[Solved] Failed Agreements / Court orders.

Yep, Children's Legal centre have posted many replies on the forum about doing it yourself.

You should be able to deduct your travelling costs from your takehome pay (after the first £15 per week I think) before the CSA's calculation for maintenance. If you aren't, then speak to the CSA to sort out a variation.

I would like to do it myself, but she still refuses to give me her address, I know i need this information but she knows that too so plain refuses which is extremely horrible of her. I will try sort out a variation, but if there's a way to get a court order in motion with limited information then that would also help. I can't possibly find the 2.5k-7k a solicitor would cost, She'll get legal aid though coz she's not worked since she found out she was pregnant with my daughter.

To do this myself would the forms be freely available on the internet or at my local CAB? Searching the forum i have not been able to extract all this information from previous posts. sorry to be the millionth person to ask.

Y'see, here's where i think i went wrong. I should have put an order in place straight away and also a prohibited steps order instead of taking her word for it but i did NOT want to drag my daughter through unneccesary proceedings. Turns out that the process isn't invasive to children and it actually not so bad, Anyaway, one piece of advice i'd give anyone else is no matter how much you think you can trust your Ex get an order before you end up being taken for a massive ride.

The following is copied from one of Childrens Legal Centre replies, and contains some of the information you need:

If you are going to act for yourself because you do not qualify for legal aid then an application to the court can be made by filling out a C100 form and sending it to the court. You can obtain the C100 form by visiting the Her Majesty’s Court Service website ( http://www.hmcs.gov.uk ) or alternatively you can visit your local county court to collect the form.

Guidance on how the children and family courts operate can be found by following this link: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cour ... 1_0806.pdf . There is an application fee of £175. Once the form has been completed you should return it to the court with the fee. The parties involved will receive a date on which to attend court.

You need to contact the Children's Legal Centre (or hopefully, they'll reply on here) regarding getting post (ie notification of court dates etc) to your ex - I'm not sure how you go about doing this.

Rik,

First I have asked the Childrens Legal Centre to reply to your post. Thanks Actd for cutting and pasting some previous advice in the meantime.

Sounds tough time mate. All I can add is stick in there for the kids sake. Keep us in touch and keep ur chin up.

Buzz

I will honestly never give up on this. I need to get her address first.

Progress: she did let me talk to my daughter today!

but then after i finished work i got a message telling me that my daughter was extremely rude, ignorant, not well behaved etc. Apparently her talking to me turns her this way. It's nothing to do with what i think is happening at all...

I think that my daughter is extremely upset still by moving away. We used to hang out every weekend, Obviously between work and Mollie i'd need down time so i dropped her off at 4-5pm every sunday then went to Play bass in a bar. It was perfect, Mollie loved it and there were no complaints about her behaviour.

she says she's going to "get a professional" but i can still go down on Mollie's birthday.

Basically, it's silly that she can't get on the same page as me and realize that 3 year old will act this way if something unsettles them no matter if it's pleasant or not. they have no other ways of expressing how they feel. I know this because I have seen my niece in the same situation when her dad wasn't about (that's a whole different story my sister was reasonable and he did some stupid stuff).

Either way, I require her address and Ideally, not a 200 mile distance but even an order for 1, maybe 2 phone calls a week and every other weekend (which i would be willing to travel for providing i can afford £72 2 times a month for train fares). would be better than nothing.

So, yeah, Thanks Buzz, Actd for the advice.

Forms + Application fee is extremely do-able. Just all that other stuff to figure out, eh?

I think that what you are asking for is very reasonable and I can't see that a judge wouldn't think so also.

With regards to the cost of travel, if you are paying maintenance, the CSA calculation allows you to deduct reasonable travel expenses from your takehome salary in calculating what you have to pay. Also, check out a website such as www.thetrainline.com and see how much tickets cost if you book a couple of weeks in advance - quite often there is a big saving to be made and you can use this as an additional argument in court as to why contact dates should be clearly defined, so that you can afford to see your daughter on a regular basis.

Thanks,
Advance bookings aren't always possible due to my pay date and the dates i usually go picking her up around and there's little saving on the kind of tickets i need to get (open returns just in case).

I'm now faced with the forms but i still require an address for her on them.

Today was my daughter's birthday and due to company policy i couldn't get the day off (i'm the office's sole I.T. desktop support guy) because there are tonnes of the 1st level techs on holiday. I tried to call ALL day and all i got was a text telling me that My daughter's behaviour changes after she talks to me so i wasn't even allowed to wish my daughter a happy birthday.

