[Solved] Going to court for Parental Responsibility/ Contact Order

I think the first thing I'd say is to be prepared for a rough ride, but from what you've said, I'd say that there is no reason why you shouldn't get what you are after. Go for the maximum contact you want (within reason) but be prepared to compromise for less contact at first, but building it up over time.

Try to get the whole schedule written into the first contact order, that way you won't have to go back for a variation - will save you a lot in legal costs.

Hi andyandlibby,

I'll deal with the quickest first. To gain PR, you'll need to do it in one of the following ways:
- Being married to the mother
- Having your name registered or re-registered on the birth certificate
- The mother agreeing that you can have PR
- Obtaining a parental responsibility order from the court (*)
- Obtaining a residence order from the court
- Becoming the child's guardian on the mother’s death

The * is probably your easiest method to do this given information you have disclosed.

With regards to contact:::
The first thing that will happen is that you will have an Interim hearing. During this hearing, as per the direction of the courts you will have to attend both a PIPS (usually) (Parenting Information Programme) and also Mediation. You need to be clear to the court that should Mediation be successful you would still like the mediation agreement put into a Defined Order from the Courts when you next come to the review.

Note: The First Mediation meeting is an assessment meeting and is usually free, afterwards it will cost unless you are on legal aid. If you are legal aid it will be free, however if you don't qualify for legal aid prices vary from Mediator to Mediator but can be as high as £120+VAT

Once you have had Mediation (and)(or) PIPS, several months later you will either have agreed or disagreed. If you disagree a Court may make or take recommendations from the Mother (or her Defence (barrister/solicitor) on what she recommends.

Chances are as you have only seen her for a few hours each week, she could possibly argue quite convincingly that this would seriously upset her routine and your capability needs to be tested further. This may result in either a Contact Centre or extended hours to which you are allowed to see your daughter. This is then reviewed (normally after several months).

All of this is of course provided that the mother agrees. Given the circumstance and the undertones i'm picking up if she were to completely refuse a Judge would have limited powers on exactly what he might be able to actually impose on the mother in order that she comply with what is set out at each hearing.

But should these initial barriers be cleared you could start to see some progress.

My story isn't all that different from yours, generally speaking.

Please don't forget to keep us up to date with Court appointments and what you are asking your solicitor to put into the Contact Application.

Thanks for the replies.
Yoji, I dont beleive we are going for Mediation, just waiting now for a court date. Or will mediation be a part of the court process?
Is my ex legally obliged to show up to court once the letter has been received by her, or could she simply ignore it?
Im applying for PR due to my name not being on ther Birth Certificate, would I need to perform a dna test for the court to prove I am the father? And when I pass that would the court automatically have to give me PR?
There is no good reason for me not to have PR, I can look after my daughter fine, im very confident of that. Im not much of a drinker, I dont touch drugs, I work full time and keep a house running. I pay for my daughter through our bank accounts each month and am always here for her. Its just me and my ex simply dont get on, im sure she sees this as a way of hurting me, yes it is, but in the long run shes hurting out little girl more.

Hi,

Mediation is now a mandatory undertaking issued by the courts. There is very few instances where this is not done (i.e. a danger to one person or the other).

She couldn't ignore the letter as there are/would be consequences. So yes she would have to show up to court. You wouldn't necessarily have to have a DNA test and even if you did pass it the court wouldnt necessarily grant you PR.

From what you are saying there doesn't appear to be a reason why PR is being denied so a court may find in your favour. Its good, but do you pay direct maintenance to her Mum, even if you don't get on its no excuse for not paying toward supporting her.

Many people on here and elsewhere will usually see the darker side of their maintenance i.e. the ex always walking around in new things, new hair do's and some even bragging about what they are spending the maintenance on.

Its good you keep a bank account and pay into that for your daughter. I do the same, i've got my Nan and Granddad doing it and also i've got my Dad paying in £10 a month (all different accounts) for my little treasure 😀

Will she be legally represented? Barrister or on legal aid (again barrister represented?). Are you acting as a LIP (Litigant in Person/On your own) or are you getting a Solicitor to help at the court?

