[Solved] Help - Ex trying to destroy me..

Hi

First off, yes you do have a chance, you are looking for defined contact as I see it, and the courts will encourage that unless there is a good reason to do otherwise. The courts are also aware of parental alienation, so don't be too disheartened about this.

One piece of advice I would give is that you don't go to your ex's house for any reason, even if arranged beforehand - you don't want the risk that she will call the police and accuse you of harrasment, it's simply something you don't need if you go to court. Keep all correspondence to what is strictly necessary, and keep all correspondence. If your ex isn't prepared to go to mediation, then the next step is court, but again, your ex is making it easier for you in court if she has refused to attend mediation.

Thanks for the reply. It has helped alleviate some of the worry.

Is there any links to court cases on the forum with regards to parent alienation?

Interesting that you say if she refuses mediation, it may go against her.
If she was to launch a hate filled tirade of lies against me, would the courts till view it dimly if she refused mediation and tried to play "the victim"?

It's just that I've heard so much about the dads getting a raw deal all the time...

Great site btw.

Hi e-dad,

Just thought i would come in to this. I agree with actd that a Defined CO is needed. And also not approaching the house.

The way i see it is your ex has now refused mediation. There's a guide at the top of this section to raising a C100 and Representing Yourself. It can be quite inexpensive, and is relatively straight forward.

Mediation will be an expectation of the Courts and one thing to take as a positive is that if Contact was happening regularly before the application to Court, they will expect this to be re-instated from the first hearing date.

While i firmly believe the Courts have their faults, there is a fast growing understanding coming through now.

Just as an addition, you may want to contact the Court to check the form you need to complete to get your belongings out of the loft. I believe the form you'll need is an N1 Claim Form, but its been a while for Claims paperwork, so check with the Courts first.

Just an update that has really got me worried again...

Letter from CSA this morning advising that the case is closed and I am no longer required to pay maintenance....
The problems is , I had no issue paying.

In my first post I mentioned my ex had contacted them to state that shared contact had stopped.
Now they are saying my case is closed???

I phoned them and they clarified that my ex had indeed stated that she no longer wished maintenance from me.

I am really concerned that this will be used against me.
Father who doesn't pay towards child.

I have been advised to refrain from any contact with my ex so how the [censored] can I advise I still want to pay towards my daughters well-being??

Hi E dad, i too am having troubles with my ex and soon will be contacting medaition. My advise is to save that money that you would be paying as maintenance and tell the court your situation and that you will backdate the payments to when maintenance was stopped.

You dont have to pay maintenance to have contact with your child, they are seperate matters and will be treated seperately, so dont get yourself worried about that. Just put the money aside and show the court if needed your bank statement showing that you have done this. You cant force them to take your money. Good luck

E-dad:

I want to just say that my view of the courts was the same as yours, with our stories being very similar and similar to many on this site………

However my experience of the family courts is a lot different, the mothers do not automatically get preference, however you have to be squeaky clean…..note everything, keep records of every event, do everything in writing where possible, do not contact her unless you have a way of proving why you have, contact the police if you need to go to the house and have them there to prevent a breach of the peace –
I had to do that with my ex after she tried to get an harassment warning after I found out she’d moved a guy in to my house that I left but still paid the mortgage on…I never kicked off cos I knew what she would do if I went round without witnesses. The police were very good and their notes and records helped me fight the ex’s allegations in court to which the Judge ripped in to her for being manipulative and a nasty piece of work for lying to them and the police.

If it gets to courts then you need to listen to peoples advice here, Yoji and Actd to name but two are top guys n really know their stuff! Their help and advice have been invaluable to me over the last year or more. Just make sure you are absolutely honest and keep squeaky clean. My ex couldn’t fight against the truth in court even her hotshot barrister and me representing myself…..i stuck to the facts and truth at all times but having records and evidence to back up everything helped me massively….
I now have a Contact order in place since Feb, the ex has broken it 3 times since then, she is now on her final warning by the courts and I feel much more confident now than when I started out down this road for a defined contact order.
If she breaks the order the court will impose penalties….Prison, community service or fines! Only really one possibly two there they would do in actual fact seeing as she not working and on benefits! But she is in no doubt that I won’t ever stop fighting to see my son and have the backing of the courts 

Good luck and never give up, good guys can win……eventually.

..... Just make sure you are absolutely honest and keep squeaky clean. My ex couldn’t fight against the truth in court.......

Good luck and never give up, good guys can win……eventually.

Excellent advice, and I am certainly living proof (and I'm not the only one) that they do. 🙂

Just an update that has really got me worried again...

