DAD.info
2 homes, one priority: your child - Join the free Parenting After Separation course
Forum - Ask questions. Get answers.
2 homes, one priority: your child - Join the free Parenting After Separation course
Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:

Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.

Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.

If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help

Legal advice CLCC a...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Solved] Legal advice CLCC and opinions needed please


Posts: 10
 MAC
Registered
Topic starter
(@MAC)
Active Member
Joined: 12 years ago

This is quite long but I really need help and advice please.
My situation is:

My daughter (now 6) has been staying with me every other weekend since she was 1.
She lives with her mum, who had a partner of 4 years and they had 2 kids together in that time, until they broke up last June-ish.

Her lifestyle started to seem unsettled and at that time my daughter would go all quiet when I took her home and would not want to get out of the car and then cried all the way to the front door not wanting to let me go because she didn't want to go home. This happened every time I took her home in that first month.

When her mum had started to seem like she was going off the rails I mentioned about having shared custody because it was what my daughter wanted as she continued to get distressed like I said for a few weeks. But she wouldn't go to court so my partner drafted a shared parenting plan with the whole year planned out, special occasions, drop offs pick ups which took place on the monday so one of us just picked her up from school for that week then drop her off the next monday.

She agreed to sign in at the end of July but by then Social Services had already had to respond to claims of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, leaving children alone (which turned out to be with her boyfriend at the time) multiple men leaving the property and my daughter was coming to me every other week and confirming the different men, she met and named them all 5 men in 12 weeks, some were only on the scene for 2 days and they all had been at the house. She put these things all over facebook without realising I saw it all so I had like double confirmation.

Within a couple of weeks I was at the school for a social services meeting and they made a system called team around the child where they got all different services to come and suggest ways of helping because she admitted to binge drinking but said it was when the children weren't there although she admitted she was out drinking in a pub with her friend and her boyfriend at the time was with the kids? A couple of days later she "realised" he was a drug dealer and he stole her bank card and took money out of her account. I dread to think what my daughter saw during this time, as I can only imagine the unsettled nature of that time in my daughter's life let along what was then being said or done infront of her by this man and others etc This was the man she admitted to leaving my child with, admitted she didnt know him well enough to have left them with him and then she returned home drunk afterwards? I have this all on the initial assessment from social services,and notes from child in need the meeting.

During the meeting the school said they had concerns from the previous year into this new term that my daughter wasnt clean and tidy for school, often without a book bag, not able to focus, like 'away with the fairies' and her mum being 'cross' in the playground if she was scruffy at the end of the day (she had actually admitted to the school that she wasnt coping which is in the initial assessment)
It then upset me that it was only my daughter suffering like this, for the other two younger children in nursery they had no concerns whatsoever, clean and tidy and happy. What had my daughter suffered to find herself in this position at the start of a school day? During a really important time in her life.
They went on to say that she was presented well, able to focus, was prepared for school and performed alot better on the weeks she resided with me. And that was at the end of the first month of school!!

At the start of October, her mother again (after the social services meeting about leaving children with an inappropriate adult) left the children for the night (for a night out) with someone I feel was not suitable at all, had been and could have still been homeless and had been in prison for arson and I think he is strange around children myself.
My daughter told me that In the morning whilst her mum was 'fast asleep' in her bed, he made them breakfast then they 'couldnt find him' and the front door was open. They woke their mum woke up and her phone and money were missing. More to the point the front door only locks from the inside so my daughter and her sisters were left in a dangerous situation in more than one way.

I am chasing up a report of this from Social Services as they didnt even follow up with us what they wanted they intended to do about this situation and they had to interview my daughter at school about it.

At the end of october, ironically the first half term where she had to collect my daughter from me as agreed, she refused to collect her and made my partner drive her to an unreasonable place during half term, pay for parking with a young baby just because she was out shopping with her new boyfriend.

So as the agreement stated, if any of us broke the agreement we would go back to every other weekend whilst legal action was taken.

She didnt even realise that she had even broken the agreement as she is used to me bringing my daughter to her when its convenient for her! so I just said to her I didnt feel like I was getting much time with her after work etc and when I said she wouldnt have to pay me half of her child benefit allowance for the weeks I had her (because they advised me to come to an agreement with her because I was entitled to have it the weeks I had her but she would only give me half so I agreed) she agreed to end it.