I am supposed to be seeing her, at my Ex's place, on saturday with her presents. Something tells me she might find something wrong with this and stop it so i may not end up having her address or anything close.

If there's a way to obtain this Legally, would it be wrong of me to do so without her knowledge in the eyes of a judge?

I'm not sure I follow - are you saying that she will text you her address only if contact goes ahead?

If she is being this obstructive, then I would say that she is leaving you no choice but to go ahead with mediation and if this doesn't work, then a contact order. As for getting her address, I'm not sure how you do this, hopefully the Children's Legal Centre may advice, or ask the courts - I'm sure it must be something they come across reasonably regularly.

As for the tickets - it may still be worth pricing up a return in advance - depending on how often contact is, it still may work out quite a bit cheaper in the long run to book a cheap advance return and accept that on a few occasions, you don't use them - and as I said, it could be a good argument to the court for granting a contact order for specified dates and times.

Sometimes, some journeys work out cheaper if you do them as to singles 🙂 ...Trust me on this..I had to go to London (from Chester) to a meeting, and the journey as two singles worked out about a tenner cheaper!

Worth a look 🙂

Dear Rik,

As mentioned in the posts above, you are able to apply for a contact order to see your daughter yourself as opposed to going through a solicitor. It seems that you already have the relevant application form, which is the C100, available from www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk . There are also several guidance forms to assist on completing this form and the service of court papers, which are the CB1 and the CB3 also available from the above website.

Once completed this needs to be filed at the Family Proceedings Court closest to where the child is living with the required fee of £175. This will normally be your only fee if you are representing yourself.

There are several options open to you in relation to not knowing the mother’s address. Some law firms offer a receiver service; this is where a solicitor can locate a person and their address and therefore enable you to serve court papers. The other option is for you to apply to court for the child’s whereabouts to be disclosed to you. The courts are able to trace people and locate their addresses in some circumstances in order to enable court documentation to be sent to them. Should you wish to do this you will also be required to file form C4 at court with your application. There may be an additional fee for this.

Once these issues have been resolved and the matter goes to court, the court will hear all the circumstances of the case and any arguments that you and the mother may have.

As a general rule, the courts are very much in favour of contact and as you have had a very good relationship with your daughter up to this time, it is unlikely that you would not be successful in gaining contact. The contact that you have suggested is not unreasonable and is an arrangement that is often put into place by the court.

The court makes all decisions based on what is thought best for the particular child and each case is different but the court do like to maintain contact and a relationship between children and parents when it is safe for the child to do so.

You are also able to request that the court puts some provision in the order for the travelling. The court can order that the travelling is shared, or that the resident parent pays towards the travelling expenses if it is thought suitable in your situation.

There is additional information on representing yourself in court (also known as acting as a Litigant in Person) at http://www.elc.org.uk/pages/lawlips.htm and http://www.fnf.org.uk/law-and-informati ... yourself-1 .

We hope this information is useful to you, should you require further advice please contact the Child Law Advice Line on 0808 8020 008 and an advisor will be happy to help you.

Kind Regards
Children’s Legal Centre.

You are also able to request that the court puts some provision in the order for the travelling. The court can order that the travelling is shared, or that the resident parent pays towards the travelling expenses if it is thought suitable in your situation.

I'll just add a comment on here from my own personal experience which you may find useful when looking at this - my ex tried to do this when we were sorting out the contact order, she lives in Manchester, and I have the children in Hertfordshire. CAFCASS said in their report that they considered that the journey would be too onerous for my children, and the court determined that my ex had to do all of the travelling and there was no allowance made for travelling costs.

Cheers, i saved £6.50 using singles!

Yeah, she, for some reason allowed my daughter to stay with me for a week.

Now though, same story, Mollie's behaviour is "unacceptable" and it's apparently my fault.

these forms are taking ages to process.

Thanks.

Right now she's not even willing to contact me after i sent her text messages.

I have a mediator in Grimsby who is going to send her a willingness letter. Let's hope this goes well.

Sorry for bumping this old thread but I feel the need to share this.

So, I got the ball rolling for Mediation and she still has not agreed a date, when i threatened with this she started being all nice saying we didn't need it ETC.

I'm still chasing it up but if she's unwilling to mediate can i just go straight to court? (the court told me i need to try mediation before applying to them).

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard face here, she's being nice as pie and maintaining that i can "see my daughter any time" but cancelling last minute every time.

also, she has decided that she's staying put @ 200 miles away.

My options are only to keep attempting mediation according to the court.

Is there any way around this? can the court not see that i clearly cannot get mediation and just let me serve papers?

any advice welcome, i'm so sick of not seeing my daughter.