Letter from CSA this morning advising that the case is closed and I am no longer required to pay maintenance....
The problems is , I had no issue paying.

In my first post I mentioned my ex had contacted them to state that shared contact had stopped.
Now they are saying my case is closed???

I phoned them and they clarified that my ex had indeed stated that she no longer wished maintenance from me.

I am really concerned that this will be used against me.
Father who doesn't pay towards child.

I have been advised to refrain from any contact with my ex so how the [censored] can I advise I still want to pay towards my daughters well-being??

This is getting VERY bizarre now.
I quoted myself as above for clarity as I hope someone has been in this situation or can at least advise.....

Ok, I had my daughter overnight 1 night at the weekend.
Not the full 2 nights as per the contact arrangement I know, but progress.

Now get this....My Ex contacted my mother to advise that if I don't hand over the maintenance money in cash by Thursday, my ex will contact the CSA again and state that I have no overnight contact.

Now I will stress, I do have documentation from the separation in regards to the mortgage etc.
In this paperwork, it clearly states the agreed overnight contact times.
Obviously this has been difficult for my daughter and I thought my partner and I were on the undertstanding that overnight contact with myself would be mutually encouraged.

Essentially my question is this: If my partner contacts the CSA and advises overnight contact has stopped, thus effectively confirming that she is not encouraging my daughter as per the contact arrangement, what grounds do I have for stating otherwise??
Would the CSA accept a copy of the paperwork??
Would the CSA view her actions unfavourably??

I know it could simply be a case of handing over the money right???
Given that my ex has a reputation for lying about money (she told family and friends I never gave her any money for my daughters Xmas presents when I gave her £200) she could simply state to the CSA at a later stage I had never paid anything.

Like I said before, I have no issue in paying maintenance......
Just very strange when my ex states to CSA that overnight contact has stopped, retracts this later that and then closes the CSA case altogether only to advise if I don't stump up cash by Thursday, she will re-open case and state I don't have daughter any nights!!

EDIT: I just want to highlight that the times we had agreed for my daughter staying overnight was only done through the lawyers shortly after separation and it has not been done through the courts.
I have still had no reply from my ex on the mediation.

Hi e-dad,

To be honest, in this situation as you have said yourself: "I had no issue in paying"... if that is the case, you contact the CSA and set up your own case, you are entitled to do that. To be honest, i would that way maintenance is out of your hands. If she doesn't want maintenance she can request the case be closed, but you have to agree to this as you are the "Instigator" of the claim.

This may seem bizarre, but its actually a highly regular occurrence. Pay or you don't see your child(ren).

In answer to your questions:
The CSA would accept a copy of the paperwork, but i would say that you should always send it recorded delivery... or if you live local to a CSA office, go and deliver it and ask for it to be DX'd to the case worker and get a receipt. Its difficult to guess the CSA position, there is definately a bias toward the mother. If they do start to refuse your evidence of overnight stays, reply in this topic and i'm sure we can give more advice. For now, thats all i think as needs be known.

If she does, however continue to break contact from an agreement and you don't get a response to mediation. I'd just file into the Courts. I think i'm quite alone in the respect of in difficult cases of contact (such as several on here), just going straight to Court rather than trying to get a response for Mediation. You have much more scope through using Courts and then Mediation as an option than with just Mediation.

My ex has just confirmed she is taking my daughter on holiday at the same time I has annual leave booked.
She never asked permission or acknowledged that I have PR as I am in Scotland and am named on the birth certificate.

I would have no issues and want my daughter to spend time with her mum on holiday.
Why then can I cannot have the courtesy of at least being asked?
I just want to be involved any any decision that involves my daughter.
I'm worried if I am not now, will I ever be?

Legally, does she need my permission?

Hi e-dad,

If your ex wants to take your daughter abroad (oversea's) then legally, yes she does need your permission.

To try and help you make sense of this situation, your ex wife will be doing a lot of this to show she has control. A part of it will also be being done to show she has her own freedom to do what she wants with your daughter. Its a noted pattern.

In the interests of remaining amicable, i'd probably do something along the following lines.

Firstly establish where she is going and make her aware to take your daughter out of the UK she needs your permission. She may deny she does, but you need to make her aware that she does and that you will write a letter to give her permission to take your daughter out of the Country.

In the letter you need to include that you agree, as it will be a positive experience for [DAUGHTERS NAME] and as you have agreed this holiday abroad (if it is abroad) then you would expect the same courtesy of being able to do the same when the situation arises.

Sign and deliver.

Could you re-arrange your holiday?

Hi e-dad,

If your ex wants to take your daughter abroad (oversea's) then legally, yes she does need your permission.

