[Solved] Ex Parte non molestation order

Hi david,

Sorry to hear of your situation. This is not an uncommon story believe it or not.

Your Solicitor is right to say challenge the nmo. This may provide a footing for an argument that you are violent etc.

I would seriously advise keeping a diary, where possible, take a witness to any pickups/drop offs. In this situation, i often think back... try not to enter her new property or put yourself in a position out of sight of your witness.

Any other evidence such as texts, emails or voice mails, make sure that they are saved and backed up somewhere.

In the meantime, your Solicitor should provide the appropriate advice 🙂

Also I have googled this and I read the horror stories of judges always siding with the women.
Please help me

I've said this before, but take these stories and read them, however don't worry too much about them either, for every bad story you read on line there are probably 5-10 good stories where all has proved to be lies, these stories never find it on to the internet as they don't become as much of an issue to the people involved so they don't feel the need to write about ot.

This doesn't mean the stories you have read areen't true or awful as I'm sure they are, but I don't think they are as common as it is made to seem when you read forums online the ones that go smoothly just never get written about.

Kepp us posted as to how things are going, and as yoji has said keep a full diary of everything that happens.

Darren

Thank you for your advice.

Unfortunately I have been told I cannot see my son also as my ex states I would abduct him as I have tried it before. I don't know where she is getting this from. But I have just been told that she has a flight booked to spain to see her mother and it is booked for a 4 week period from the 15 july. In her sick mind i bet she has made all these allegations up so that she can go away for 4 weeks with my son without telling me as she knows i would not agree.
Can i bring this up in court that i think she has a flight abroad planned and would they question her over it, also would the courts look dimly on her doing this or would i been seen to be stirring in court? Surely she is the one potentially abducting my son?

David,

Based entirely on what you've said being true, I would advise you to act quickly here.

Are you named on your son's birth certificate? If so you have certain rights. One of these is that your ex cannot take your child out of the country for more than 4 weeks without your consent.

I have a couple of concerns based on the experiences of a few other dads in recent months.

Firstly your ex has effectively stopped you from seeing your son and you are now in the 'system'. Your ex is taking your son out of the country to Spain where she has family. She has stated that she is going for 4 weeks. This is clearly within the law.

However the law is open to abuse.

Your ex has made a number of allegations, but you can't refute them until you have a court date and by this point your ex will be in Spain. Her allegations could be designed to wrong foot you. My ex made up a number of similar allegations.

I would strongly recommend that you ask your solicitor about a Prohibitive Steps Order, because I think there is a potential risk that your ex could stay in Spain as she has family there who can accomodate her. This doesn't mean that she's planning to do this, but I think the risk is significant enough to warrant a proactive course of action on your part.

Sorry to sound alarmist, but you need to protect yourself.

FM '70

Thanks for your advice FM70

My non mol is going to court at the latest of the 15 June and i have seen her flight ticket and its booked for the 15 July. This is why I would like to bring it up in my non mol case because she is citing me as abducting my son, which couldn't be further from the truth!
Having checked the flight booking it is from the 15th to the 15th so this is 32 days so over a month. I will get my solicitor on the case but I had been told if she leaves the country without my consent it is classed as abduction is this not the case then? Are you saying she can go for a month without my consent?
The law sucks when it comes to fathers as we all know but how can she leave the country without my consent but I can get a judge order a non mol on me without even talking to me and believes a pack of lies!! Crazy!!

As the resident parent she can legally take your child out of the country for up to a month. She would need your permission, or a court order, for anything longer than that. If she doesn't come back within that time frame she will have broken the law.

The trip is probably just a holiday and a chance to put some distance between the both of you. However the issue that concerns me is that your ex has family in Spain who can accomodate her. Is your ex Spanish? Or are her family ex pats?

You want to be seen as reasonable. You have no real wish to deny your child an opportunity to visit his family in Spain, but given the situation you have genuine concerns that your ex will not come back. Your ex has made a number of very serious allegations, which you utterly refute and obviously feel that they have been designed to justify a possible decision on her part to not return to the UK with your child.

I would contest the Non Molestation Order on the basis that it's unfounded, is probably a means by your ex to restrict/stop contact and that the order might make contact difficult or impossible. It may well be an idea to offer to sign an undertaking. This is a signed oath to the court that you haven't done what you have been accused of and you have no intention of doing such a thing in the future either. An undertaking is not an admission of guilt, but it is a promise to the court and breaking that promise is then contempt of court - for which there can be severe penalties! The courts take the giving of an undertaking quite seriously - offering to give one can only show you have good intentions, and I'd offer before it's suggested by the court, if possible.