So now, 8 months later she has had long enough to make the changes social services wanted her to, my daughter has adjusted back to being with her mum all the time and I have requested to meet with the school for their feedback and professional opinion on any changes in her performance.
And what is her mum planning? she is moving house (we are already live in separate areas) to where I live and move into a place with an extra bedroom and with her new boyfriend but pull my daughter out of the school she is in which is fantastic and has that support network created by social services for the effects of her mothers behaviour on the children so I dont want her to be taken out of that.
Also I suggested a school I'd prefer her to go to and she disregarded it and looked into another school without telling me until yesterday when she said "she's not even going to x ive applied for a place for her at y" without my opinion or consent which I am entitled to as I have parental responsibility. She was only looking at a 5 year old ofsted report but I looked into the statistics of the school and it has an above average rate of children with learning and behavioural problems and a significant number of identified behavioural problems which I feel is not worth pulling her out of an excellent school for. As where she is right now is a great school, she just needs my support again to make the most of it.

She tells me that she doesnt do her maths homework because her mum lost her book over 2 months ago and hasnt got another one, her mum fills in the reading book on the way to school, she hasnt had a follow up speech and language therapy appointment because she ignored the appointment letters and my daughter needs it to move forward in all areas of her development.

I am awaiting for feedback from her school on whether or not there has been a negative or positive change in her behaviour in the last 8 months and I'm guessing there hasn't been a positive change, even if there been I would therefore want her to stay at that school.

So, I want to file for a residence order so she can live with me, which we proved did work last time (and I had a newborn baby of 4 days old and lived in a one bedroom flat when the shared parenting plan started!) I am now in a two bedroom property with a baby in a routine and she would continue to attend the same school, my partner would take her to school again, I would continue working and seeing her after school and then if she had alternative weekends with her mum who would not have the stress of not coping with the demands of three childrens' schooling to worry about and therefore enjoy 'fun time' with her mum like she has for me now, but I truly believe I am the better parent to provide the stability and educational/developmental needs and as we had a shared parenting plan that worked before so it is not a complete change in circumstances as she was able to be with me for that long before, and the change of schools is surely far more disruptive than living with me for the most part and continuing at the same school.

So, I'd like to know what any dads or professionals think about this:

1. am I doing the right thing by applying for a residence order?
2. do you think I have reasonable grounds to be applying for a residence order?
3. Is it likely that they would consider a change in a child's residence if it meant she would stay at a school that supported her?
4. Am I doing the right thing, morally?

Sorry for the huge post
Thanks to anyone who reads it and also anyone that can give their opinion, much appreciated
MAC

29 Replies
29 Replies
 actd
Registered
(@dadmod4)
Joined: 15 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 11895

Hi and welcome.

I suspect you probably know the answers to these questions, but in my opinion, the answers are:
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes

If I was in you position (well, I have been, in fact) I would be doing exactly that.

At the moment, you haven't asked any specific legal questions, so I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to ask the CCLC to drop by at this point, but if you haven't already done so, there are a couple of sticky topics at the top of the Legal Eagle section on representing yourself in court, I'd certainly have a read of those. I'd also speak to social services about their opinion of you keeping your daughter and applying for residence immediately, and seriously considering either withholding contact until the residence case, or only allowing it as supervised contact at a contact centre.

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

I agree with actd , it's yes to all of the questions you have asked. 🙂

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

thank you both for your replies

just heard back from her school and they support my decision to file for residence and will support me and provide a statement when/if needed from the court. The school are really supportive and have even suggested that she doesn't move home at all in order to put the children's needs first..

does anyone know if a prohibited steps order or a specific issue order is the appropriate order to prevent her moving schools either a) at all or b) until the residence order is heard in court and a decision is made (because obviously if shes with me she would stay at the same school and if shes with her mum she'd be putting her in the new school)

thanks again
MAC

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

You could apply for an Emergency RO which would pre-empt the possibility of changing schools. Both ROs and PSOs are applied for with the C100 form. You could mention in section 7 "why are you making this application", the change of school as one of the issues and also submit form C1a which also allows you to comment on the safeguarding issues for the child.

I don't think you would have to file two C100 forms for an RO and a PSO, but it wouldn't hurt to call the court help desk and enquire about the procedure to be sure.

If you go with an emergency RO your case would be heard within 48 hours of the application.

It would also be a good idea to get the SS on board too, as there have been serious issues that have warranted their intervention previously.

