[Solved] How do i remove my PR from my 9mth son, - SS Hell

This is the letter i sent to ss about a week and i have not had a reply.
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Re: Case conference/Protection Plan for xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxx

I am asking you in writing for a full copy of the full protection plan that was decided for my son on xxxxxxxxxxxx This is also a request for a full copy of the minutes from the conference.

As you have told me I cannot see my son other than through social care I feel this situation will not get resolved as I will not engage with you, I am not a danger to my son and I have nothing to answer to with you. I have had my son many times unsupervised this year and I have always returned him well and on time. If you have decided I cannot see my son again then so be it because I will not drag my son through the never ending family court system for contact.

I have heard a rumour saying “lee has got to see his kid in a contact centre with [censored] offenders lol” This is very offensive to me and I suspect it has been said to draw me into a new conflict that will result in xxxxxxxx getting more attention however I will not be drawn into more arguments with xxxxxxx over this or anything else in the future. I have had enough of xxxxxxxxx attention seeking and emotional games and I will not respond to it as this will only harm xxxxxxxxx.

I have had enough of this whole situation now and I would be happy to meet with you to discuss the possibility of the removal of my parental responsibility however this is all I’m willing to discuss with you and I would only attend if the meeting is recorded and a senior social worker was present.

Yours Sincerely.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So sorry to hear this has been so tough on you. No matter how hard it has been I would urge you to reconsider breaking ties with your son. If you & your ex cannot go through the courts & ss to agree on access you could think of doing things that could keep some kind of contact up. It might be good to have a break from it for a while & rethink things in a few weeks.

If your ex ever texts you or emails you with messages that prove any innocence on your part I would strongly suggest keeping these for proof.

Things you could do in the mean time while you cannot see your son:
-Write him birthday cards to let him know you're thinking of him, if you think she may not pass them on hang on to a copy yourself to show him when he's older
-Create an email address for him & write emails to him to give him when he's older

Hi there,

This is such a tragic situation and I have to agree with Springchicken and Basszebra you need to take some time out... Its not that we dont think you know your own mind, but you've been under a huge amount of stress and you're emotions have been stretched to breaking point, which makes this absolutely the wrong time to be making life changing decisions....Because turning your back on your child for good is life changing...

I have had a a look at the question of removing PR and to be honest its not something that is ever done, except in adoption cases. Most fathers that dont want to play any part in their childs life, usually just walk away. I suppose you could talk to a solicitor, or the Citizens Advice Bureau as they do have a legal department.

However I urge you to reconsider, at least until you've had a chance to recharge your batteries and let your anger subside. You say this is best for your son and I have to disagree with you there. I have two grown up children who grew up without their father and so I speak from experience...I know they would disagree with that statement too.

This woman, your ex, has a lot to answer for... and if the Social Services got it right as often as they get it wrong, they would be an excellent service!! Please dont let their failings, or your scheming, manipulative ex succeed in pushing you away. Your little boy needs you to fight for him, and if that is what you decide to do, we will advise and support you all the way. No one is saying it will be easy, and you will reach many "almost at breaking point moments", but it will be so worth it in the end.

Whatever you decide, we do not judge, and we will be here to support you in whichever direction you decide to go.

Thanks, ye this whole episode has made me ill and pushed to the point of despair!

tell me about it, Ive never been in hospital until last month when i was with an abscess the size of an orange on my leg the doctor told me it was due to severe stress and wanted to put me on anti depressants, i will never go down that road, im 40 and this is my only child, its broken me believe me i haven't given in without a fight, but the game is over and i want it to stop now.

Hi Lee,

I've read through this post and I can fully understand where you are coming from, I'm currently involved in the court process to gain contact with my son and I regularly get moments of blind panic where I question whether or not what I am doing is the right thing. It scares me so very much to think that I've had to resort to this, but deep down I really do know that if I don't I will regret it.

The other comments on here are very valid, it's well worth taking some time out to mentally 'regroup' and consider your position, this process is a long one and nobody would mind if you were to wait a while, to ensure you are settled and comfortable with your decision.

One point I would like to make is this, whilst giving up your PR rights may seem like a means of walking away from the process, the system is such that contact and maintenance are not legally connected, and so whilst giving up PR may be seen as the answer, it would not stop your ex hounding you through the CSA, and you would be legally bound to oblige. Consequently, you could end up finding yourself in the position of having no right of decision over your son's welfare and future, whilst having to continue to fund your ex through maintenance payments.