Hi,

Does your ex have a Residence Order? If not then you effectively have shared residence using the no order principle.

Are you on the birth certificate? If you are then you have equal Parental Responsibility.

If there is no Residence Order then the only thing that defines your relationship as parents is equal PR and your ex requires your consent to take your child out of the UK for ANY length of time.

If your ex has a Residence Order then she would be able to take children our of UK for up to 28 days without your consent.

The 'get out' is that your ex could say she believed that you would not withhold consent, also, you would not deny your child a family holiday BUT with her recent actions I don't think that would hold any weight and if she does take your child out of the UK then it won't make her look too good at all.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I think some of the advice you are receiving about the above is incorrect.

I would certainly consult with your solicitor about this asap, but my understanding is that even if a parent shares parental responsibility, they are not allowed to take the child abroad for more than a month except for two situations: firstly, if the non resident parent consents or secondly if they have sought and obtained permission from the court.

It could well be that without a residence order, she will need your permission to take your child out of the country for any length of time. Your solicitor can advise you much better than I on this point. However if this is the case, I assume she'll be looking to get the court's permission to do this.

I would also speak to your solicitor about the value of signing an undertaking. I think it's an option worth exploring and a proactive move on your part.

The courts are often more astute than we give them credit for. Stick to the truth, be reasonable and remain open to the courts suggestions. A court is not necessarily concerned about what has happened in the past, they are actually focussed on what is going to happen in the future. However I would obviously show the court any mediation agreement that you have to prove that you have tried this route, even though your ex now denies participating. Speak to the mediation centre and see whether they can supply any additional notes.

If you have any texts or emails that back up your version of events make a record of them and submit them to the court.

Thanks for all your advice.

I have written a very long and detailed statement of truths and this includes emails and mediation letters and this has been sent to the courts.I will have a barrister to represent me, could we ask for an undertaking before we even go to court?
My ex is applying for a residence order but the court case for this is smack bang in the middle of when she would be in Spain so that might stop her going any way. I would not stop her taking my son on holiday and before all this kicked off I would have no worries that she would return to the UK, but how she is reacting now I have no idea, when I have raised this with my solicitor she did not really say a lot apart from we need to get the molestation case out of the way then we will concentrate on the residence case.

Hi David,

How does your ex propose to prove her allegations against you are true? Have the police been involved? Is it literally a case of her word against yours? If so, I think an undertaking merits further discussion with your solicitor. I believe it's a suitably proactive response to her allegations.

On what grounds does your ex believe you would be able to abduct your son? Is she suggesting that you'll flee the country with him? Do you have family that lives abroad?

When someone makes unfounded allegations about you, right out of the blue, it's a shock to the system. I was incredibly confused when it happened to me and obviously very angry. I couldn't work out why my ex had done it, but it soon emerged that she'd become pregnant by another man very soon after our split and she had wanted to put 'distance' between us. My point is that when this happens, it's usually subterfuge; a smokescreen to distract attention from something else. It's hard to know what to do for the best, but I share your concerns about the impending holiday. Were you regular visitors over there?

I'm currently communicating with another Dad who had fought to resume contact with his daughter for nearly two years. He managed to get a contact order, which his ex refused to honour and used every trick in the book to repeatedly cancel agreed contact at the last minute. He started proceedings to have the order enforced only for his ex to then flee the country and settle at her parents in the Seychelles. He's now in the process of having to go through the foreign office just to help track them down. He's also had to declare himself bankrupt, because she left him with her debts...

My own personal view is that when one, or both parents, involved in an acrimonious court battle are foreign nationals,or have strong family links in another country, then the court should do more to reduce the risk of abduction.