Reply
 actd
Registered
(@dadmod4)
Joined: 15 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 11895

Hi MAC

Now it might be more sensible to get the CCLC to pop on - I'll drop them a note and ask them, so keep checking back.

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thank you for your help - Do you think that the previous issues that social services had to look into would be heard under the c1a section I.e it's quite specific about incidences of 'harm' but I guess the harm that I am referringto Is like perhaps emotional/affecting ability to develop properly in a secure home environment - is this really seen as serious as the other forms of harm they refer to on the c1a form? (like types of abuse) thanks for your help

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

I you look at the top of the form it states that "Domestic violence/abuse" means any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional)between adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members. etc

The Children Act 1989 defines the following terms as -
"Harm" means ill treatment or damage to health or development
"Development" means physical, intellectual, emotional, social or behavioural development
"Health" means physical or mental health
"Ill treatment" means sexual abuse and forms of ill treatment that are not physical

As well as the more obvious physical abuse I think emotional, psychological and developmental harm are considered under the one umbrella as abuse. If you look at the definitions given under the Children Act 1989 then you can see that damage to development is considered as harm and when you look at the definition of development it covers all of the aspects that you have highlighted in your daughters case.

I don't think you can ask for a scale of which is more important, they are all considered significantly serious enough to be defined together. All forms of abuse both physical and psychological harm a child.

Although the previous history of harm is important you need to be able to show that this has been ongoing and the child is also currently at risk from the behaviour of the mother. Otherwise her argument would be that she has changed and all of the issues are in the past.

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thank you for your reply again, I'd really like to ask your opinion on a couple more imortant things please, I'm sorry to be a pain!

1. Can people get help with legal aid for a family law case like this?

- I had read that you cannot because it is a family law/child case (unless it involves domestic abuse) - so will this mean that my partner will not be able to get a solicitor (as she is on benefits and would solely rely on legal aid to fund a solicitors fees) or because she would not be able to afford one anyway as she is on benefits, they would paid for her solicitor in legal aid so she could be represented?

2. The social services reports desponding to claims of alcohol abuse which she admitted only to binge drinking when the children were with their fathers or left with someone else and that they were left with with an inappropriate adult and confirmed that maybe she didnt know him well enough, then went on to do the same thing again (the outcome of the second time this happened I am trying to get a report of from social services) and admitted to being drunk when in the sole care of the children upon returning home - are all, as you say, previous issues that have not re-occured (or that I can prove) since that time so I guess she would say she has changed and hasnt exhibited behaviour like that since that time...

So, do I -

a) under question 9.Risk "do you believe that the child has exerienced or is at risk of experiencing harm from any of the following by any person who has had contact with the child" drugs, alcohol or distance abuse...other safety or welfare concerns - Tick both and explain in the supplementary c1a form that these claims were made and addressed and subsequence CAF procedure put it in place or whatever I understand that I should write, OR

b) accept myself, that they were in the past and no longe relevant as I cannot prove that she has done anything like that since that time so leave it out altogether OR

c) do I just focus on the fact that I want her to reside with me because I want her to stay at the same school and in addition have concerns because of previous behaviours (and document them as required in c1a) and the fact they may re-occur in the future if she ends her current relationship and becomes unstable again (or is this too much of an assumtion??)

Also,

Do I say I'm applying for (a residence order) and a prohibited steps order to prevent her from removing my daughter from her current school and enrolling her in another or do I need a specific issue order for this?

Any help/opinions would be much appreciated...

Reply
Registered
(@Enyamachaela)
Joined: 12 years ago

Honorable Member
Posts: 539

Hi Mac

I was reading your thread, got to your questions and I was yelling yes yes yes ! Then I read ACTD's reply and he said it for me! 😆

Unfortunately you cannot get legal aid even when Social Services are involved in family matters 🙁 She cant get legal aid either.

You should apply for an Emergency RO, using C100 and you should complete a C1A also, using the things that you know of, that Social Services are involved and what the school are have said and are saying. You only need to disclose brief detail on the C1A. You can say that issues were addressed at the time, and matters got better, but have since decreased again. Use the schooling issues too. Your child needs stability. so yes, tick safety and welfare concerns. Use the fact that your child was neglected but not the other two...if she goes on to have more children, that could happen again, and also she has had bad relationships...do you know much about the new one?

You need to use what you do know. there is a possibility that your ex is moving away, moving schools so that she thinks her record will be wiped clean, but it wont be.