If you are a LIP i could give some useful advice of the procedures if you so wish?

Hiya Yoji,

I pay £100 directly into my ex's account every month which is for child maintenance. I also have a small savings account put aside, not much in it as the present, but every little helps!

I know that she has Legal Aid, she works but I think she qualifies for it.
I have a solicitor for court yeah. She'd better be a good one, the amount im paying her! 😉

I hope so too.

Solicitors aren't cheap.

Keep us posted 🙂

Hi, Yoji or anybody, my solicitor sent the forms to court last week, does anybody know how long it might take for them to get back to us?

Hi andyandlibby,

If your solicitor sent the forms off, the court will have scheduled a deadline date. Generally speaking, the date for your hearing "should" be within 2weeks of this.

Do you have your letter from the courts? It should detail instruction of:

1) Deadline for yourself and spouse to submit forms to each other and the courts
2) The date of the Court Hearing
3) Maybe any special directions

im not sure Yoji, all I know is my solicitor emailed me last week saying that she was sending the forms off to court, im just waiting now. Just wondering how long I might be waiting for for them to get back to us or to get an actual date

Best thing to do is to contact your Solicitor and ask what date the forms needed to be submitted and also what date has been set for the court.

Can't say that not having a date for court is the usual procedure.

It should be that a hearing takes place. In this hearing it is agreed parties cannot agree and a date is thus set for a contested hearing. The legal adviser will then (usually) say the applicant has until [Date] to get a statement to the Courts and the Respondent. The Respondent then has until [Date] to return a response to your statement.

This response is then discussed at your hearing and you get to argue (nicely) the points raised. Generally speaking many Mothers usually use badmouthing or questioning your ability as a parent in a response and will draw upon historical events. There are actually perfect responses to give to many of these, many Mothers use badmouthing because their response will lack meat without it. Finally its becoming increasingly common amongst courts that these tactics very often show a desperate Mother. On a surprising number of occasions they are frightened of loosing control or the bargaining chip (read child) to get their way.

If you receive a statement from your ex i would be interested to know if it also follows this pattern.

Sounds a lot like the way my ex behaved in court about 6 years ago 😆 though she was trying initially to get the children back after I had removed them from her care.

It's to your advantage if she does this, because if you argue rationally and calmly, the judge is likely to be much more sympathetic to you.

mate I will be cool, calm and collected. I have done nothing wrong, I have no reason to feel like I am the bad guy and start arguing. I simply want to be part of my daughters life, and I feel it would be in her best interests to have 2 loving parents in her life. Simple as, that will be my only argument. Can you beleive she lives a 5 minute walk away and I have barely seen her for 3 weeks. I just wish things would get a move on, i miss her so much, im just waiting for this court date!

I have received a response from my ex's solicitor after we informed her of my intentions to go to court.

Basically says : If your client is intent on issuing court proceedings, please serve our client personally. However, having discussed the matter with our client she is willing to reconsider her position to the issues regarding contact and as such would hope that your client would reconsider his position.
Our client would suggest that both of our clients discuss the matter between themselves and come to a mutually agreeable arrangement"

This is total rubbish! My ex knew about the Court since 22nd July bus has refused all contact aswell as my texts/calls since!

My solicitor wrote back basically:
We confirm that the reason our client wishes to issue court proceedings is because despite your clients assurance that she will reconsider her position she is refusing to answer our clients calls or discuss contact matters.
if your client is prepared to pur forward proposals for contact then we will speak with our client further regarding the court proceedings. However our client is understandably anxious that your client may state that she is in agreement with some contact taking place and then will not allow the contact to happen as has been her stance so far"

Looks like she is just trying to fob me off with this letter hoping I dont take it to court. My ex will say one thing then do another. Also it doesnt mention the PR I am requesting.
Looks like its still going to court

Hi andyandlibby,

The response is one i'm very familiar with. Not to mention the actions of your ex.