Keep a record of all attempts to mediate, and also all cancelled contacts, plus all other correspondence - texts, emails etc, and also a note of all phone conversations you have had (whether good or bad). The court want to see that you have attempted mediation - which you obviously have - before you apply to court, so you should npw be able to move on. The Childrens Legal Centre should be able to advise you about the next steps.

thanks,

Unfortunately the documentation is very hard to come by. I've tried to keep a record of everything but everything is so hectic that i don't always write everything down.

I have text messages stored as backups and online so that helps, Mediation attempts i've got logged.

It's a 200 mile journey, she told me yesterday that she now has no intention of moving back to Manchester but I can "visit whenever i want" now, these keep getting cancelled.

I can't live like this, she knows that she can essentially control me with this and I cannot live like that. If i wanted to live like that I'd still be trying to get her to come back, right? 😉

why the [censored] do all of them turn into psychos? Luckily my current girlfriend understands which is nice.

anyway, i'm rambling.... *caaaaalm*.

Back to the point - Mediators to be contacted monday morning again, [censored] her this time i'm setting a date whether she likes it or not! if she doesn't show up, what then?

hiya
im not an expert like other guys in the forum but I do have some knowledge which I would like to share with you mate

First you need to stand concrete on the part that - you are a father, and fathers have equal rights as a mothers. It means both the parties should be allowed to spend proportionate time with the child/children. It’s fairly simple to let it go easy but you do not catch the opportunity on time..its likely you won’t get another chance.

Mediation is the first step towards solving the disputes between father and mother, however from my point of view its useless. Mediation doesn’t hold that much prerogative as compare to a court order. Any breach in court order will led to serious penalties- and everyone knows that.

wrapping up – go for a proper court order once and for all, know your rights and think of yourself.

Cheers mate

Thanks,

From what i understand though courts will say that mediation is required. A colleague went for a court order straight away but got told to revert to mediation. I got told the same thing when i went to submit my form. 🙁 ( . This has been back and forth for months. it sucks.

I probably do need to think more about myself but at the end of the day I cannot help but think of how to make this all easier on my daughter, the options are limited as she lives 200 miles away and goes to school monday - friday part time (afternoons). I can't always grab time off to spend with her either as i'm the sole person in the office with my role which is extremely important. part of me wants to just quit my job then i'd probably get legal aid and all the access i can get with nothing stopping me but then i wouldn't be able to afford the train fare.

it's messed up but the last time i applied to the court they told me to try mediation.

Hi rik

As this process of suggesting mediation and then getting knocked back has been going on for some time, I would have thought that you had a good case for now applying to the court, especially if you have records showing failed mediation attempts that have been going on for some considerable time. I would have imaged there must be a finite number of attempts at mediation before it is deemed to be a fruitless exercise.

It may be worth getting in touch with the court again and explaining the situation. You may also find it helpful to talk it through with Families Need Fathers who will understand the issues here. You can call them on 0300 0300 363, http://www.fnf.org.uk

thanks Mikey, i've filled out the forms now. Just got to get £175 and take them to the court. I don't need a solicitor overcomplicating things, i'll say my piece and do my best. I don't have the £3000 to hire a solicitor and i cannot save it up until likely after christmas. because i earn i can't have legal aid yet that's stupid. I have nothing against people who don't work but i just wish the system worked better for ppl that did. :'(

Hey, good luck with it - please let us know how you get on.

All the best

I'll ditto that good luck. 🙂

Thanks guys.
So far so confusing though, I've not even been able to get her to answer the phone so i can tell her i'm taking her to court. If i can't talk to her, i can't serve her the papers. If i do it via post, she can ignore. Perservering though!!! keep y'all updated.

It will cost a little more, but you could send them registered post, or even courier - anything that is signed for and you have proof that it was delivered - it may be advisable to get someone else to send it on your behalf (check with CLC about this) so that she is less likely to refuse to sign for the letter. I wouldn't think that the court would take too kindly to her refusing to come to court if she has been served with the papers.

Another thought - she may not answer your calls, but if I send a text from t-mobile, using their online system (and I'm sure that t-mobile aren't the only one), I can request both a delivery notification and a read notification, so you then have evidence that the message has been sent to the addressee, and that it's been received by their phone.

If you know her email, you could also try http://www.readnotify.com - you can get an email tracked so that you have legal proof that an email has been read.

Thanks, Unfortunately i'm with 02, i've called / texted 4 times in the last 2 days. My last contact was saturday but she was being an [censored] so i gave her a while to calm down, tried on weds, nothing. Just texted asking her to call me.