So basically (a) yes, (b) no and (c) yes.

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Unfortunately no Legal Aid, but the fact that she can't get it either levels the playing field for you. 🙂

You said in a previous post that the school will support you in going for an RO....did they qualify their reasons, are there ongoing issues with the mothers parenting? It would be helpful to know if the same issues are still affecting your little girl. As you know it does concern me that the safeguarding issues are historic and occurred 8 months ago.

You could apply for either a PSO or an SIO to address the issue of changing school. The difference is with the PSO you are asking the court to negate the mothers PR, effectively taking the decision making away from her. With an SIO you are just asking the court to decide on a particular issue.

It's still my opinion that you would address the school issue within the RO... To apply for an Emergency RO there has to be serious safeguarding concerns that are still putting the child at risk... I just don't know how the use of past issues, that have already been dealt with by the school and SS by way of a care plan, will pan out if you only have this as a reason to apply for an RO....without anything current to back it all up. I think you need to find out from the school what the current situation is with your daughter, and contact SS to ascertain what their position is and how they feel a change of school would impact on her. Once you have completed the information gathering as much as you can then make a decision about the best way to move it forward.

Could you remind us what contact you have and how long that has been in place. Is there anything during contact that sets your alarm bells ringing?

I apologise for my caution here....I just think you need to be very sure before committing yourself. 🙂

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thank you so much again NannyJane, here is my lengthy reply! I apologize in advance...  

I have decided to only think of a residence order not an emergency as I don't have that level of concern. and Im asking for the PSO to address the school issue as If I don't get the RO granted I still feel it's not in her best interest to move schools - although she will still move home which will make her schooling still makes it disruptive. 
I have it documented that she disengages with support when things seem to be going okay, a history of drug and alcohol use, and she has admitted to using alcohol as a coping strategy - all in the initial assessment - could I mention this as a concern for ny daughters welfare? Or am i not justified to do so?

She also has bi polar disorder but not medicated as it said she didn't meet the criteria of psychosis at that time - should I mention this? I would rather not drag up something that could be brushed off as 'in the past' or not relevant like im point scoring but all her erratic behaviour problems started when she split from her parter, she's now with her 5th partner (in 12 weeks) she has been with him for 8 months now on and off and that is who she wants to move into a new house with. 
So my opinion is, this situation could and probably will repeat itself but do I have enough evidence to mention this in other concerns for my child on c1a form (if i analysed the actual concern and wrote it properly)

I have a meeting with the school on Monday where I'll ask if they have any concerns regarding her parenting capacity at this time I.e what is making their opinion of supporting my residence order as this is what they are supporting not just the steps to prevent a change in school (they suggested having an order for this) 

Also, my daughters motbher attended 8 meetings allowing the school to believe the shared parenting plan was still in effect! (this makes me so angry) this was confirmed by the school who said 'the CAF meetings have focused more on the younger 2 girls because we were happy with the level of support she was receiving from you' which she hasn't been as the plan ended last October!! 

So I'll be asking for an assessment of the last 8 months (behaviour, general appearance, unauthorised absence, progress, homework and any concerns they'd like to raise or situations they'd like to make me aware of. 
My partner will be attending the next meeting on thursday as she was invited to be a part of the first meeting which she was, before the agreement ended and we weren't sure if my daughters mother would want her to attend. Though there is no conflict there may have been at that time. 

I am asking social service tomorrow for a report of the last time it was raised that the children were left with a second inappropriate adult who left the premesis the following morning whilst she was asleep and he left the front door open as it doesn't lock from the outside (4 months after the first incidence of this was raised and an assessment took place where she was informed of the potential risk if this happened again).
Im also asking for any other concerns that were raised and investigated/acted upon, between October 2012 and to date as there may have been. 
I could use these to prove my concerns for the present (that are otherwise pointless.. ) 