I would say very certainly, that in light of what has been said by her Solicitor, you should press on with Court proceedings. It seems to me, that if an amicable arrangement would/could have been reached, it would have been done so by now.

Also with a mild reference to their statement about serving the application on her Solicitor, you have done nothing wrong in this. In fact serving this application to a Solicitor acting on behalf of the respondent is in the guideline notes!

I honestly (and speak from experience) would say that your ex won't agree to contact. Courts will be your only recourse.

Yeah Yoji I think that thats a pretty standard response from any solicitor. There is not a chance my ex will sit down and come to an agreement with me which we are both happy with. Also, the next time she goes in a mood she will simply change her mind, I know her too well. She will not give me PR without going to court either.
Her solicitor must have sat her down and said look, if he goes for PR and access he is more than likely going to get what he wants. I have no choice but to go to court. She makes me feel like the bad guy by doing this, but it is all for our daughter and I would rather do it now while she is young.

Hi guys, Finally received a court date today of 13th October. It was a letter from CAFCASS. In the letter it says they will be ringing me in the next couple of weeks for a discussion re my childs welfare etc. Anybody here know what kind of questions they will be asking me? Just id prefer to prepare as I wouldnt like to come across as nervous on the phone and say something wrong

Hi andyandlibby,

Fantastic news on the court date and glad it is so soon.

I take it that the court is for both PR and Contact?

In response to your CAFCASS question. They will just call to ascertain some details from you to carry out a CRB check. They will also check if you have other children (possibly check with SS if there has been any involvement etc). They will also ask some searching questions about the relationship with your ex and if there have been any instances of police involvement, DV or similar.

Just be open and honest. What you might find is that you will have a CAFCASS report which has your position as being summarised over 5-6 lines whereas the summary from your ex will be double/triple or getting on for a page.

For example, my CAFCASS report, my summary of the situation was 4 lines. However my ex's was half a page of badmouthing and bashing. Not at all showing any form of construction. I'd hazard a guess from seeing quite a few and reading a few tales on the internet that this may well be the case for your ex too. Its quite a common thing for women/single mums to do.

Keep us posted 🙂

Thanks again Yoji!

Yes its for both PR and a contact order.
That sounds simple enough then. No criminal record here, no police involvement or social services. yeah your right im expecting a fair bit of bad mouthing from my ex. I wont, I will concentrate on my daughter. At the end of the day, me and my daughter have a good relationship, I have her unsupervised every week at the moment for 3 hours, the court will take this all into account I am sure

Hi andyandlibby,

Thats good. PR should be dealt with before the contact as its much simpler to discuss. If you are the father and showing involvement it won't/shouldn't be denied.

might i make a suggestion, if you attend court i would certainly stipulate that you want an immediate increase from 3hours to say 10am-6pm as currently 3 hours is not sufficient at all, and likewise the 8hrs isn't sufficient to build a quality relationship, hence your seeking to go for overnight contact.

I had two cafcass reports - one of almost 60 pages, and a second of about 15 pages. I seem to recall that remarkably little of the reports concerned me - because there was very little to report, most was about my ex and the situation the children had been living in when they were with her (ie, very damning).

I agree with Yoji - be totally open and honest, make sure that they know your first concern is for your daughter.

thanks for all the advice guys, ill be back with an update when cafcass ring.

Hi guys, not been on here for a while, just an update.
Well my court hearing was set for October 13th, but I was told a couple of days beforehand that due to funding for my ex's solicitor not arriving in time, my ex would not receive any representation if the hearing were to go ahead that day. Anyway, we decided to adjourn the hearing as it seemed pointless paying to go and my ex having no solicitor with her.
My solicitor said that because I am already 'in the system' my next date should arrive quicker, still nothing as of yet 🙁
Also, CAFCASS did ring a week before the suposed court date, it was just a simple chat, wether I had any concerns about my daughters welfare etc. She did though ask if I was prepared to go through with a drugs test which I of course said yes to. Not sure if my ex has concocted something saying I take drugs or is this a normal thing for CAFCASS to ask?
At the moment I have my daughter for about 3 and a half hours each sunday, which I am getting sick of now, I would like to do things with my daughter, although I did take her to the local play cantre last week which was nice. And some contact is better than none at the moment I guess.