I know for a fact she's in Manchester this weekend because she was supposed to bring mollie up for the weekend but last time we spoke she said no pretty much. unable to get hold since then.

It's a simple case of her resentment towards me i think, our relationship was far from perfect but this isn't about that is it? that's what i've tried to make her understand.

Well, i guess if i serve papers via recorded delivery then she doesn't come to court that'll look bad on her. i'm bricking it though, last time she moved without telling me, i'll serve her papers without telling her and rocking the boat, it feels sneaky but it's the only way.

Bricking it in case there's another disappearing act.

Hey guys, just thought i'd whack an update on here:

I submitted forms to the court today. The fee has risen to £200!! It has put me in a tough spot but will be worth it.

2 week wait for the stuff to get sorted, they're serving my ex for me. She's not answered the phone for ages, also I haven't seen my daughter for far too long.

I'm representing myself. Is there any advice anyone can give me to make the best of this opportunity without a solicitor present ?(i can't even afford to pay one to show up at court, it's stupid how there's no help for people who work but pay all their money out in the form of maintenence and survival...)

Thanks.

Probably worth ringing CLC for a chat.

Cheers dude, i'll get on to them *if* i get a break from work this week. Other than that they said it should take about 2 weeks. Retrospective logging stuff i might have missed, it's been 2 [censored] months, in my book that's far too long. It's not as bad as some cases, but she won't talk to me so what the [censored] am i supposed to do?

Then, she might not even turn up or even regard the letters. I know that sounds somewhat negative but i'm not all that confident she'll turn up.

I'm representing myself

Brave man Rik. I would deffo talk to the CLC and get some advice.

Really hoping this gets resolved for you and your daughters sake man. When's the court date ?

Hang in there man, it will be worth it

I've no choice. If i could afford a solicitor i'd get one.

I'll hang in there as long as it takes but for now it seems like, and I am not sure if this is normal... it seems like i could be doing more in the interim, but if she won't reply what's the point in bombarding with calls and texts?

Oh, no date yet. Hopefully shouldn't take too long though, couple of weeks max.

Hi Rik,

I share your frustration at not being able to be as proactive as you'd like. I don't think there's much more you can do until your preliminary hearing. It sounds like you've got enough evidence to suggest that you've attempted mediation. From what I've heard judges are well tuned to uncooperative behaviour and your ex isn't doing herself any favours by ignoring you!

I think the CLC give some fantastic advice to fathers who are representing themselves. In hindsight I wish I'd opted to represent myself. I've been waiting for nearly 5 months to hear whether or not I'll receive Legal Aid. My company, which I built up over eight years, is literally on the verge of bankruptcy and I had to make a claim for Jobseekers Allowance several months ago. You'd think it would be obvious that I need help, but the Legal Services Comission is dragging its feet.

In the interim I'm only seeing my son on a bi-weekly basis and I always beat myself up thinking I could be doing more. I had a shared residence agreement with my ex, which meant that he used tro live with me for half of the week. I want to apply to the the court to restore that agreement.

Good luck and I hope things go well for you!

It is pretty messed up how things like this can happen. It seems women just go psycho at some point. I've had an update though,

I text her today asking what the deal was, she gave me a bunch of [censored] about how she's going through a rough time, then said "wait for me to contact you". I basically said that's fine but all i want to do is see my daughter. The reply to that was "leave us alone" out of nowhere.

I'm really sorry if she's havin a tough time but for god's sake, if she asked for help i'd help her out, i have no animosity towards her whatsoever. I would LOVE to have things back to how they were, Daughter with me every weekend, that was top went from that to monthly because she lives 200 miles away and it's a £76 round trip.

On top of that i just asked her what's wrong with me wanting to see my daughter, apparently i "disrupt that" now, out of nowhere she's said "i'm BEGGING YOU to hear me out" like i've done something wrong?!?!?!

the court date can't come soon enough.

Now i'm being accused of disrupting my daughter's life? honestly...

Yeah I spend a lot of time scratching my head and wondering how it came to this. I keep getting frustrated by the length of time it takes to do anything, but lately I've begun to realise that this may work in my favour.

I think anyone can be on their best behaviour for a short period of time, but people usually revert back to type after a while and I think CAFACASS and the courts will see this.

My ex got herself pregnant within a matter of weeks of leaving (she wanted a second child quite desperately and thought I was making excuses when I said that I was going bankrupt). Turns out the guy she was seeing doesn't want to know and now she's going to be a single mum of two. Her own step mother tells me she has concerns about my ex's ability to cope. I worry constantly.