From when I split with her in April 2008 to July 2012 my daughter stayed with me every other weekend.
July 2012 to October 2012 was the shared parenting plan where we had shared residence of her alternate weeks. We had the positive feedback from the school at this time that proved agendas benefitting from the arrangement in man ways. 
When that ended in October 2012 as specified in the agreement we went back to every other weekend - I should have acted on my concerns as they were provable at that point but I wanted her to adjust to being with her mum full time again as it was an emotionally difficult time for everyone especially My daughter. And also for he mother to change and be reponsible - but she has continued to live a lifestyle fuelled by alcohol and frequent drunken nights out leaving the children with babtsitters (confirmed only by my daughter, not provable) or getting drunk at home whilst the children are asleep (proved in the initial assessment from June 2012 but nothing has been investigated since then as no concerns were raised so not provable for the present) - unless social services can say otherwise. 
Also I feel she is not meeting her educational needs (reading not done properly, maths book lost and not replaced, refusing to allow her to do an after school club that the school recommends she should as she will benefit from it) I'm certain the school will confirm this. 
And I proved inthe shared plan I am mre than capable of meeting her needs, especially the time and dedication I can give to her educational needs. (she has 2 young children under the age of 5 and lives alone with all 3 at the moment hence the not coping and subsequent effects of this) 

Final question, might the court just say attend mediation and decide on an appropriate school together as she is certain to move to a different borough regardless. 

I'm sorry to drag this whole situation out in detail but I feel so desperate for opinions to know whether i stand a chance..

If I gathered all the above, probably run it past you (NannyJane) again, and concluded that I was not acting in my daughters best interests, she has been deemed as safe and happy by all who can provide me with that opinion professionally, and that her home environment and subsequent change in housing and schooling is in fact conducive to her physical, emotional and educational development and my concerns are not valid - I would not persue this any further. 
Maybe I don't really have any grounds to apply for residence?

Help..!

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Hi MAC 🙂

I do understand how you are feeling, there has been lots of safeguarding issues but since you stopped the shared parenting plan things have appeared more settled....your daughter tells you things about her mothers lifestyle that indicate that she hasn't changed, but proving it is a different matter.

Let's address each Order separately. If you go for a PSO and are successful then effectively you will also prevent her from moving out of the area. Your argument for a PSO to keep her at the same school is pretty solid because of all of the interventions from the SS and the amount of effort the school is putting in to your daughters development. The past history of your ex's behaviour would also be relevant to include in the PSO application because it is part of the reason that the school is so involved currently. If after the meeting with the school there are current concerns then this will further strengthen the application.

The situation as far as the RO is concerned is more difficult, although there have been some serious safeguarding issues they are not current, well as far as you know. The fact that you stopped the shared care and went from 50/50 contact down to one weekend a fortnight could be interpreted as you being satisfied that she had settled down and the problems with drink and drugs had subsided.

I think if you discover evidence from the school and the SS that there are continuing issues then it will be much easier to include the past issues such as drink and drug abuse and her disengagement from support etc. as it becomes relevant if it hasn't stopped. If however you can find no substantive evidence of safeguarding issues then using the past history won't stand up as well.

Unmedicated Bi polar disorder could be something to express concern over and if her behaviour is erratic then it would be reasonable to ask for her medical history/GP reports. If your daughter is telling you that there is alcohol abuse then it would be reasonable to ask for testing for that too , it might be pushing it to,ask for drug testing without anything that points to that.

Mediation is something I would usually suggest to try and sort things out....do you think that she would attend, or if she did would she be amenable to compromise as far as keeping your daughter at the same school? If you think there's a chance then it might be worth a try anyway.

I think you need to get all of the information in before deciding on the best course of action. If you can't uncover anything current might it be better just to go for a PSO and Shared Residence....as this has a proven track record and it worked before, this might be something to consider.

Reply
Registered
(@boycieuk)
Joined: 12 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 555

Hi Mac,

I didnt realise the situation had gone like this.

There are safguarding issues, alcohol, strangers, mental health. Bipolar - has she been on lithium etc?? How bad are her manic spells?

I think you need an emergency interim contact order, let alone a C100. There is clearly some evidence in your case the children benefitted having both of you.

I would suggest you apply for shared residency at least. The children are not safe with that kind of lifestyle. What triggered everything to getting worse?

BW

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Trouble is Boycie the safeguarding issues were dealt with and interventions put in place 8 months or so ago . The fact that MAC went from 50/50 contact to one weekend a fortnight, (his choice) at the same time could also be interpreted as the mother improving ...and until MAC talks to the school and SS there are no current concerns, just the fact that the mother wants to move house and move in with her Boyfriend. This would mean a change of school.
The Bipolar is unmedicated and there is no proof of alcohol or drug abuse currently.

Reply
Registered
(@boycieuk)
Joined: 12 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 555

I cannot comment on the specifics but I note that is a significant change from 50-50 to a weekend per fortnight to nothing. Would courts destablise matters this significantly as the mother has got herself together?