I've considered walking away a couple of times during my journey, and have concluded that in reality it's not actually possible, unless of course the mother is happy to let you do so. I think a lot of the guys on here, are here because they are in that sort of predicament, and would rather fight as best they can for what is right for their children, than whatever the alternative may be.

It's only my opinion for what it is worth, but I would urge you to at least take the time to make sure you have covered all your angles, and have reached a fully informed decision. What that decision is, is personal to you and no one has the right to judge you on it.

All the best Lee.

I wish all the best and luckily your only 25 and i think you will do well, however im 40 and when you get my age you just want to enjoy the life youve got left in peace lol. good luck and think positive!

i do understand where your coming from, its just really sad. when your son becomes a man im sure he'll discover the truth about what she made his father go through, and he'll never forgive her for that. shes got him now but she'll lose him later!!
i haven't seen my son since he was 1 and half months old hes 8 months now, im 25 and the way i see it is nothing else matters to me, i dont care where i have to move to, to be near him and at the moment that looks like scotland! but il get a job in mc donald and live in my van until i can afford a place and get a better job. because if i give up then that fking c has won and she'll be happy while i live my life full of regrets and misery and theres no way in [censored] im letting that happen i owe it to my boy to never stop fighting to be his daddy again no matter what the b*tch or the courts throw at me, dont get me wrong im not preaching what you should and shouldn't do, you know whats best and you could end up giving yourself a heart attack or something, i know how stressfull dealing with this sh*t is. maybe a little holiday to amsterdam would do you good, i was sooo relaxed when i went there and the women, oh my god, iv only seen women like that on the internet!
taking a break from the s*it storm would hopefully make you feel alot better about everthing, and after if you feel like taking up the fight again, good show no mercy. if not so be it you tried your very best and your only human we can only take so much.
but me im running on pure rage! i was very depressed and then i found this site and some wise words from nannyjane picked me back up, and now i just want battle to commence.
and we're all here for you to give you support and advice whenever you need it, stay with us and stay strong we'll help you through whatever you decide to do.
and remember amsterdam i HIGHLY recommend it. manparidise!

Ive been looking this matter up and i dont think i will able to get it removed unless i go for mental health grounds on my self. i think i will draw her into what she thinks will be a contact order family hearing and then ask the judge for a no contact order lol and just let her stalk away with facebook msg etc i keep all the evidence and then just keep getting injunctions.

Hi Leelondon
at least you are getting your sence of humour back.
My brother is older then you and became a Dad at 50 then he split and she did the , you cant see the kids, he had waited years to become a Dad and ended up with 3 in a few years. He lost his home and job and kids, he was so unhappy and threatened to kill himself. He gave up the fight and didnt see his kids for 18 months . He sorted himself out then he took her to court and the Judge asked why have you waited this long. He was given contact a few hours a week but had to be supervised with a caff cass officer as the mother was still saying my brother was a danger and she was worried, he went along with all of it but then the mother got fed up because she had to drop the kids of and hang around town to pick them up. She then said he can pick them up. He is now with a lovely lady and has his kids every two weeks, hes now 58. Take a break Lee but dont give up, its what she wants, your child cant fight to see you, but you can fight for him.

Hi Lee

It sounds hellish what you have been going through. However that said, you are highly unlikely to be able to get your PR removed, unless some other bloke adopts your son.

Even with or without PR you will still be liable for maintenance via the CSA, and cannot be forced to have contact with the child against your wishes, so there is no actual difference in having or not having PR since you are choosing to opt out of your sons life.

I think the only thing you need to consider is if the annoyance of "Playing" along with SS is worth the reward of a relationship with your son. Your ex is being difficult because she wants you not to have one, jump through the systems hoops and then shes got nothing left to beat you with.

Tony

Thanks, its not really her causing the drama and i understand her ways as she has the a.d.d. it ss giving me [censored]. im not going to comply with them ever, and the thing is they know what a drama she causes between us so they have told her she must give them the power to arrange and be in charge of my contact or they will take him off her, i know they cant do that but shes believes them or she loves the attention of going along with them. i suppose i could just disappear for a year or two and the baby is only 9 months now so ive time and his age in my favor, do you think ss will still be around then? she will always let me see him its just the attention she can get from doing it even now she doesn't realize what a dangerous game she has played with ss and i see the excitement in her face when she says "just go contact center" she would keep that going on for years as it all about the attention from going there from friends family me and the staff etc,

...I think thats a totally good idea...I dont think they'll be on the case once you have "disappeared".

