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Hi all,
Please see below for an email exchange between myself and expartner.
Id appreciate it if you would provide a subjective review and let me know if I am being unreasonable or if she is.
She has cited that I have been abusive at handover, I took pictures of her being present at handover as she said shwe wouldnt and that her stepfather would perfrom handover, and changed the location to Tesco carpark which is now in the court order and is using it as a means to deprive our children of more time with me.
I think that I need to ask the solicitor to write hers a letter but monies are getting low and I have spent over 15K so far so am reluctant and wonder how I should handle this latest incident.
Please read the rest of the post from the bottom up.
I appreciate any advice.
Regards,
Dave
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I am unable to get the before 1600 without rushing the children. I will be there at 1600 hrs.
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 Sep 2013, at 20:34, "Me" wrote:
Dear expartner,
I communicate only in response to your mail.
I will meet our children at the security station however I would also like that our children have they’re bicycles with them on Friday as I plan for us to go out over the weekend with them hence that I brought this up.
Only the location of the handover has changed and as previously mentioned XXX Tesco is quicker to get to than your address, you will have been at your address with child2 for more than an hour before having to set off to collect child1 so I am unable to see what would cause you or our children to be rushed. If I misunderstand then please explain.
This may be seen as denying further contact between our children and I.
I request that you do not deprive our children of time with they’re Dad which you know that they enjoy and make them available at 1530 as previously agreed.
Regards,
Me
From: expartner
Sent: 10 September 2013 19:58
To: Me
Subject: Re: Handover
The handover arrangements have changed because I feel that your behaviour is unacceptable at my home so I would like someone else to be there. Therefore the security station will be fine. They can go in a shop without buying anything!
I will be there at 1600 hrs Dave. I will not rush our children around to be there half an hour before hand.
If bikes are required to hand over, we will look at it when it happens. Anything else can be carried.
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 Sep 2013, at 19:18, "me"> wrote:
Dear expartner,
I communicate only in response to your mail.
You will need to have child2 ready and take her with you to collect child1. There is no reason why this cannot be possible as she finishes nursery at 1300 on a Wednesday and 1200 on a Friday.
There is no need for the previously agreed time of 1530 to change.
If there is no space in the set down/collect area then use a disabled bay and I will find you.
If you stay in your vehicle all you have to do is open the boot from the inside and I open the doors and let our children out. I do not suggest that our children are let out in the car park on they’re own.
Let me know where at Tesco you wish to meet tomorrow at 1530.
Regards,
David
From: expartner
Sent: 10 September 2013 18:39
To: me
Subject: Re: Handover
I say at 1600 because I get home at 1525 when I get child1. 1600 hrs allows enough time to get home, get child2 and get to tesco, without having to rush around. We are unable get that any quicker.
I shall go to drop the girls off at 1600, unless you tell me the night before.
There isn't always room at the set down area. Where do we go when there isn't space? I also do not feel comfortable about letting them out without myself going with them. It isn't safe. I feel that trying the security station is ok.
expartner
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 Sep 2013, at 18:00, "me"> wrote:
Dear expartner,
I communicate only in response to your mail.
Only the handover location has changed and XXX Tesco takes less time to get to than your address, from child’s school, so I see no reason to change our previously agreed handover time of 1530.
There is also no need to confirm the day prior as I have not done so before and there has never been a problem, I always arrive promptly.
In the unlikely even I am unable to be there for 1530, which would be the exception, I will let you know with as much notice as is possible.
The court order states handover in the car park and I suggest that handover in front of the security desk may present a few problems such as distressing our children as they may wish to go into Tesco and expect to be bought something and what about the logistics of handing over large items such as bicycles?
Would it not be less distressing to our children and more sensible logistically to choose an area, of your choice, in the car park and you stay in your vehicle?
Perhaps the set down/collect area?
Regards,
Me
From: expartner
Sent: 10 September 2013 16:37
To: me
Cc: ex partner solicitor
Subject: Handover
Me,
Please advise if you require the handover to be at 1600 or 1800 hrs tomorrow?
For future reference, I feel that you should let me know the day before. Otherwise, it will be 1800 hrs, to allow you to finish your working day.
I shall take the children into Tescos and we will be standing at the security man's station, just inside the door.
I will wait for you to leave until I go.
ExPartner
What time does it say in the order? If its 15.30 then she is in breach of the order.....I would stop dealing with her directly as it could be construed as harassment....whether it is or not! You could try writing directly to her solicitor yourself, at least ask your solicitor if this is permissible....if you talk to your solicitor about the rising costs, they might be ok with you doing some of the periphery work.
Or alternatively you could agree, with the proviso that you are adding thirty minutes at the end of contact to make up the difference, she could hardly argue with that!
Let her have her way over the location inside Tesco as a pick up point as its not worth arguing about....you want to illustrate that you are the reasonable one! Handing over in public also protects you from false accusations.
Here’s my two pence worth…..
Firstly, she is trying to dictate and regain control of the situation by telling you when to collect the kids. By doing this she is breaking a court order that specifies times for handovers.