So I guess the way forward is speaking to the agencies and see if there are concerns, along with another application to re-introduce contact? I was less aware of the ongoing situation.

Congratulations on your 2K/2001 post 🙂 - lots of people have benefitted so thank you on everyones behalf 🙂

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Thanks Boycie 🙂

Poor Mac chose to drop the contact down and its probably something he regrets maasively now, and not going all out for Residency when it was all going on... Hindsight is a marvellous thing...

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thank you both for your help and opinions it's such a difficult situation.

Ah yes hindsight - for which there is no words.

I do intend to wait for further feedback from the school and SS to support a RO if the school can specify why they support my application I.e ifthey have ongoing concerns.

The plan ended because we had agreed (and I have this document) that should an exceptional agreement tak place (including refusal to collect a child) the plan will end, it will go back to previous structure (every other weekend) and legal action would be taken.

This gve my daughter 8 months to adjust baxk to being only 6 I should allow her time to adjust and for her mum to take on board the support she was receiving. ([censored] hindsight)

Unfortunately, life continuing every day in the meantime, 8 months had passed, I'd secured a more suitable residence and her mother was in the process of changing her home and school.

Fingers crossed I get the evidence I need to support a RO if not I will have to file for a contact order or convince her to attend mediation because she definitely won't let me see her once this Process is taking place let alone afterwards... Maybe shared residence if She attended the same school she benefitted from it as befor and there were maybe conditions requiring alcohol concerns could be raised and properly investigated or I would keep her for her safety and that there would e consequences if she broke the agreement? It does seem more civilised - in theory, probably not in hindsight!!

Reply
Registered
(@boycieuk)
Joined: 12 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 555

Heya Kenny,

please have contingency. School and potentially SS are not likely commit to recommending. All they can do as an agency is comment on the child and the current state. They maybe bold enough to say what impact any change might have - but this is speculative. All of this should not delay the application of the forms to reinstate contact. Do all of this concurrently. If there was contact and there is no clear reason as to why it was discontinued then you should be home and dry.

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thanks for your reply boycieuk, I was thinking that I should wait to hear if the school or SS had any concerns/complaints investigated currently that would be seen to justify my concerns (as I have genuine concerns I just can't prove them) would I not be applying or a residence order with no reason if I go ahead and apply now (as I am struggling for specific reasons i can give under section 7 i think it is knowing that I have no current evidence from anywhere to justify such a change to them?

Im currently seeing my daughter every other weekend so should i ask for that to be allowed during the process? Is tht something the court can do?
I understand what u said about the weight of their recommendations thank you for reminding me to prepare for other outcomes it's easy to forget when you feel desperate!

The advice I've receiving regarding the PSO to prevent a change in school is that I should have a strong case for it as I'd discussed in a few threads up but I'm worried about not having enough grounds to apply for residence because as of yet I have no current issues with her parenting capacity - that I can prove - I obviously have concerns. Until the school or someone can bring anything up I can use as confirmation of my concerns with her parenting capacity - i understand it that this is what I'm drying to prove there are issues with? I hope I have understood the process properly because I have to state what sheerness broke down what I want the count to do about it (and something else I think?) I don't know how to raise a concern I can prove in some way?
Thanks again I appreciate your help

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

**what arrangements have broken down (not 'sheerness')

Reply
Registered
(@boycieuk)
Joined: 12 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 555

State that you were a significantly involved father and in the interest of the children you would like to maintain contact and residence for their general social and psychological well being and to improve continuity of care etc etc...:)

BW

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

Thankyou for that help I feel like my brain is turning to jelly with what I've taken in over the last few days - I dread to think of how my daughter might have felt all that time ago or even now. there's so much I should have done I feel awful.

Based on what i said, in your opinion, Do you think I hve any grounds to apply for residence?

Reply
Registered
(@boycieuk)
Joined: 12 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 555

There is only one way to find out Kenny. There should be no reason in British law why a parents cannot apply for residency of the children. You need to try at the very least and know you did your best. I personally fear this and want to look my kids in the eye at 18 and know that I tried my very best by them. Clearly this is only one of many reasons, but ultimately the children are entitled to see their parents as the major issue, not the other way around. Its in their best interests unless there are mitigating circumstances.

