance that she'll be back in the UK within a couple of years. If not sooner.

In the interim you need to plan around the move to NI. Contact will be difficult, but not impossible. Skype is a good way of having visual contact with your little boy between holiday contact. I think ACTD mentioned keeping a video diary to show him when he's older, so that he can see that you love him and were always thinking about him.

I know it's hard, but try and focus on your long term goal. People like your ex are very good at thinking short term, but rarely consider the long term consequences of their actions. She may very well win this particular battle, but there will be others and by that time she'll have developed a pattern of behaviour that no court will be able to ignore.

FM '70

Hi guys,

I have an update for you as you were so supportive to me during my time of need. It's also a sign of hope for other dads about to embark on this kind of journey - don't give up.

Well from the first hearing to the last, it took six weeks. From application to final hearing it took eleven weeks. I think this is because of the whole background of my situation though.

My son was allowed to go to NI, the main reasons behind that were 1) ex is married to someone who serves in the armed forces and that is where he is now based. 2) she's pregnant.

As far as I can tell they were the main reasons but also that NI is part of the UK. I actually think that if she had tried to move 'abroad' (which she may as well have done because it's around the same travelling time for me regards flights, expense, etc) I may have been in with a shout of being granted the PSO.

Anyway, between 5th July and 14th August I got to see my son twice! 🙂 That was the interim period.

At my final hearing in August I must admit that I probably couldn't have had a better judge. I was granted a contact order which states that my ex has to bring my son back at least 3 times a year to have overnight contact. Ex tried to argue that I must see him for a day visit only for those 3 times a year to build up the relationship before any overnight contact be allowed - so what she was trying to say basically was that he'd never get to stay with me because he'd never know me well enough, because in all seriousness when I'm not there it all goes back to square one! I'm to go there at least 3 times a year to have overnight contact. I have him for 1 week in the summer holidays. I'm allowed skype contact once a week and various other bits and bobs.

The most exciting thing that I have won from this is I get to have my little boy spend Christmas with me this year 🙂 🙂 🙂 . I have not seen him on Christmas day since 2008 (he was born 2006) and even then, it was with the ex and her family as I wasn't allowed to take him to my house. Ex kicked up a massive fuss about Christmas in court but it didn't get her anywhere. So from this year on it will alternate between Christmas and New Year. Unfortunately I missed out on getting his birthday written into the order as it slipped my mind the time with all the toing and froing. Hopefully we'll reach a stage at some point where she'll agree for me to have him on his birthday.

I'm happy that, with exception of the birthday, I got the next best scenario I could probably have hoped for. The best obviously being that my boy stayed on mainland UK.

Before all this I hadn't seen my boy in 18 months, I'm not sure that ex will remain as civil as she's been since 14th August, but I'm using it to my best advantage for now. In the event that she does switch again the judge had it written into the order that the case be referred back to her to be heard - that is a real positive to take from this as she will know the history of it all. One thing the judge did say to me is that I should've gone to court a lot sooner.....perhaps if I had, he would never have been allowed to go! I'll never know now.

Thank you again for the support.

To any dads that are battling to see your kids....DON'T GIVE UP 🙂

Fantastic news! 🙂 I'm absolutely made up for you! 🙂 How was your son? Was he happy to see you?

FANTASTIC 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Thanks FM '70 and actd.

There were no problems when I first saw him, which was great. But from what I got from some of the things he was saying to me on the first visit, it was obvious that ex had been getting him up to speed on things in the week between the order and the visit and back tracking on what she'd been telling him (that I wasn't his daddy and he had a new daddy, etc.) for those past 18 months. Sad really because he's now probably even more confused than he was when I wasn't around which isn't ever what I wanted for him - it's a catch 22 situation.

On my second visit with him we were having a conversation where he suddenly began talking about names...he said my name and asked if that was correct, I said yes and asked him what his name was. He told me his full name but said that mummy would be changing it to her new surname, but he was still to be known by the surname we share (his real surname) when he's around me :huh: . I knew that would be on ex's cards at some point! Luckily that was before the final hearing and I mentioned it in my statement. The judge ordered that a name change should not take place 🙂 .

It hurts when I hear him call his stepfather 'daddy' and because they live together when he's not away and he's always being promoted and talked about, my son will always have that close bond with him. He's very torn. From some things he's said to me I get that he sees me because he has to rather than he wants to...in time that will change...I hope - it has to! We've skyped a few times now and I fly over to see him in couple of weeks to spend a day with him, then a few weeks after that to have overnight contact with him and then there's Christmas 🙂 🙂 . So I'm making sure that, as much as I can, I remain a big presence in his life.

Here's hoping for the best!