Why did your ex decide to move away. Does she have family there?

Reasons always get mistaken for exuse though, [censored]'s that about?

No family up there but her partner does. they have a new baby now too, I guess she wants this family life without me anywhere near my daughter. That's not going to happen until i'm DEAD.

They'll happily take our money, call us when they need something or give us sh!t.

pfffft, these bitches be crazy.

I honestly think my ex wanted to replace me, purely because I wouldn't agree to marriage or a second child until I'd stabilised the company. I think she honestly thought this other guy would become her partner and do the right thing by her, but she's been left hanging...

... her own family thought the new baby was mine up until a couple of months ago! How crazy is that?

that's pretty mental, i think that's what my ex is trying to do with the replacement. She lives 200 miles away now (without my consent as previously mentioned). Last time i saw my daughter was 4th sept, since then visits have been arranged then denied. she wants me to be "silent" in her life.. it's mental. I'm waiting eagerly for the court to sort a date out, until then it's a matter of dealing with feeling like [censored] and hoping it goes well and my daughter isn't too disheartened by it all like thinking I don't love her or something because i've not seen her in ages.

updating as things progress...
OK, so my ex got served today with the court papers. I've no idea what happens now, every legal advice centre i speak do seem to be pretty useful but really don't make anything clearer.

I've not had the papers yet, but obviously the being served didn't seem to rock my favour as now she' basically saying that i make no effort, blah blah blah. trying to make it out like i'm doing something bad.

Also, in the time it's going to take is it advisable to try and arrange seeing my daughter or make effort to?

i'm now in hyper mega uber strange mode. I know i'm doing something positive but i can't help to think that she might be able to turn this around as i'm representing myself and she is getting a solicitor.

we've exchanged messages today, I haven't had a chance to ask how my daughter is and given her current mood i didn't want to push her over the edge.

I've tried calling her for the best part of a month, she's ignored all my calls and been shitty as above with texts.

Are the CLC able to give advice on representing myself / what not to document etc?

Any help would be awesome.

I would think the best thing to do is to ring the CLC and have a chat, that way you'll get the quickest advice and know what they can and can't do.

I would continue to try to make arrangements to see your daughter - just because you're waiting for the process to continue, there's no reason why you can't keep trying. It's also possible that your ex may be more amenable to contact as she's going to try to have to be seen to be a bit more helpful.

Thanks Man, always good advice.

At the moment she's basically not going to entertain the idea but I will still ask because If she agrees then that'll be AWESOME. I have 2 days off work at the end of this month too, payday and the following Monday so that'll be a fun weekend.

At this time of year i'm not sure what happens with this sort of stuff, I'll call the CLC tomorrow from work and also the court to find out where the [censored] my copy of the papers are.

Positive, eh?

Sorry to bump this but *UPDATE*

Court went well, got to see my girl straight away. Took her, the ex and her fella out to lunch (even though my ex started bitching behind my back on facebook the SECOND i was in the car home).

The court have decided that I can see Mollie one weekend a month which is better than nothing and have one phone call a week on saturday and HALF of school holidays.

This was started right away, and a data has been set for march to see how it's going.

Guys, this is proof that the system does work as crappy as it might seem sometimes.

🙂 ) .

rock on \m/

That's great news Rik! You're clearly made up about it! How did you feel about representing yourself?

Is that the level of contact what you wanted, or are you hoping to increase this again in March? Nice result getting contact over the school holidays 😉 You'll be able to spend some quality time with each other now!

Aye, it's all good. I just have to make sure my ex is going to stick to this and not find excuses.

She's actually in bed here at the moment, has been here since sunday. The only downer is taking her back to Grimsby on xmas eve afternoon but at least i get to see her which is all I ever wanted.

the level of contact, because of the distance and time off work / travel costs is all I can actually get without putting extra strain on Mollie which i don't want because it's unfair on her travelling 200 miles for like, one day with me then having to go all the way back up there, so that's why i made sure i threw in the phone call and the half terms etc.

In an ideal world she'd still be round the corner and i'd see her every weekend but this is definitely better than nothing and it's in place so it's just a case of making sure it all goes smoothly.

Sounds like you went in there with a strategy that put Mollie first and common sense prevailed. The holiday contact is a huge bonus. Are your friends and family in Manchester? I bet your parents are chuffed?

How did you find the representing yourself? Did she have a solicitor?Do you feel the judge was sypathetic to you and got a baring on the history of your case?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but if I end up representing myself I need to know what to expect...