BW

Reply
Registered
(@Enyamachaela)
Joined: 12 years ago

Honorable Member
Posts: 539

Might be better to wait until you have the meetings next week, and you will be in a much better position to make decisions (except the PSO because you will need to get that dealt with quickly....when does your ex intend to change schools?).

As Social Services have been involved in the past (even though you said it was 8 months ago) the Court could approach them for a report rather than CAFCSS.

Of course if SS now said that they would support your application, you can state this in any application to the court, and again, the Court will go direct to them for a report.

However, if you do still have your fears that your daughter is not safe, then yes go for an RO. See what the meetings say first, give your brain a chance to calm down 😆 Oh and make notes of anything you want to raise at the meeting, so you don't forget anything and it keeps you focussed too 🙂

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Once the application is submitted, CAFCASS will be asked to compile a report for the court and they will liaise with SS, the police and any other agencies that have been involved. At the first hearing the judge would probably ask for a further report on the child's welfare and this would probably be a section 7 report, this would be done by the local authority which is the SS.

When you have your daughter every fortnight how does she present, is she clean and tidy, are her clothes adequate? Does she appear happy and her usual self? I understand that she tells you that her mother still drinks, does she have anything to,say about the boyfriends behaviour?

Reply
 MAC
Registered
(@MAC)
Joined: 12 years ago

Active Member
Posts: 10

NannyJane, these are things I notice but I don't know whether a report or anything would highlight or even mention these as a concern, but she always comes to me very tired with dark circles around her eyes (not what I'd expect from a 6 year old who when with me, goes to be with no objection whatsoever at 7pm) even after a school day I think it's still questionable. 
She is certainly not happy to return home, and I fear this is not just because she's not staying with me and it's time for it to end, it's returning home to uncertainty and inconsistency (but how I prove that I don't know) 
The other thing that is not good but probably not major is her footwear as her mum will not allow her to wear trainers when she is with her (so the ones I bought for her now stay at my house where they are worn) I mean not good as in winter boots falling apart, dolly shoes that give her blisters for weeks etc (at age 5 she had mod calf leather boots with a small heel to be 'like mummy' but im just mentioning this to you as an observation i know most parents will probably argue over clothing but my concern is it paves the way for personality, behaviour...) also clothes that are too tight like she hasnt noticed but would appear like she is well dressed, we had ripped underwear that doesn't fit in the past but not lately. 
The only thing this might raise is how much money she has to buy these things. She receives all benefits she is entitled to (she was recently prosecuted for 50,000 pounds benefit fraud 2 few weeks ago as she had her previous partner living with her and working that wasnt declared and she was still receiving all benefits she could get i think it was a suspended sentence she got)  We agreed when we split in 2008 that I would pay for replacement buggies, trainers (when she was 1 - 4 she had worn trainers!) coats and then half of school uniform and shoes. (she has own clothes here) This worked fine (when she was with me 50/50 I bought my own uniform for her, for when she was with us) we did this because I was in and out of work and it would have been less to get maintenance when I was on benefits (20 pounds) I work now so she said she wanted 60 pounds a month in cash which I did for 2 months until I couldn't afford that myself and she made a claim for CSA which I only found out about when they called me which by her own admission she did because 'when I move in with my boyfriend I won't be entitled to benefits so I'll need all the help I can get' ... She confirmed we had our own arrangement until the present day, and the only reason I haven't completed this with them is because this situation is now taking place.
Her partner was aggressive with me at the front door saying he wanted to talk to me (as I'd argued with her because of issues with her dropping her off to me the first time in 5 years but he's never tried to approach me before) he was trying to force his way out when my ex partner called my daughter inside immediately from me and prevented him from leaving the flat - I then had to leave, having not said goodbye to my daughter (or anything to him) to witness my daughter crying at her bedroom window then looking back with the net curtains open and dropping them to walk away (as if someone had shouted o her toget away from the widow) Hence this situation arising! Hindsight also springs to mind here. 
Other than that she doesn't say anything about him. I have heard things from people that know him (he takes class A drugs) but to my knowledge, unless SS say otherwise in the next few days, there has been no official concern raised to them about him or her probably. 
My partner is meeting the school today but I have a bad feeling that following what happened above just the Sunday gone, it will be hostile to admit the shared parenting plan is no longer in effect like shed said to the school but my partner would never do anything to jeopardise any support or progress and is only going to say I dont agree to the change of school abd will exercise my rights if they ask further.
Im now thinking, if I dobt hear from the school on Monday that they have ongoing concerns, or from SS who probably won't knowing my luck, that I'll be filing for a PSO knowing I have the schools opinion to back that up and instead of asking for residence which with no proof she's incapable, I probably won't get - if the school say they have ongoing concerns and feel she would benefit from the stability of living with me as she did before, and any further investigation says the home in stable and my stable support and relationship with her is that crucial to her development, emotional, educational, is this good enough to support I my application for residence? - failing this, I'll have to just apply for a contact order to continue seeing her every other weekend because she will quite literally want to spite me from any angle. 