To try and help you make sense of this situation, your ex wife will be doing a lot of this to show she has control. A part of it will also be being done to show she has her own freedom to do what she wants with your daughter. Its a noted pattern.

In the interests of remaining amicable, i'd probably do something along the following lines.

Firstly establish where she is going and make her aware to take your daughter out of the UK she needs your permission. She may deny she does, but you need to make her aware that she does and that you will write a letter to give her permission to take your daughter out of the Country.

In the letter you need to include that you agree, as it will be a positive experience for [DAUGHTERS NAME] and as you have agreed this holiday abroad (if it is abroad) then you would expect the same courtesy of being able to do the same when the situation arises.

Sign and deliver.

Could you re-arrange your holiday?

Ok, so that's two letters via the lawyers with me proposing mediation she has ignored.
I also sent a letter as suggested above but that has been ignored as well.

I was speaking to a work colleague who advised that she can actually take my daughter on holiday for up to 4 weeks without my permission???

I done a google search and there seems to be conflicting opinions on this.

Is there any piece of legislation that is concrete on this?? Bearing in mind that I live in Scotland, am on the birth certificate and have my daughter overnight (or supposed to as agreement) 2 nights a week.

Thanks

Done as suggested with the letter. She refused to sign and contacted her lawyer.
My lawyer has told me that she DOES NOT need my permission!!

I know nothing about the holiday or where she is going. Can anyone please point me in the dIrection of any concrete evidence that states I do have equal parental responsibility in this please??

Hi e-dad,

Many apologies for missing your last post last month.

Your ex wife can take your daughter away only if she has a Residence Order in place for a period of no more than 4wks (28days). And if she is the only person who has Parental Responsibility.

On the other hand, if no Residence Order is in Place and you have Parental Responsibility, she must have your permission.

I've been saying this recently to another Dad on here lately that Lawyers and Solicitors (people who should know) have a massive void in their knowledge of the Law. The above is 100% concrete.

How is the situation at the moment? Is there anything else we could look to help you with?

Hi Yoji and e-dad,

I thought it would be useful to draw your attention to a recent post made by our friends at the Coram Children's Legal Centre. It relates to a very similar situation and this is what the CCLC had to say:

"If a resident parent has a residence order then they are able to take the child abroad for up to a month without the consent of the other parent. If the resident parent wanted to go away for longer than one month they would require written consent of all people with parental responsibility.
If the resident parent does not have a residence order then they do not require positive agreement but should inform the non-resident parent of the intentions and consider any reasonable objections. If a non-resident parent wishes to prevent a resident parent taking a child on holiday then he or she will need to make an application for a Prohibited Steps Order under S8 Children Act 1989.
Alternatively if a resident parent is refusing to allow a non-resident parent to take a child on holiday then the non-resident parent can seek a Specific Issue Order from the court under S8 Children Act 1989.
I hope this clarifies the law relating to taking a child abroad.
Coram Children's Legal Centre "

I have to say that I was under the same impression as Yoji, but the CCLC has a different opinion on the matter. It appears that your ex is required to inform you and consider your opinion, but, ultimately, it would appear to be her decision - unless you have a PSO in place. I doubt that a court would grant a PSO in this situation.

Hi FM70,

While i do agree with the CCLC, i also would say that all Contact Orders now state that other parent must have the "express permission of those who have Parental Responsibility" i've had mine very recently and i know its a standard issue statement. Courts would also say this.

I know where parents are unable to talk or no Contact is in place then that would be a different story. But if one parent has concerns about the other parent going abroad they would need a Court Order to grant the overseas holiday where there is no Residence Order. 🙂

Hi Yoji,

It's good to know that contact orders now provide that extra level of protection 🙂

However - and this is the rub - I don't believe e-dad actually has a contact order in place, which makes him quite vulnerable to the whims of his ex. The contact arrangements he refers to were, from what I understand, agreed through solicitors some months ago and the matter didn't go to court.

I think he needs the security of a defined contact order.

Many thanks for the reply gents, much appreciated.
Neither myself or my ex has a residence order. I just have shared contact with my daughter at weekends.

So essentially she does need my permission and there is nothing she can do about it?
I just want my place. She has made too many decisions regarding my daughter without my input. Drawing a line is needed to stop her acting a she sees fit.

She is due to leave early next week. What should I do next?