It's cool man, I actually just popped that on your post (RE: representing yourself). I figured it would be more helpful there. I think it's the way forward to be honest. She did not have a solicitor although she had plenty of time to get one and i was expecting her to.

My entire life is in this City. My Parents, sisters, work, everything. Mollie was here until last Jan too. The distance definitely has an impact. My parents are beyond happy. I'm taking her to see them tomorrow. She's not seen her cousin for 3 months so that's going to be fun.

There was no strategy to be honest. I just told the truth and didn't give her any fuel for the fire. I also told the cafcass woman anything up front that might be an issue and she said that any stupid mistakes i made when i was young don't matter and there were other things like my past mental health that i was straight up about and again, i'm fine now.. so not an issue.

I say go for it and good luck man, it's a little scary at first but it's worth it in the end because at the end of the day you're there for your child so they'll see that.

> I just told the truth and didn't give her any fuel for the fire. I also told the cafcass woman anything up front that might be an issue

I think that's about the best advice possible.

Great to hear your result, well done 😀

Thanks Actd.

Dropped my daughter off yesterday (230 mile trip in my dad's car). She didn't want to go home but that might just be her being 3.. y'know?

i'm supposed to call every saturday at 4. I text asking if that's cool today or if another time would suit, it being Christmas day n all that. All i got was "P*** off rik, she's not the same girl..."

obviously i said that i'd call at normal time well, i asked if that was cool, I got "Why aren't you listening to me?"

what am i supposed to listen to? she's blatantly obstructing what we agreed. Last week i didn't even have a number for her sister where mollie was staying... it's quite silly really because this is never going to change. There's always going to be a degree of adjustment and it seems no matter what any of us with difficuly exes do they'll always keep at it trying to beat us down.

there's no need. While Mollie was here she got presents yesterday, She was bought seasonally appropriate clothing and shoes (which were not cheap), she was fed, looked after, happy, BEHAVED, just Herself.

Obviously we don't know what our children are like all the time if we're not there 24/7 but i mean, some women are just down right unreasonable.

Our next hearing is in March, If she's obstructed 2 agreed phone calls in a row how's that going to look? Especially sending me a message with a pure attitude. I bet anyone in the universe my entire video games collection that she's plastered insults all over the place towards me.

I don't play like that. It seems when we're all doing the right thing it's never good enough.

We'll all win in the end. I mean, I can't see her letting mollie live with me and i'm not sure how i would go about that because she's clearly being unreasonable.

sorry for the massive rant but i mean, the situation was almost boxed off but she's still playing the same card.

any advice on how i can proceed is welcome. I obviously don't want to "harass" her, but I also want to stick to what we agreed. saturdays at 4 i call mollie. If she doesn't stick to that what can i do?

Basically, you do everything by the book and keep records - texts like the one you have received will not go down well at all in court. Worth having a word with the CLC about how you go about getting the date of the next hearing brought forward if your ex stops you having contact. Unfortunately, you have come up against the not uncommon problem of how these orders are enforced - if she doesn't comply with the order, then it's contempt of court, which the courts take seriously, but at what point they impose penalties, I'm not sure.

Cheers dude. Festivus merriment cheering us all up despite our situations although arranged call was hung up on 5 times. No point in keeping trying. She's alrady gone back on the agreement for calls 2 weeks in a row!

Some people just never learn do they?

To be honest, I think it's the fact that Mollie told her she didn't want to be at home she wanted to be at "proper home" with her proper dad!

I think it's the fact that Mollie told her she didn't want to be at home she wanted to be at "proper home" with her proper dad!

LOL - I can see that wouldn't go down too well. Problem is that unless there are grounds to think that your daughter isn't in a safe environment, the courts are very unlikely to give you custody (if you applied for it) so you have to work with the situation as it is. You could try to soothe your ex and tell her that you are quite happy that your daughter stays with her mother (even if you aren't completely happy).

My ex hasn't bothered to ring my children today - not particularly surprised about it, but I don't understand how a mother can just forget about her children when it's not convenient.

Indeed, it's messed up. I would ideally like mollie to live with me because my ex pushes a 3 year old academically already and she gets frustrated.

she doesn't want to go home because it's a city she's lived in for a year, she knows her home is Manchester, that's a given. I guess she just feels more comfortable around her family and such rather than 200 miles away from all her grandparents, her aunties etc...

anyhoo, it sucks that your ex hasn't even rang your kids on giftmas when it's all about family and stuff, I tried to call my daughter but got hung up on despite it being staurday at 4, i still had to drop her off yesterday and it sucked, 2 years in a row i've been given the raw deal for birthday and xmas.