Hi andyandlibby,

Sorry to hear of your continued troubles.

This Solicitor i firmly believe has deliberately not attended. This is one of many common ploys used by other parties so as to extend the process... sometimes with the result being that the Applicant drops their claim (so to speak).

Your date should be reset within around 2-3wks for a hearing. Any longer and i would press the Courts for an earlier hearing.

If something similar happens next time, or your ex cannot attend i would certainly take the following actions:
- Contact the Court upon receipt of any advanced cancellations of any Court hearings, you as the applicant are entitled to refuse to not accept an adjournment. Note: The hearing will go ahead but the Session will undoubtedly be adjourned
- The point of attending a Court hearing that would/will otherwise be adjourned is that you will still get to have your say in front of a Legal Individual (be that Magistrate, Legal Advisor or Judge). Should this happen i would definately bring up the potential issue of the Court process being abused with the intention of delaying the application process.

Relating to CAFCASS I have to be honest and say that asking for a drugs test is not a normal process. If you have disclosed that you have history relating to drug use then this may be a precautionary measure. However why not ask CAFCASS why they are requesting you take a drugs test?

Good luck and keep us up to date.

Hi andyandlibby,

I agree with yoji entirely about the drugs test, they would normally only ask for this if there is any reason to think that you may have taken any, which basically means an accusation from your ex. I don't think that cafcass are obliged to tell you at the moment of anything your ex has said (though I could be wrong), but to be honest, I think it could be to your advantage - if your ex is making unfounded allegations, and you are more than willing to take the tests to prove otherwise, it makes her look much worse in court. The only problem is that you may have to pay for the test, so I'd certainly ask Cafcass about this aspect, and see if there is any way that the cost of the test can be paid for from your ex's legal fund.

I also agree that it's not unusual for one of the parties to slow proceedings to increase the costs for the other either in an attempt to get the case dropped, or out of spite to increase costs (it happened to me 🙁 ), so the more you can get sorted before your hearing (and that includes a drug test if necessary), the less reason there is to get the case adjourned to subsequent hearings.

Thanks for the replies guys.
Well its been 3 weeks now waiting for another date, I think ill give it until the end of this week.
I did think it sounded a bit fishy saying her solicitors funding was not available.
I really want to get there before Christmas.
As for the drugs thing, my ex has shown herself up as a liar before, she claimed I, my mother and grandmother all have drinking problems! That claim got shot down straight away. I work 72 hours a week doing security, I have been working in partnership with Greater Manchester Police for the last 4 years. Previous to that I was a sports coach, so obviously a drink and drug habit would not be feasible in my line of work! I just find it laughable, after the things my ex admitted to me about her drug use before we met, but I will not bring up her past as I do not want to begin a slanging match. I just want to see my daughter more, pure and simple!

Hi andyandlibby,

Well done. At the end of the day you have the information if it is asked for. One thing i always try and advise is that getting drawn into slanging matches may only mean judges think you will both be as bad as each other and in many instances i dare say need to grow up a little.

Often you learn more about your ex-partners after separation than you ever could have with them... and at that moment you feel all the better knowing that you are not with that person any more.

4weeks sounds excessive for a re-scheduled date. I would be chasing this up with the courts after 2wks to be honest.

I'd be tempted to mention her drug use to carcass if its reasonably recent as it's relevant. Don't make a big issue of it though.

Morning, came home to a court letter last night.
8th December its been scheduled for, but the court letter seems different from the last one.

It says 'this matter is listed for Intervention Hearing with CAFCASS'

Is this just a meeting with a Cafcass officer or an actual court hearing?