Reply
Registered
(@Enyamachaela)
Joined: 12 years ago

Honorable Member
Posts: 539

Do SS know that your ex is with this guy with a drug habit? I would certainly let them know that this is information you have received from people who know him.

I am sorry but clothes that are too small and ripped knickers are just not what to put on a child 🙁 (although I note you said it was in the past!)

Have you tried putting the ex name or her partner's name into google...it comes up with all sorts of information, including court appearances!! Could be worth a look 🙂

Reply
Registered
(@Nannyjane)
Joined: 13 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5426

Hi MAC 🙂

The tiredness and dark circles, and her reluctance to return home are factors and you could note them...less so the clothes in my opinion. I know exactly where you're coming from, we have been known to rip my grandsons clothes so that he couldn't wear them again... inappropriate and dirty clothing was an issue for us too, but it didn't form part of the court case when my son was applying for Residence. Injuries to her poor little feet from her shoes is awful, its a pity you didn't photograph them, if she ever presents with any injuries in future I think its a good idea to document/photograph them.

The claim she has made through the CSA needs to be addressed. Do you know that you are liable from the day she made the claim. I mention this because you said you haven't completed it with them. Its important that you do otherwise you will accrue arrears. Stop paying her directly, or if you do you need to pay her by bank transfer or standing order as this is the only way you can prove that you have paid....and always reference the payment as child maintenance.

Its very difficult to prove someone is a drug user unless they have a conviction or are on drug rehab, but you should raise this with the SS, as your ex has a history of drugs this may well ring alarm bells. They should at least investigate it.

Once you have all the information to hand it will help you make the right decision. You do need to get the PSO in quickly though as she is intending to move in August. It might be an idea to go for shared Residence anyway, and then you can do that at the same time as the PSO. If evidence turns up that she should reside with you then that can be presented as part of the shared residency and you can ask that she reside with you for the most part and her mother for weekends....this would tie in with the need to keep her at her present school. Her mother could still move and your daughter would stay with you during the week to accommodate this. You can also show that you have successfully shared the care of your daughter previously

Reply
Registered
(@childrenslegalcentre)
Joined: 16 years ago

Honorable Member
Posts: 447

Dear MAC,

As I understand you are planning on making an application for Residence Order. I can confirm that you have to make this application on a C100 form and will have to file this at the local family proceedings court nearest to where your child is currently living.

This form (and all the forms mentioned) can be obtained from www.justice.gov.uk or from your local Family Proceedings Court. There is a fee of £200 for this application. If however he is eligible for a fee exemption you can complete a fee exemption form entitled EX160a. Once you have completed the application form you need to hand it in to your local Family Proceedings Court along with the relevant fee and the Court will then contact you with a hearing date.

Something that you may want to look at when applying to the Courts is the Welfare Checklist. This is a guide that all Judge’s must follow when deciding whether to grant a Contact Order.

The ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in light of his age and understanding);
b) His physical, emotional and / or educational needs;
c) The likely effect on him of any change in his circumstances;
d) His age, [censored], background and any characteristics of his, which the court considers relevant;
e) Any harm which he has suffered or is at risk of suffering;
f) How capable each of his parents and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, is of meeting his needs;
g) The range of powers available to the court under the Children Act 1989 in the proceedings in question.

In regard to preventing your daughter changing schools, it would be a Prohibitive Steps Order that you be applying to the court for. You can make this application on the same C100 form as the Residence Order or can raise it as an issue to be taken into account when deciding on the Residence Order. This is would be considered a relevant factor as to whether the Residence Order needs to be made.

We hope that this answers your enquiry, however should you require any further legal advice please do not hesitate to contact us via our free phone helpline 0808 8020 008 open Monday to Friday 8am to 8pm.

Yours sincerely

CORAM CHILDREN’S LEGAL CENTRE

Reply
Share:

Pin It on Pinterest