Let's just hope one day they all see sense. I am currrently putting together a few details to call the court about and get date brought forward.

I take it you and your kids have had a top day though? 🙂 )

Hi Rik,

Sorry to hear that your ex has become obstructive again. Especially so soon after your court date. I agree with actd; keep a record of everything and bring it to the attention of the court. I'm sure they'll take a dim view of her behaviour.

Records are being kept, hells yes.

Just finished a weekend with Mollie over the course of which I bought about £90 worth of clothing (which was actually not that much stuff but it was quite expensive) for her as she came with nothing. This has been taken home with Mollie.

I called up just now to make sure she's ok with being back with her mum and we got into a discussion about money again. she said that there "wasn't much stuff" I simply stated it's all i can really afford. After paying roughly £80 just to pick up / drop off mollie on a usual month and after my bills, rent, debt repayments and CSA payments I don't really have a great deal. She doesn't understand this as her partner apparently pays this and that and the other out but still has money. They will get tax credits, they will also get tax credits for their new baby and all kinds of benefits, they're probably getting more than My paycheck each month ffs.

anyway,
She doesn't understand that I can't afford to pay CSA, live AND be expected to buy a whole new wardrobe each month!! I actually need new work clothes due to ripping but because Mollie comes first and I WANT to make sure she's provided for I get my gf to repair all my shirts and pants.

Anyway, she seems to think CSA is not adequate to cover everything, surely she should be paying for anything extra rather than trying to make me pay for everything?

Anyone been through this? Can cafcass help with this? I mean, the worst that can happen is she has a bit of a stop right?

Hi Rik

CAFCASS won't help with the financial side of things, that's for the CSA I'm afraid. The only thing I can suggest is that you send Mollie back in the clothes she comes to you in, and anything you buy for her stays with you for her to wear when you see her.

Aye, that's generally the way forward. I don't want to not buy her stuff, Just ya know, not be expected to spend over £100 most months on stuff she shouldn't actually need.

Other than that, all good. She seems to be playing ball (probably slags me off to high heaven on facebook etc but meh, she can do that all she likes). I had the money convo with her before, she hung up. I know she's staying at her mum's this week in Manchester so i'm going to try plan a little extra Mollie time. 😀

I think she achieves the extra stuff through putting me on the spot completely. We were due for a 2.5 hour train journey and when i picked her up she was in shorts with "leggings" so that was apparently ok, in January. Besides that when i asked if there was a bag for her i got "no because she needs all new stuff". Right there i'm on the spot. I had to get her a change of clothes and underwear etc in case of accidents from the store, missing the train etc... had to get a later train.

Although i earn a pretty decent wage I have a lot of expense. Travel to and from work, Travel to and from Grimsby, Debt repayment, student loan payment, rent, ya know... that stuff called food.

Her argument is that me and the gf "split" everything. When i said to her "what about the CSA money?" she hung up.

I've spoke to the CSA about it before and all they say is that they can't get involved. If i refuse then i feel like i'm doing wrong by my daughter but if i say yes i'm skint. Either way i feel bad. It's a total moral head [explitive deleted].

I'll try the CSA again though, also might see if I can get her to understand that i WILL buy my daughter things she needs but i refuse to be put on the spot when I myself can barely exist. I guarantee with benefits and her partner's wage I don't get why she's unable to provide anything other than the bare minimum herself, i pay £218 a month in support and i know someone who's ex paid her £150 a month, she's on about 10 grand less a year than i am too and she said that MORE than covered everything, that child has never been without and has always had everything she needs and more.

It just irritates me that since going to court and getting access she's needed more stuff from me all of a sudden. Trying to make it so i have nothing? why? it sucks. I set aside extra money for Mollie each month anyway but i'd like to spend that on her like, going on trips / fun things and yeh, i'll usually send her home with a new outfit. is that unacceptable?

Hi,

Just thought I'd pop in and update this in case my experience can help anyone else.

Since the court hearings i've been seeing my daughter regularly and even had some extra time with her. My ex has expressed and made it known to the court that she wishes to move back to Manchester (she said within 3 months) so the court are aware of this.

The only problem is now i constantly feel like i've done something wrong because she nit picks when i drop my daughter off despite me not doing anything out of the ordinary.

I make sure she's fed, clothed, watered and happy. We play, we go places, she is getting quite independant so she now dresses herself and brushes her own teeth etc.