As I said before I think you need some time out, the length of time is up to you and how you feel. If 9 months is what it takes, then thats what it takes and you're right, your child is still young enough not to be affected by it.

If you were to apply for a Contact Order through the court, then the SS wouldn't be able to continue with these threats to your ex as its not acceptable without strong evidence to back it up. It might be a good way to call their bluff... Think about it!! Theres tons of advice on here about applying for Contact, have a look at the stickys at the top of the Legal Eagle section. A guide to Representing yourself in Court and Contact Order C100 Guide both with lots of really useful information.

im never gonna go through court like i say she wont stop contact. its just bull**** that im gonna miss all there early years and the walking, talking etc but like you say if there is no reports or police incidents for the next 1-2 years what can they do?

Itll depend on your ex as to what happens with SS really.

If right now you refuse to engage with SS, then there will be a note on the file, that you refused to engage with the DV programme, and that you are no longer having contact so there is no longer a risk. They might continue working with your ex for a while, but eventually if she is a good mum in all other respects and the "problem" was you, then the case will be closed.

Job done.

So then say in 2 years time you pop back along and ask your ex for contact. If you ex says yes and you come to a mutually agreeable contact then thats fine and everyone is happy - UNLESS - Social services get wind of it because someone reports you, then you will be back to the risk assessments, and its possible that SS will remove the child if they feel you are enough of a danger and mum isnt putting appropriate safe guarding measures in place.

Or in 2 years time you could come along for contact, and ex says get lost, you end up having to take her to court for access (or walk away again) and then the SS involvement will be flagged up when the court application goes in, and then sometimes SS are asked for reports rather than CAFCASS due to their prior involvment. Regardless of whether CAFCASS or SS are involved it will go against you that you have not engaged with the services now, and will allow your ex if she so wishes to drag it out for a while causing all sorts of drama. Your son will be older and more affected by it all.

....So is it the SSs way or the highway then tonyl? Wouldnt the court process allow leelondon a platform to air his grievances, and if the court threw out the DV case, wouldn't that go in Leelondons favour, as in innocent until proven guilty! Surely the SS cant make decisions and put children on protection plans unless based on fact and evidence.

My son had SS and CAFCASS involved in his court case, the SS because of prior involvement with my grandson and CAFCASS as per court procedure.

I didnt say it was SS way or the highway. I said depending on how his ex acts, then his choice not to co-operate now could be used against him.

SS usually remove children as a last resort, so their intention would be (as they are already doing) to work with the family. They must already have something, as SS dont have the resources to just interfere in families for no reason, they are stretched both time wise and finances wise, so I assume they have already done an assessment and decided there is a risk in this family. If the family refuses to work with them they arent just going to go oh well no danger, off we go. They then decide whether to escalate from supporting the children to remain in the family to removing the children. They might they might not, I have no idea what decisions SS will take or what info they have on their files or what danger they think Lee is.

If he wont engage with SS, is he going to engage with CAFCASS? If hes disappeared for 9 months and then comes back they are likely to do supported contact at a contact centre - will he do that? They are going to want to progress it slowly - its going to require his commitment to engage.

Lee is hoping that if he walks away for a while SS will drop all concerns and then his ex will allow him to have contact. He knows her best, she might well do that, but if she loves the drama, whats to say that when he contacts her she wont put it all up again for the additional drama?

I think he would be best going to court now, calling SS bluff, doing the contact centre for a while, engaging with the DV programme and getting contact for his son.

However, that isnt somthing Lee feels he can so, thats fine thats Lees decision, but I think just blindly assuming he can wander off for a period of months, years and then just re-appear and there be no raising of these issues now is a bit of a simplistic view.

I wasn't being funny with you Tonyl and if I came across in that way then I apologise.

I was just trying to encourage Lee to take a break and recharge, and meant that the SS wont pursue him if he walks away for a while.

The point I was trying to make after that was to go back to court and put the SS to the test there...I think I used the term "call their bluff" which you picked up on. I dont think I said that he could walk back in with none of the issues being raised again...

I know Lee has had enough at the moment, but I am hoping that he may feel differently after a break from it all, but as you point out that is for him to decide...and we will support him in whatever he decides to do.