I’m sure you can see from her side why she is wanting to move it to a public place away from her home…. i take it that handovers are quite tense for both of you and I’m guessing maybe things get said or interpreted between you two at these times.
I’m guessing her thoughts are that if she is in public place near the security people then you will have to be nice and not be confrontational possibly ……….
Please note I am only making assumptions here based on the arguments I’ve had with my ex when she would try to control my contact with my little one. And also at the time when she moved her new fella in to the house I was still paying the mortgage on!
Anyway the way I see this is………16:00 is only 30mins……do you really want to take her back to court for enforcement of the contact order?
What would happen should you do this? Contact could be stopped as soon as she finds out about it….she could then start saying you’re abusive when you get to the house that’s why she’s changed the place and she will make up any excuse to make it see as she is trying to protect herself from you.
If she was controlling and vindictive like my ex then she could possibly try the route of you’re harassing her and if she were able to convince the police that she’s scared of you coming to the house she could then apply to court for a Non-Molestation Order……you will then have to fight that and prove you’re not a threat to her at her house
Again I’m making assumptions based on my own very disturbing experiences with my very nasty piece of work ex!
So…..what options do you have?
You could try playing along with her demands for now and allow her the 30mins and see how it goes for the next few weeks/months, after all we’re talking about 30mins and if it makes handovers easier then that’s gotta be a good thing for the kids. If she starts to try and move the times again then reminder her how flexible and reasonable you have been despite a court order specifying earlier times being in place. Maybe at that point you could mention she could always go back to court to have the order amended but that you’d then be asking for more time with the kids not the ½ less she’s given you.
Or go for enforcement based on she has broken the court order…..depending on the case past and how the judge has seen the case history of your battle you could well get the order enforced….however you may get a judge who says the same as my opinion.
I can very easily say that I hate my ex for what she has put me through and I would absolutely be taking her back to court if I were being dictated to again this way (money funds permitting). However I’m only getting 5, 1/2hrs on a weekend day with my little one so far so 30mins to me is a massive amount of time I’m missing out on with my little boy.
Hi NJ,
Thanks for the quick repsone.
The court order states that our children are made availble after school and child 2 is available from 1315 and 1515. The times are not in the order which is frustrating as it gives her wriggle room in my opinion.
My issue here is that she is depriving our children of more time and that it is on top of the time she has already deprived child 2 of as she finishes school at 1300 on a Wednesday and 1200 on a Friday.
School starts at 0900 so I cant get extra time at the end of contact and she refused this when our children were on school holiday
I always respod with "I only commnicate in response to your mail" so hope that covers in terms of harasment.
Regards,
Dave
What a pity it doesn't specify time, have you tried suggesting that you pick them up from school directly....this would avoid any contact between you which would make sense if as she says you are abusive during direct contact. (I know you're not!)
Because of the lack of specified times, you are on a bit of a sticky wicket I'm afraid as there's no actual breach.
Thanks to you both for your repsonses....looks like I have to put up with it for the minute.
Regards,
Dave
You could spend more money going back to court to get the contact order amended to add the times in due to your ex's changing what you two had agreed upon.
By defining the times contact is to start and finish will then give you the comfort of knowing that should she break those times then you can apply and ask the court to enforce the order.
but you would need to be able to prove this.
Im back in court in November so will ask for times and that it is more specific as it seems licence for my ex to do what she likes.
The funny thing is today I arrived at Tesco at 1550 and stood by the door and she and our children turned up behind me with a trolley of shopping.
They had been there shopping since 1530.
On top of that she sends me a mail this evening for not making a scene in Tesco?? She copied her solicitor. In it she said that she got there at 1530 which is the time I asked for her to be there.
I feel like Im going barm.
Regards,
Dave
Its a game she's playing mate....she's trying to get under your skin....don't fall for it.....record it, make notes and keep it for submitting to court as evidence of why you need to have the times written in to the order.
when at court mention that in an ideal world you would love for there not to be a need for times to be put in to the order making it too ridgid and not flexible for you both but your ex's actions and games give you no confidence that she will stick to agreements.
me and my ex are never going to be amicable the way she has been this last 4yrs.......however flexibility is something i've always said i would strive for.......i turn up 10mins before...she turns up at the time specified and takes 10mins to leave.......i get back a few mins early or late depending on traffic and she complains! i live about 30mins drive from handover and so allways allow 40-45mins to get back so that she can't say i'm late and take time off me.....if she we're reasonable then 5-10mins would be acceptable if traffic was a problem!
Ha! Reasonable is not a word that's in these women's vocabulary!
I disagree - but it's prefixed with 'un' 😀
The letter a should be used before all words beginning with a consonant sound except silent h (eg an hour) and before words that begin with vowels that combined consonant and vowel sounds (university, unit) or am I completely knights move thinking here?
An should be used before all vowel sounds......but have I completely missed the jist of this?
WRT Dave....I feel he has nothing to lose writing to the judge and something may happen, fingers crossed.
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