My understanding after going through it myself, and also MF for some other people, and then having clarificiation from a judge in the county court is that whilst its very murky and there is lots of conflicting information it basically comes down to that she does not need your permission

Briefly:

Parental Responsibility allows each parent to act independantly of the other and it is open to them to go to court when they cannot agree - meaning she doesnt need you permission

However, the law states that you should have consent from everyone before removing a child from the juridstication else its child abduction - meaning she does need your permission

However the law also states that if consent is unreasonably withheld then its not an offence. As the judicary believes it is unreasonable to withhold consent for a family holiday abroad shes not going to get into any trouble for it.

She should have the courtesy to ask / inform you and provide you with information of when and where they are going, but I doubt if she didnt there would be any substantial repercussions.

Hi,

You would need a Prohibitive Steps Order to prevent her from taking your child out of the country on this holiday, but given the situation it would be impossible to obtain one unless you had grave reservations about whether she was planning to remove your child permanently.

What you need to do is apply to the court for a defined contact order. In your application you can argue that you have already suggested mediation as a way of resolving your differences, but haven't received a positive response.

The court will probably order mediation anyway. You can request that any agreement reached between yourselves during the process be taken back to the court and then enshrined within an order. You want to be paying specific attention to holiday contact and special occasions such as birthdays and Christmas. You will then have an extra level of protection and, should she become difficult or obstructive in the future, you have the option of going back to court to have the order enforced.

FM '70

Ok so the holiday has been and gone.

The day before the holiday, my mother advised me to let my daughter go on holiday as did my lawyer also.
My mother was with me prior to me taking my daughter back to my ex at the agreed time.
We actually went back early as my mother wanted to discuss some issues with my ex.
You see, my daughter has been deciding that she has been wanting to stay with me against my ex's wishes.
My overnight contact was for every Sunday night & Monday night.

When we arrived back at my ex's, she was waiting. The plan was for me and my daughter to spend 5 minutes to say our goodbyes.
My ex simply pushed past my mother and moved towards the car. I started to drive away, however my ex opened the door and lunged towards and grabbed my daughter from the back seat. The poor soul was traumatised

My ex has returned from holiday and immediately spoke to her lawyer.
My own lawyer has advised that overnight contact has to stop with immediate effect on the basis I caused the grief before the holiday.
I am absolutely devastated by this.

My lawyers states I am still to see my daughter on the agreed days but not overnight??!!?? - That is baffling.
The mediation is due to take place in a fortnights time but I am under no illusion. My ex is a mental case and this wont be productive at all.

It is going to end up in court.
Surely the only grounds my ex can refuse overnight contact is if my daughter is in any danger??

Need help / advice please. I have hit the bottom.

We actually went back early as my mother wanted to discuss some issues with my ex.
You see, my daughter has been deciding that she has been wanting to stay with me against my ex's wishes.
My overnight contact was for every Sunday night & Monday night

Can you clarify what you mean when you say that your daughter has been wanting to stay with you against her mothers wishes? Has she told you that her mother didn't want her to have contact with you? Or have you had contact that the mother did not agree to?

When we arrived back at my ex's, she was waiting. The plan was for me and my daughter to spend 5 minutes to say our goodbyes.
My ex simply pushed past my mother and moved towards the car. I started to drive away, however my ex opened the door and lunged towards and grabbed my daughter from the back seat. The poor soul was traumatised.

This isn't good. In all honesty I don't think attempting to drive away was the best idea. The issue here is that neither you or the mother can be civil to each other and it does appear that your daughter is now getting caught in the crossfire. I think your solicitor recognises that there needs to be a cooling down period, because there's a chance that the situation could deteriorate and result in a loss of contact. Trust me, you really don't want that to happen.

I'd take a measure of hope from the fact that contact hasn't been stopped completely and that you have an opportunity to attend mediation. This could be an opportunity to take some of the sting out of the mutual animosity that both you and the mother quite clearly have for each other. If your issues can be resolved without involving the courts then I would consider this to the best solution for all concerned.

It may well be that you both still end up in court, so you really must stop putting yourself in the firing line. One of your original posts detailed a similar scenario. I believe you were advised to avoid situations like this, because it left you open to allegations that you have been harrassing the mother. I know this wasn't your intention, but she could easily spin it out like that and successfully take out a non-molestation order on you and/or other members of your family. Your ex could have made much more out of this incident and she hasn't, so maybe there's an opportunity to use mediation to call something of a truce?

I think FM has given excellent advice, particularly about the cooling off. Perhaps talk it through with your solicitor about agreeing to no overnight contact for now, but with a view to it restarting in 3 months time.

We actually went back early as my mother wanted to discuss some issues with my ex.
You see, my daughter has been deciding that she has been wanting to stay with me against my ex's wishes.
My overnight contact was for every Sunday night & Monday night

Can you clarify what you mean when you say that your daughter has been wanting to stay with you against her mothers wishes? Has she told you that her mother didn't want her to have contact with you? Or have you had contact that the mother did not agree to?