Thanks FM70

She did call the police on 2 occasions after we had arguments but i was unaware she had called the police, when I found out I went to the police and asked why I had never been questioned about the events and they told me they were recorded as non crime domestics.
To give you some background our relationship as never been very steady and I would only ever go back for my son and because my ex would spend at times days or weeks badgering me via phone and email to come back even though I knew it was never going to work. In 2009 she stalked me for a week and also tried to run me over when i left her, she also sprayed my car with paint and ripped up my passport. All of this she has admitted to my father and the mediator. I know this sounds dramatic but its as if she is obsessed with me and now she knows I have left for good she will now make up lies to destroy me. This she has admitted on tape that she will destroy me. Can I se tape recordings in court?
I really don't think she would go back to Spain for good (or am I being naive?) She is english but her sister and mum live in spain. She did talk about going to spain for a month in mediation before all this court aggro occurred.
I have never given my ex any reason to think i would abduct my son. I have collected him every saturday for the last 3 months and always been back at 6pm on the dot apart from the evening when she asked me to keep him for a bit longer as she was shopping.
I just cannot see how a judge can give me a non molestation order when I have not been at my own house for the last 3 months. I have abided by all the mediation and my ex has been asking for money before she will leave the house, which i had agreed to but she has never taken it, but i have all the solicitors letters to prove it.
She then states she had to flee for her safety and go to a womens refuge as I would hunt her down and take her back to my house. This couldn't be further from the truth as I cheered when I realised she had finally left my house albeit sadness as my son had left. I think this is a big game for her that I am hoping the judge will see through. I just worry for her mental state and what other lies she could come up with in court.

I'm not sure whether you can use a tape in court - I'd transcribe it into a statement and say that you have the tape as proof. That way it's up to the court to listen to the tape if they want verification of the transcript.

Hi David,

I think what's obvious is that you're now out of what was clearly an unhealthy relationship. As I've said before the courts tend to focus on a way forward, rather than dwell on the past.

I think you need to be clear that a) yes there were arguments and b) they were never violent, nor was the threat of violence raised. You weren't aware that she had called the police. You were never questioned, let alone arrested. It came as a shock, as did her threats to destroy you.

I would ask the mediation service you used to confirm the admissions that your ex made during the sessions. Explain to them that she has raised allegations and denied attending mediation. As ACTD has said, if you can transcribe any tape recordings, you may be able to submit those to the court and confirm that you have the original tape as proof of authenticity.

What you don't want to do is get into a slagging match. You want to refute her claims and explain that you know she's angry with you, but you're not going let her actions interfere with the relationship you have with your son. You've tried mediation, but it hasn't worked. That's why you're here. If your solicitor thinks signing an undertaking is a good idea, then this would be the stage to introduce the idea to the court.

The holiday will probably prove to be exactly that; just a holiday. However I think you should flag up the fact that your ex has family over there and that her recent actions, specifically all the talk of abduction, have left you feeling very anxious about her leaving with your son. You want some guarantees that she'll return to the UK on time.

The point that needs to be reinforced is that you just want to work out a way to have quality time with your son and reduce the opportunities for any further confrontation with your ex (which is especially important if you sign an undertaking).

FM '70

If a resident parent has a residence order then they are able to take the child abroad for up to a month without the consent of the other parent. If the resident parent wanted to go away for longer than one month they would require written consent of all people with parental responsibility.
If the resident parent does not have a residence order then they do not require positive agreement but should inform the non-resident parent of the intentions and consider any reasonable objections. If a non-resident parent wishes to prevent a resident parent taking a child on holiday then he or she will need to make an application for a Prohibited Steps Order under S8 Children Act 1989.
Alternatively if a resident parent is refusing to allow a non-resident parent to take a child on holiday then the non-resident parent can seek a Specific Issue Order from the court under S8 Children Act 1989.
I hope this clarifies the law relating to taking a child abroad.
Coram Children's Legal Centre

Thanks. That was my understanding.

I just wanted to update everyone on my case that has helped me and to give some hope to others who are going through the same.

I had my first 30 minute hearing today for the non mol and to cut a very long story short the judge has seen through my ex's lies and discrepancies in her statement and discharged all of the non mol orders against my child and me and discharged 6 out of 8 points. The judge was going to totally discharge all of it but the other sides barrister said that my ex would feel safer if 2of the points were still in place. The judge said he would but only until the case goes to court and only because he is not saying my ex's is untrue until proven otherwise.
We have a further hearing on the 1 August for a contact order on our child. My ex's barrister asked for the hearing to be adjourned because my ex wanted to visit her mother. the judge asked where her mother lived and when the barrister stated she lived abroad the judge stated no way and has now put an order in writing that my child is not to be removed from the country without my consent.

the judge has reinstated contact but only through a supervised contact centre which was my ex wishes, this is not great but its a start and much more than i had hoped for today out a 30 minutes hearing where I am not allowed to say anything.

I am a long way from the finishing line yet but to all who are worried about judges being prejudiced against the man it's not always the case just tell the truth and stand proud.

That's a good result mate! Well done!

The judge clearly shared your concerns and saw through the BS. Like you say, it's a long haul, but at least you're on the right path.

FM '70

An excellent result - I agree that there are a lot of good judges out there, as I have said before, they have very sharp minds.