Lee if I havent expressed myself correctly, or I have given you the wrong information, then I apologise. I think this is a highly emotive subject....bottom line I just want to help! 🙂

well said Basszebra

Thanks for your input everyone but it is really the ss way or the high way, (as one of you said) ss want me to go to court for access as they know that will start a cafcass report which in turn will get them involved as they will check with ss, they know they have got no grounds to take me to court but they sure will **** me up through and with cafcass at a family court, so i gotta walk or comply with supervised contact center and 6 month dv coarse and what ever else they ask for, i will never do that so walk it is! i might try again in a few years and see what happens or will prob walk for good, the good thing right now is im coping better about not seeing my gorgeous son and time will heal more i hope, Ive given all my pics and file of letters to friend to look after, i will keep the post updated to let you know any updates. ps. the ex is no better and still ill.
thanks all

straight from the heart - I agree entirely. Giving up is the worst thing you can ever do to a child or yourself.

After having a short break from this and talking to people/reading your posts and legal advice i decided to meet the new social worker last Tuesday after he wrote asking to me and stating: CONTACT SUPERVISED UNTIL RISK ASSESSMENT. So i went on Tuesday and as far as i was concerned i was attending for a risk assessment, i spent an hour and a half there took a friend and recorded the meeting i spoke to him a few times on Wednesday and Thursday but he would not confirm or deny that our meeting was a risk assessment i then phoned my ex Friday and said as far as im concerned ive been assessed and i would like my son this sunday (today) she said ok then the social worker then phoned me and said dont pick him up till ive home visited you ex got call as well and said i use to live there and she has no concerns about the property he the said to her will your dad take the baby to see him (me) once every sunday for 2 hours and stay there he and she and her dad aid no we are happy with unsupervised contact, so ive had him 6 hours today and took him out, but i got a bad feeling about letting ss round tomo! they are trying to make me do the dv course but if i do im admitting to violence i didnt do and could then face contact centre for years or ever.

ex is going along with me now as in her eyes ive been assessed but are we in trouble here when ss call her they say supervised only, but when they call me they say dont see him till weve drawn up new contract,

If i do dv course i have to admit something i am not, and you can never have unsupervised while labeled as dv or doing a course, plus when you start course your assessed as your a risk or you wouldn't be here, good thing is ex has had enough now and realizes our son need his dad for many reasons but ss really hate me now as ive stood up to them i feel they really are out to finish me. shall i cancel hove visit and call their bluff as ive been doing, bearing in mind ive had a 1 1/2 hour meeting and nothing was said about a home visit then he calls my mobile non stop since i meet him last tuesday, maybe get them to state in writing about the home visit? or am i being paranoid?

Thanks there is no way i would do the dv course a part or it even deals with sexual abuse to your children [censored]!! I went off my head with him on the phone after he said check out the course on line and then i will refer you, He really has upset me even putting my name to s*** like that i really dont fancy letting this guy in tomo and if i do im not sure he will walk out lol (joking)

the other thing that is making me suspicious is my ex is being to nice all of a sudden

Hi Lee 🙂

I am so happy you've has a rethink 8) He's a beautiful baby!

Ok, this is my opinion...I would allow him entry but explain to him that as far as you're concerned its just a formality, because you have sorted things out with the mother and you are both ready to move forward with unsupervised contact. Be calm and reasonable and apologise for being upset, but explain that it was borne out of frustration for being accused of behaviour that you are completely innocent of, namely DV. Explain to him that your ex's behaviour and attitude towards you is now back to normal and has settled down, and that you can only put her emotional state of mind down to the changes that happen during pregnancy and birth. You could say that you feel confident that you are both ready to put all of the unpleasantness behind you and get on with being the best parents that you can be. Tell him you appreciate that he has a job to do and thank him for all his hard work. Believe me flattery gets you everywhere! 😉

I would also ask to meet with the ex to talk things through. Again start by thanking her for giving you such a beautiful son and for allowing you to move forward. Reassure her that he will always come first and you will always be there for them both and hope that you can both work together to give him the very best in life.. Dont forget she is the mum and that means she's going to be a permanent fixture...if you can make friends and get on, it will make everything so much easier.

Maybe give her a call before the SS visit and talk it through, as you seem to think she just wants to get on with things now, she might back up what you're saying. It's their job to make sure that a child is safe and being cared for... so try not to take it all personally. I dont think they can do anything about taking it forward if both parties involved dont want to. Your son isnt at risk and is in a safe and loving environment, the mother doesnt want to take it further, so I think their powers at this point are quite limited.

Good luck with everything Lee and keep us posted! 🙂

ex seems a different person we talked many times this week, so i will post what ss say during the visit tomo and what the contract contains.