My daughter had been wanting to stay overnight but her mother was being difficult about it and always making excuses.

My sister was due to have my daughter overnight this coming Saturday as I am also supposed to have every 3rd Saturday.
My ex has texted stating that none of my family are allowed to have my daughter overnight.

How the [censored] can she get away with this??!!??

Why is it always the father who gets the raw deal?? Does parent alienation / implacable hostility have ANY weight in respect pf my defense whatsoever???

I know exactly how you feel, because I've been there myself and it's a horrible situation to be in. But you have to cool down and you have to think before you act, or this situation will not be resolved for a long, long time.

Mediation is an opportunity to try an draw a line through your issues and put them behind you. If you can't come to an agreement you have the option of applying to the court for a contact order, but you don't want any of these incidents being relayed back to the court or it may jeapordise your case and affect the level of contact you're asking for.

You have to be Zen-like from now on...

We actually went back early as my mother wanted to discuss some issues with my ex.
You see, my daughter has been deciding that she has been wanting to stay with me against my ex's wishes.
My overnight contact was for every Sunday night & Monday night

When we arrived back at my ex's, she was waiting. The plan was for me and my daughter to spend 5 minutes to say our goodbyes.
My ex simply pushed past my mother and moved towards the car. I started to drive away, however my ex opened the door and lunged towards and grabbed my daughter from the back seat. The poor soul was traumatised.

This isn't good. In all honesty I don't think attempting to drive away was the best idea.

First off, thank you for the advice so far,

1 quick question with regards to the above in bold.
My ex had requested to my mother via text that we drop my daughter off at 2.30 pm
We arrived at my ex's at 2.09pm
Now, if I was simply intending to take my daughter for an ice lolly, have a quick chat and drop her off at the agreed time of 2.30pm - surely in the event of a non molestation order being applied, I could appeal on the basis that I still had time left?? (my mum still has the text)
My ex partner opening a car door and lunging in towards my daughter is clearly psychotic behaviour???

What if the situation was that I collected my daughter on a contact day, my partner changed her mind a split second later and done the same thing???

Surely agreed time is agreed time - nothing less??

To be honest whether you were early, on time or late is completely irrelevant. The fact is it happened and it shouldn't have.

A half decent solicitor/barrister acting for your ex could make it sound much worse than it actually was. All they have to say is that you arrived earlier than expected and brought your mother, who subsequently tried to prevent your ex from taking your daughter from the car, so she had no choice other than to brush her aside and then you attempted to drive off with your child. Can she prove it? No. It's her word against yours. Is it enough to get a non-molestation order? Maybe. Especially if she cites the incident when you were trying to get into the house earlier in the year. If you've sent her any strongly worded text messages or emails, you can bet they'll turn up in front of the court too!

Her solicitor may then try and make you sound controlling & unreasonable. They'll cite your objection to the holiday as an example of controlling behaviour. Then your ex will say she's scared of you and doesn't want her daughter to be around you unsupervised.

A non-molestation/restraining order isn't a punishment or a conviction. It's designed to be a protection order of sorts and is supposed to offer the person applying for it a level of reassurance and security. Your ex would only have to satisfy a court that she feels it's needed. If you then broke the order you could be looking at a criminal conviction. Essentially it puts you at a huge disadvantage when it comes to negotiating contact.

It sounds to me that your solicitor understands how your ex can spin this in court and is actually looking out for your best interests.

When you're around your ex, her family or her solicitor you need to be a model of restraint. Calm and reasonable all the way. When you get home you can vent as much as you want, but for now, when it comes to dealing with your ex, you've got to be a Zen master.

I don't think we should focus too much on a potential non-molestation order, but you really need to be aware that any further incidents like those described may well lead to a situation were your ex applies for one.

Your ex seems willing to give mediation a chance, so your focus should be on how to negotiate better contact arrangments. It's the last chance you have of resolving this between yourselves.

It may well be that mediation doesn't work, but I fear that if this goes to court matters will become more inflamed than they already are.

Received letter from my ex's lawyer making all sorts of additional accusations im relation to before the holiday.
The letter is very sketchy with regards to exisiting contact. Just says my partner will discuss this with me......

Spoke to mediation team who say despite trying to contact my ex on several occassions, she has not responded.

I am unhappy with my lawyer at the moment as I have been looking through my e-mails over the last few months.
One the day I found out about the holiday, I requested that she contact my ex's lawyer to advise of my PR and it would only be corteous to ask my permission.
She never done this as it turns out.