Hi andyandlibby,

I think that something is afoot here.

If they have scheduled and Intervention Hearing then CAFCASS are just wanting to check a few things out. I would contact CAFCASS as soon as possible to get some extra information on exactly why an Intervention Hearing is going ahead.

You mentioned about drug testing... have you had it already?

Am I allowed to contact CAFCASS directly myself? Ive tried contacting my solicitor but shes away today.
As for the drugs test, no, ive heard nothing about that since the chat I had with Cafcass last month.

Hi,

Yes of course you can contact them. If you do not have their number, contact the Court where the hearing is due to take place and request the number for CAFCASS.

So you have not yet had a drugs test through CAFCASS... hmm i wonder whether this hearing may be to put matters on hold until a drugs test is completed...

Call CAFCASS and see what they say...

Thatnks Yoji, ive just spoke to Cafcass, they said that this will be a meeting between me, my ex, cafcass and a judge. If we cannot reach an agreement then the judge will step in to see what he can come up with.

Excellent, this sounds like a final hearing then...

One final question (which i will respond to later) have CAFCASS highlighted that there is any risk to your child? As it seems highly unusual for CAFCASS to be involved [still] at this point. Usually where there is no risk to the Child, CAFCASS will normally not sit in on any hearings after the first one or two hearings.

Well its the first time weve been to court, I think thats why theyre involved? Or is it because im going for PR and Contact? There were no issues raised in my conversation with cafcass regarding to my daughters welfare.

I see... well that is normal then. I can't say i however wouldn't be wary about it being called and Intervention hearing. Usually this happens when there is evidence that a child may be at risk.

As this is your first hearing, CAFCASS will attend. It is generally seen as a directions hearing.

I received a letter from her solicitor today asking if we could cancel the court date and go to Mediation instead. I also received texts from my ex saying I think we should sort it out ourselves, its silly, paying to go to court etc.
I then asked her if we talk between ourselves, would she be prepare to give me more time with my daughter and Parental responsibility. Her answer was no, but maybe in the future.

So what would be the point in going to mediation then? I would still have to pay and be back where I started after it.
I just dont want to go to court, and her make out as if im the unreasonable one saying "look ive asked him to come to mediation with me and he's still dragging me to court"

i just want to get this all over and done with, hope the court can set out times and days I can have with my little girl and give me parental responsibility.

Hi Andy

It's annoying, but I think realistically, you are going to have to go to mediation otherwise you are going to be at a disadvantage if you go to court having refused to go. I would recommend that all communications between you and your ex is in writiing, rather than verbal, or if you do have a conversation, write it down immediately afterwards, so you have everything documented. I have never used mediation, so I can't advise on the process, though others on here no doubt can.

Hi andyandlibby,

To me it sounds as though your ex is playing the "I'll be reasonable card" (Until you drop your case).

As the process is started. I would have your Solicitor return a letter to her Solicitor to say that you agree to the Mediation at the next date being cancelled however you want a new appointment with the Mediatior within two weeks. If your ex is unable to attend this new Mediation meeting you could:

i) Request that the matter be returned to Court under your ex's refusal to attend or prolong the issue, and you therefore believe that any future Court Directions to attend Mediation will be delayed, flouted or not attended
ii) Try one final time after this to have Mediation and again this under threat of option i).

Its difficult for me and others certainly to give a concrete answer on what is best to do because of the limitations of what we know specifically about your application and circumstance. From having a quick re-read of your OP i would probably urge you to go through Option ii), and when back at Court to begin a more forceful approach to having your recognition as someone with PR.

Hi,

Iam currently preparing for a parental responsibility court date. Iam representing myself, and would appreciate any advice on what I need to know beforehand and what happens during the case.

Kind regards

Rob

Hi Lawfield

There are a couple of stickies at the top of the legal eagle section on representing yourself in court, plus another with a link to youtube - all well worth looking at.