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i think my access today was a one off im basically s****** just keep cards and write letters to your boy as im doing he will get them one day as mine will

Awww Daddys boy, he's absolutely gorgeous! Got tears in my eyes here 8)

Try not to think like that Lee, be positive!

QUICK UPDATE:

I spoke to the social worker who was going to do a home visit this eve and told him a legal rep would be present he said he didnt want that and it made him feel uncomfortable! i told its my right to have one here if i wish so he told be he wont be attending this eve. . . . .

Social services are now requesting that we have a home visit/meeting and home risk assessment all in one at mine this week with my ex, the baby and her parents attending.

...I think telling him your legal representative would be in attendance was a master stroke! They're now back peddling!

I also think that this meeting they've arranged at your place, and are calling a risk assessment, is a way of them being able to walk away without as much egg on their face! As i said before, I dont think they've got much control over the situation, as you're all singing from the same hymn sheet now!

Their noses are most likely well out of joint, but wether they have a bad opinion of you or not, they have to behave professionally at all times. Dont forget that their resources are spread really thinly these days, even when there is obvious neglect they are notorious for doing the very least that they have to....theres lots of members here that will agree with that, its been mine and my sons experience too.

i will decline the planed meeting at mine this week, and state if they have any concerns or wish to visit me to put it in writing.

At first my ex said if i cancel the meeting she will stop contact but now shes is saying she wont.

I really have had enough of this and want to stick to my original plan of not having contact and having my pr removed,

update:

Today ex said ss have said they advise against unsupervised contact and want her to sign an agreement about contact basically letting them take over and arrange/decide what contact should take place. She said shes got to sign.

SS still refusing to do home visit to me if i have legal rep here, but nothing in writing

I know that but by going along with them and playing their game, one minute she is and then shes not shes getting the one thing she desires the most. . . ATTENTION!

Lee,

This is a difficult one because on one hand I do think you should jump through all the hoops required to gain access to your son, but on the other hand I can also understand that if your ex is doing this sort of thing for the attention it is never going to go away, and can become very draining to live with.

With regards to SS saying she has to sign this is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. The only difficulty is they may be telling her things like
"if she doesnt agree to supervised contact only then she is putting her child at risk, and then they might have to investigate that" Is your ex going to be willing to stand up against SS if they threaten to take action against her?

Why and how do SS feel so strongly that you are a risk to your son that they are going to these lengths to make supervised contact happen?
How did SS get involved in the first place?

If you have got a SS person who is strongly against you, hes not going to just go away, and it can be really difficult to deal with. Your ex cant just choose to uninvolve SS now they are involved unfortunately and if you add to that she is an attention lover you might well have a real problem that could be ongoing for a substantial period of time!

i agree, maybe its time to go to solicitor and get a no contact and apply for pr to be removed that was my original plan and post but after members reply's and support Ive been trying to sort it but as you say, there is no real end to this drama and i cant live like this forever.

no solic wont act as there is nothing at court. she wants me to comply with all this bs cos by doing so she is center of attention as usual and she has control of me

Hi Lee,

Its difficult. And the added difficulty is that if you go to court, which is a possible option, SS might well do the reports instead of CAFCASS. However the positives of court action is the SS wouldnt be "in charge of contact" which appears to be what they want, the courts would.

Additonally whilst it is likely you would start with supervised contact, which is what SS want anyway, it is much more likely that it would progress quickly onto unsupervised, and onto decent contact. I think leaving it in the hands of SS / your ex means you will be messing about with this for much longer.

On a positive note, i have known of several cases, where DV has been alleged, but no back up police reports, where contact has gone supervised contact in contact centre - 3 months
supported contact in contact centre - 3 months

During this time the chaps were chomping at the bit, but once supported contact had all gone smoothly and the DV programme & parenting programmes had been done contact very very quickly moved on to full day contact. In a couple of cases, weekly overnights were taking place 4 months after supported contact had finished. Although admitedly in the one i was involved with a newborn, overnights were deemed inapproriate until the child was 2 - but the father was having 1 full day every weekend, and 3 half days/evenings.

Merry xmas all!

Update. . . .

There was a meeting with my ex and ss 2 weeks ago and ss are doing everything they can to make her use a contact center for my contact with my son which is something i will never do. there is a meeting in January and they have said if she doesn't use contact center they will start legal proceedings. they wont make it clear if its me they are gonna take to court or if they mean care proceeding for my son, im seeing him tomorrow for 5 hours unsupervised at mine so gonna make the most of it lol.