I have asked to respond to the letter I received today refuting the accusations made but she refused simply stating " leave it till mediation"
Mediation that my ex does not seem to be keen to attend???!!??

I think FM's advice above is excellent, anything you do that can be construed as a negative will turn up in court against you. It also does sound as though your lawyer is on the ball, if he had written to your ex's lawyer as you requested, would it have actually achived anything, apart from possibly being seen that you were trying to be obstructive? You have to think about how all of this looks when it gets to court if mediation doesn't work, and you don't want to hand it on a plate to your ex.

Half of what she has said about me is lies.
I do though have proof of parent alienation.

As things currently stand, my ex has stated that contact will continue on the agreed days but overnight contact is a no.
Now given that overnight contact was ALWAYS an issue long before any hoilday was ever booked, will it not look strange that the only response to my alleged behaviour was by stopping the one thing she ALWAYS had an issue with??? (That I can prove with text messages threatening me with the police if I didnt take my daughter back when it was MY night for overnight contact on previous occassions)

Hi e-dad,

I don't doubt for a minute that the mother is exaggerating her version of events, but you really need to learn how to better protect yourself. The only effective form of protection you have available to you is non-confrontation. Stop rising to the bait or you'll find the situation only gets worse.

I agree that restricting overnight contact is unreasonable and if mediation doesn't work you have every right to apply to the courts for a contact order. Personally I think it's odd that she allows unsupervised contact, but refuses overnights. If she seriously thought that you posed any kind of risk, I'm pretty certain that she wouldn't let you have any contact with your daughter.

Mediation is a big opportunity for you, as it allows you to speak in front of a third party. As far as you're concerned you want to try and leave the animosity in the past and look to what's best for your daughter. This means that she should enjoy a relationship with you and your family. If your ex has a different point of view, without a legitimate reason for her argument, then I'm pretty sure most people would think she was being unreasonable.

A court is likely to order that contact happens at least every other weekend with two overnights. If she wants to avoid court she really needs to be offering you the same as an absolute minimum, or an alternative acceptable compromise.

Go into mediation with the view that you only want what's reasonable and if she isn't prepared to give you the bare minimum then you'll have no choice other than to get a contact order. Don't get angry about it or create a scene, just be calm and reasonable.

Good luck!

Hi e-dad,

A court is likely to order that contact happens at least every other weekend with two overnights. If she wants to avoid court she really needs to be offering you the same as an absolute minimum, or an alternative acceptable compromise.

Thats slightly comforting to read the above. There does not seem to be a whole lot of positive success stories in respect of fathers getting a good outcome for contact.

I have a few questions regarding going forward to mediatio and hope someone can help:

1: If we are able to agree contact, is there anything at all stopping my ex from immediately disregarding the agreement thereafter??

2: I know the mediators position is to remain un-bias. Are they able to contribute in respect of factual evidence such as a fathers actual parental responsibility etc?

3: If mediation does not work, how long could it take then to arrange a court date?

4: What grounds would my ex then have for enforcing supervised contact and how would this be viewed in court??

I know in my heart of hearts mediation will not work. I know my ex is hellbent on destroying me and my relationship with my daughter.
Only today, my daughter informed me that "mummy will be picking me up from school on mondays"
I always picked my daughter up from nursery on a Monday as that was an agreed day.

As it stands here on in, I will have my daughter for approx 8 hours a week. No where near enough and my ex has aparently decided that is as good as Im going to get (if not, worse)
Both my parents and sister adore my daughter. This will impact on time they spend with her as well.

Hi e-dad,

It's pretty standard for courts to award alternate weekends (your daughter would be stop with you overnight on Fri & Sat, or you could go for Fri, Sat & Sun) and a share of school holidays. Unless there's a welfare concern.

In answer to your other questions:

1). At this stage nothing, as it's a leap of faith. If she breaks the agreement go straight to court and explain that mediation hasn't worked. If the court orders you both back into mediation, you should agree to it and insist that any further agreement goes back to court to be enshrined into an enforceable court order.

2). Mediatiators are supposed to be unbiased. Outline what parental responsibility is and explain that these are your rights as defined by law and any attempts to deny you these rights is unreasonable.

3) From point of application to first hearing is usually 6-8 weeks

4) Have you had contact with your child since the incident were you drove away and your ex grabbed her from the car? I can't see how your ex could justify asking for supervised contact given that she actually allows you to have unsupervised contact during the day. A court should see through it, unless she pulls something else out of the bag that you're not aware of...