Just a word of advice I think is worth sharing though:

Having regular contact and seeing your kids is the positive part of this whole ordeal but in my experience it's made things better and worse at the same time when it comes to communicating with my ex. She's finding faults constantly. My daughter's behaviour after being at my place is always called into question despite her being good.

she's brigning up personal differences more and has recently, from what I can see, been up to her tricks online again and telling anyone and everyone who has ears that i'm... well, [censored]. I can tell you now i do nothing wrong, ok someimes i mess u pbut doesn't everyone?

My point is, can I do anything about this legally or can she get her own court case as she's threatened to do which was actually over me dropping my daughter off in new jeans!

[censored]

Hi Rik,

Not sure which bit you are asking about whether you can do anything about legally, but as a general rule, if something is being done wrong, then the answer is that you can sort it out in court. However, you have to be practical about these things - a court is going to get a bit fed up if you or your ex go to court for minor things, and even if they do agree and put something extra in a court order, the question is how is this going to be enforced - basically, you'd have to go back to court again.

If the infringements are minor, I'd keep a record of everything so that if you ever go back to court on something more major, then you can bring it all up then.

With regards to the clothes you are buying, there is one other thing you could try - this is rather unorthodox, and I've not tried it, so I have no experience of whether it works. First, work out roughly what you are spending each month on clothes for your daughter. Each time you spend anything, keep the receipts, and also a diary of why you bought the clothes (take photos if your daughter arrives in inappropriate clothes and add these to the diary). Then deduct that amount from the amount you pay the CSA, and put that amount into a savings account - explain in writing to the CSA why you are reducing the amount you pay (in theory, to reduce the amount you pay, you should go for a variation, but I don't think you have adequate grounds for one). At some point, the CSA are going to wake up and go after you for the arrears, and to get the arrears, they will have to take you to court - at this point you will have the opportunity to explain to a judge why you have reduced the payment, and present your evidence (diary and receipts) - if the judge agrees with you, then the money you have put aside remains yours, if the judge doesn't agree, then you pay over the arrears that you have been putting aside, and you are no worse off (except possibly a small claims court cost against you).

As I said, I've never heard of this being done, so a second opinion may be worthwhile before you start doing this.

Thanks dude,

I'm not going to head back to court over minor things like her being upset about personal things, it's a little silly. I'd bring it up at a scheduled hearing if i thought it was relevant (we have one in November). If it affects me seeing or speaking to / about my daughter then it becomes an issue. Just trying to cover all bases.

I've got receipts and I generally do take photos if something is amiss when she comes over (like shorts in feb). I'm not trying to be shitty, just concerned about my child's well being.

How she deals with personal problems is none of the court's concern but like i say, if it affects the contact then it will be an issue.

I mean, I called to check on my daughter's new shoes to see if I might have needed to take them back to get different ones while she was local. no call back. It could have been more important. anyway, enough waffling...

..I just hope the updates here can help someone else in similar predicaments too.

..I just hope the updates here can help someone else in similar predicaments too.

Hopefully so, and it's also good to hear how you are going on - you seem to have a pretty good take on life generally 🙂

Well, Thanks for that dude.

Regardless of how we view our lives and everything around us it's our kids that pick up on it so I find it's important to stay positive even if i'm not around my daughter.

Did try to call yesterday, at 4, As the court ordered. She wasn't there.

Was told to try again at 6, She wasn't there. Then she said to call tomorrow (today) and when i called she had a rant about how it's Mother's day and she doesn't want ME ruining that by talking to my daughter. she had spite in her voice.

Things she's said on the phone are really hurtful like... I, apparently cannot take any credit for how my daughter's turning out. She's picked up a couple of harmless things from me like, really harmless (like saying Aaaw if she drops something. and she had an accident (wee wee) when i dropped her off on Monday.

I mean, with this kind of nit picking with no real explaination is it any wonder we need the court's help who would apparently "Laugh me out of court" If I told them she wasn't sticking with the plan... Um, I'd call that contempt of court and that's quite serious.

As mothers everywhere get bombarded with gifts... GOOD ones....

... We need to think about the ones that we have to deal with and how they're putting our children through unneccessary stress by living 200 miles away, Stopping us seeing them, Disallowing us to be a full part of their lives....

...These women, in my eyes, don't deserve this day. We deserve our day though for fighting tooth and nail just to see our kids for the little time we do because of these people who think it's ok to stop us for no good reason.

I will be calling my sister today and I will remind her that she is the best mum in the universe. My niece is 5 and even though my sister and Sophie's dad haven't been together for 4 years she gets to see him every weekend despite his less than amazing track record and my sister is fantastic at dealing with any issues. He doesn't give her any money and she prefers it that way because she can provide for her child without help!

My sister is an amazing mother, the ones we have to deal with should take a masterclass from her.