During scheduled contact you should expect to be able to take your daughter anywhere in the UK and it's your decision as to who she spends time with. Anything less is unreasonable. When you get to speak to the mediator, explain that all you want is to excercise the rights given to you through your PR and that you want to have regular scheduled overnight contact with your daughter. If the mother is not prepared to give you this, then you're going to court to get a contact order.

Do not lose your cool or get into a slanging match with your ex. Be cool, be calm and keep an open mind.

Good luck!

Hi Filmmaker,

In answer to your question, I still see my daughter on all agreed days. Just no overnight stays unfortunately.

We are one week away from mediation so I can only hope.
One other thing that concerns me is the CSA dragging their heels for so long.
Due to the lies my ex told about my earnings previously, I had to submit a diary of when my daughter did actually stay previously and my wage slips. Because my ex disputed my evidence, she hasn't received a payment. I offered to pay through the CSA on an interim basis but they advised not to.
If my partner brings this up in mediation, could she use this as leverage or is mediation going to focus on my daughters well-being only?

I honestly can't see how she hopes to justify not allowing overnight contact.

If you keep clam and just say that you're only concerned about how to move things forward for the sake of your daughter, you should be ok.

Maintenence and contact would be seen as two seperate issues in court. However mediation is different to court and is supposedly an opportunity to resolve your issues, so, if maintenence payments are an issue, I imagine that she may bring it up as a point of discussion.

I guess you could say that the matter is being dealt with by the CSA and you're being governed by that outcome. I'm not sure what you're particular situation is, so I wouldn't be able to advise you on that. Plus I'm not an expert on the CSA, but it may be an idea to speak to someone from Child Maintenence Options for a strategy?

Good luck!

I haven't been through mediation but I cannot imagine that the mediator will try to get involved in matters that are best dealt with by the CSA.

Unbelievable!!!!

The mediation service called today to advise that next weeks session had to be rescheduled for 2 weeks later due to a mediator not being available.

I have tried to reschedule but my ex has advised the ONLY day she can make is a day I work.
She does not want to attend mediation - simple as that.

The CSA have resolved the maintenance issue and she is going to be getting the bumper payment of £200 a month to spend as she sees fit. She wont be wanting to grant overnight access in a hurry.

So, what would happen now??? Do I raise a court action only for the judge to force mediation??? That's obviously going to cost me and in the meantime, that will take 6-8 weeks........thereafter mediation reschedulaton takes another 6 weeks........
Is is possible the court would take into account her reluctance to attend mediation at that time and grant interim overnight contact?

We are going to be well into new year before any of this is sorted.
Getting really disheartened now.

Hi e-dad

Is there any way at all you can take the day off - it will certainly take the wind out of your ex's sails if you can suddenly make the mediation - but I'd also make the point when you go to court should the judge make another mediation order.

She appeared willing to attend the original appointment, but if she's becoming uncooperative perhaps, as ACTD has already suggested, you look to reschedule your work commitments and lock her in to another appointment?

Finally!!!

My partner has agreed to mediation on a date that is suitable for both of us.
That being said, I have been advised that this will be 'shuttle' mediation

Anyone aware of this and wether it actually works??

I have no direct experience of mediation - anyone else help here?

I suspect that it means that she won't be in the same room and the mediator will act as a go between, but I may be wrong. I experienced something similar in an employment dispute that went to arbitration some years back, but I'm unsure whether this is a technique used in family mediation.

Why don't you call the mediation service and ask them to outline what happens in this 'shuttle' scenario?

Well, first mediation appointment done.

My ex proposed that I have my daughter overnight once a month on a Saturday......even though she knows I work late on a Saturday!!

I asked the mediator to get an explanation from my ex why overnight contact had stopped. The response was that "overnight contact has stopped due to the incident before the holiday"
So pretty much a personal vendetta. Nothing more than the imposing of a punishment to gain more for reasons not in my daughters best interest.

Now given that my daughter is practically begging both of us to stay over at mine, Im considering by passing mediation and getting a child welfare officer involved.
It's mental abuse if the only reason she gives for refusing overnight contact is a personal grudge against myself.

I would suggest that you persist with mediation, but press you concerns. It will look better if it goes to court if you stuck with mediation and were reasonable with what you asked for (which you are).

I agree with ACTD. You need to press forward and attempt to address the issues.

Firstly explain that overnight stays were an issue long before the alleged incident, which is being used by the mother to justify her actions - although she was being controlling long before this happened. The incident the mother refers to took place nearly two months ago and she has allowed unsupervised contact to occur since then and clearly has no sustainable concerns about your ability to care for your daughter. You feel that the mother, rather than being motivated by welfare concerns, is denying overnight contact purely for financial gain and doesn't want to see her maintence payments reduced.

Perhaps you could say that you may be willing to accept one weekend per month for an interim period of two months (remember that it will take at least this long to get an initial court date), but you feel that it's only reasonable to expect this to increase to every other weekend and expect this to happen sooner rather than later. You also want to discuss a reasonable provision for holidays and special dates (alternating christmas, birthdays etc).

Well, after the second mediation appointment......looks like it's going to court.

My ex admitted to the mediator that the reason she has stopped overnight contact was as a "punishment" for the incident before the holiday.

Get this though!!!! My ex told the mediator I could have my daughter overnight for 1 night last week. Those were her final words before she departed the centre. The mediator (although trying to appear unbiased) was clearly frustrated.
I jumped at the chance and it was lovely to have my daughter sleep under my roof. Bath time, bed time stories, breakfast.....absolute magic!! We had a great time together.

Now I have heard that on that very night, my ex was "entertaining" a new fella.

Unbelievable!!!

Anyway, Im just waiting on my lawyer sending out forms for legal aid and then I guess, I'll just have to wait and see.
Im praying that something happens before Xmas!!

Now, help me out here guys.......If a judge was to hear what has happened with my ex refusing overnight contact as a "punishment" but allowed me to have my daughter overnight out of the blue as a one of - they'll be scratching their head surely???
The ex probably wont admit it's a punishment and will have some sort of elaborate lie in place nonetheless.

Hi e-dad,

Is your ex refusing to attend further mediation?

The issue with the mothers new relationship isn't going to be much of a factor with the court. Try not to concern yourself with it too much. You're both free to see whoever you want and you should prepare yourself for the very real possibility that the mother will introduce this man to your daughter at some point. It stings, but these are the things we need to deal with.

What you have here is an opportunity to build on this development. If the mother intends to continue in this relationship, it may well mean that it creates an opportunity for you have further overnight contact.

If the mother is refusing further mediation then you have no choice other than to apply to the court for a contact order. It takes between 6-8 weeks from the point of application to get a hearing. If you are applying for legal aid there may well be a further wait of 6-8 weeks before it is confirmed, which means that you may not see the inside of a courtroom before the of January '13.

You could have a think about self representation. Yoji wrote a fanatastic step-by-step guide for representing yourself in court and it's located at the top of the Legal Eagle forum. If you don't qualify for legal aid, you'll be able to get free legal advice from the Coram Children's Legal Centre - although they can't represent you in court.

Keep cool. It sounds like your ex is building a pattern of uncooperative behaviour and other people are begining to see this. This is what I was trying to get across in my earlier posts; if you stop reacting to her antagonising behaviour, all that is left is her antagonising behaviour and this is what people will see. It strengthens your case, whilst reacting to her will only weaken your position.

Keep pushing the mediation. If she walks away, it's a black mark in her ledger and not yours.

FM '70

Well, this is going nowhere fast!!

My lawyer has advised that I would only be granted residential contact at weekends as not to disrupt my daughters school.
Fair enough.

My lawyer advised against filing the court papers at the moment and advised trying for residential contact every second weekend.
The response was that my request was excessive and that my ex has doubts on my ability to look after my daughter!!
This was down to the fact that since July, I have had my daughter overnight on 2 occasions only.
On both of those occasions, we have stayed overnight at my parents house. They live 70 miles away and don't get to see my daughter that often.
On both of these occasions, my daughter has asked if it's ok to stay over at their house. They live near the beach and my daughter loves it when we fly her kite etc there.
Surely I wont be challenged in court for this???

My mother and father are a hugely positive influence in my daughters life.
Does it matter where my daughter sleeps when I do have residential contact as long as she is safe and secure?

It's not as if I was staying overnight at my parents all the time when I did have residential contact at the start of the year.

e-Dad

As Loving Dad says....Put the money in to a separate bank acount, the banks can give the account a name, call it your daughters maintenance if you can.....whatever you do...do not stop paying in or take any money out from that account....that way you will have the money sat there for when/if your ex decides she wants your money....reason i say this is if she decides in a few months or years time that she does want your money the first thing she'll use with the CSA is that you've not paid anything....they'll calculate to a date she says or can prove to and then you'll be sent a demand for several thousand pounds in what they will call Arrears! if you've the money saved at least you can then pay the arrears.

oh and do not under-estimate the depths the ex will go to to prevent you from seeing your child! We fathers get advised on what we can do to keep contact, to follow the legal route and not lie or deceive.....
Unfortunately most mothers seem to get advised how best to hurt the father more, how best to get more benfits by reducing contact, how best to make life as difficult as possible for the father.

Anyway good luck and don't give up.