[Solved] Mediation worth it, or straight for contact order

One thing to note just in case your ex gets wind of you using this site try not to use yours or your child's real names or locations….just in case it compromises you is my thoughts here.

Mediation is the first thing the courts expect you to have tried these days, they will not consider contact orders unless Mediation has been at least attempted. I’d offer your ex the chance to come to a compromise first in writing if she won’t offer to try mediation to resolve the differences. If still unwilling then Court may be your only option but please see some of the stories of other dads here who tried this and put the ultimatum to their ex’s…..a lot of us did and have been fighting ever since to see our kids.

Do you get your daughter every weekends Friday to Monday or just alternate weekends? Or as and when the ex “lets you”?

So…..if your ex is firm on the times of you picking your child up will she allow you the extra time to make up elsewhere? Extra days during the holidays / weekends etc…?

If she is flatly refusing then you have to ask yourself what is the best for your child….does she like dancing class? Do you want to prevent her doing something she likes because you want your time with her – sorry if that sounds harsh can’t find a way to write it softly.
I’d guess being a little girl she will enjoy Dancing and how nice would it be to see her enjoying that?
I know I’d love to take my lad to Football /Rugby/Cricket on my days or whatever he gets into but know my ex will be trying to do that to stop me enjoying the father son stuff we should be able to do.

Think about what your daughter would like most and as hard as it may be for you to take on the extra driving etc… its still you and your daughter doing something she may enjoy.

Again this is just my own opinion.

Hi - thanks for your reply.

I get to have my daughter alternate weekends. At the moment it is Friday pm to Monday a.m. Whether this changes to Friday to Sunday when she starts school I do not know, but I hope it doesn't change as I want to be able to drop her off to school. Just a verbal agreement we made when we split up, nothing in writing. We have also verbally agreed that we share school holidays when she starts school in September this year, 50/50% each.

I cannot make up the time elsewhere that I could potentially lose if I have to pick her up on a Saturday lunchtime due to A) I work Monday - Thurs nights. B) The distance of 80 miles round trip is neither fair to me or my Daughter. She hates the journey as it is. Also - this is not fair on my Dad either as he loves picking her up on a Friday.

I agree she does enjoy dancing. But she enjoys the activity's I do with her on A Saturday just as much - Swimming, Bowling, going to the park etc. How can you mark one activity as more important than another and prioritise? If for example she was 12 years old, then ok, she can make her own mind up about what she would rather do, but at 4 and a half years of age it is a different story.

This conflict of interests with my ex rose up last year as well about the dancing. I tried to appease her by saying that I would find a dance class over where I live so she can still go dancing on the Saturday's I have her... this was thrown out straight away !

Thanks

Hi there 🙂

I seem to remember this discussion a couple of months ago, have you been picking your daughter up on saturday since then?Did you sort out the issues with your daughters attendance at your wedding in July?

I agree with what Dad-i-d has said.... It's all albout what's best for your daughter and dance classes are something that most little girls love.

I understand how you feel but you have a good amount of access to your daughter, 50% of the holidays when she starts school is great and you will be able to do all sorts of family activities then, and it will be something to plan for and look forward to.

I do feel for Grandad too, perhaps you could suggest he has her for tea once a week, say on a wednesday, thats a good compromise I think.

If you were to try Mediation you would be able to discuss these suggestions and hopefully reach an agreement that suits.

I feel if you were to argue this in court you might not get what you want, the judge would see that you have regular contact with overnight stays and shared holidays, and would be unlikely to force the mother to take her out of dance class every fortnight, and may take a dim view of your inflexibility.

Yep, I agree completely with NJ - you have to put yourself in judge's place and what he would think is reasonable.

So let me get this right - I am going to attempt mediation first, as I believe Court will want to see this has been attempted first. If mediation fails - which I am sure it will knowing what my ex is like, then it will go to court saying mediation failed but was attempted. If I ask for a straight forward, normal, contact order to match the arrangements that I have had for the last 2 years IE Friday night to Monday morning at my house, and 50% school holidays ( Daughter starts school September this year ), to share/alternate special occassions IE Birthdays and Christmas, to be able to take away abroad once a year for one-two weeks, and also to be able to talk to her on the telephone once or twice a week. I have never failed to pay my maintenance by the way, have no criminal or medical problems. Are you telling me that because my ex has enrolled my daughter on a Dance class every Saturday ( Including my weekends without my consent which interferes on MY time ! ) that they will write this specifically into the contact order that I have to take her on a 70 mile round trip to Dancing !? Or I will have a contact order which states from Saturday pm until Monday morning ? I cannot see for one minute myself that a judge would not allow me friday to monday and for me to choose what I do with my daughter and family in my time... please someone tell me if i am wrong.
Thanks.

...I'm sorry that you're not happy with the responses you got, these are just opinions and its entirely your call as to what you do about your problem.

The court arn't interested in the affects on you or your ex, they are only interested in what is best for the child, so when you say -

(including my weekends without my consent which interferes with MY time!) it wont hold water....it comes across as being all about you I'm afraid. You also talk about your daughter as "my daughter", if you use that terminology in Court you will be corrected, you would need to refer to her as "our daughter".

Sure the arrangement that you have had in place for the last two years shows that you have a close parental bond with your daughter and are doing what is best for her, but she is getting older and things like weekend dance classes, after school clubs, and going away with the school on trips will become part of her growing up and experiencing life away from Mum and Dad. If when she wants to go away on a school trip which coincides with the weekend she spends with you, or she is invited to a friends birthday party that clashes, are you going to say no? That wouldn't be fair on her in my opinion, she shouldn't be made to feel she has to choose.

If as you say you cannot see for one minute that a judge would not allow friday to monday, and for you to choose what you do with your daughter in that time, then by all means take it to court. I wish you luck! 🙂

So the judge would see it in our daughters best interests that she travels an hour+ to mine on a Friday night, then does a 2 hour round trip the following morning to go dancing, then another one hour + trip back to her Moms on a Monday morning ? I live 35 miles away from where Ex lives with our daughter and where the dancing is... so what you are saying is that, say I happened to have to move to Leeds or London, which is 2 hours commute from where Ex and our daughter live, then I would still be expected to ruin my precious time every other weekend and still take her dancing ? Excuse me if I am being a bit blind here, but your logic doesn't make much sense.

How about if I were to enrol our daughter on Karate classes on Saturday's where I live ? I would not expect for one minute that my ex travels all the way here on her weekends as I do not see that fair on our daughter ! So how is it fair to me ? I have suggested to Ex that I enrol our daughter on a dancing class where I live, so the Saturday's I have her she can still go dancing - as per usual though, Mom knows best and that suggestion fell on deaf ears and wouldn't allow it.

My daughter goes to Nursery and there are many weekends where I take her to children's parties. School trips ( as far as I am aware ) take place in the week, so as she spends the week with Ex then this does not impact on me.

I take my daughter swimming on Saturday mornings when I have her, this clashes so I couldn't take her dancing at the same time. Surely by me being hands on and teaching her myself swimming, this has got to be better than palming her off onto some dance instructor, and I would have thought that maybe most people would see swimming as a more important life/survival skill.

If my daughter were 13 years old and really interested in dancing then I could understand, but at the age of 4 - come on, can you remember being 4 and how many different interests you had ?

...I do understand you frustration, honestly....your ex should have discussed dance classes with you prior to enrolling her, but she didnt and though you feel aggrieved theres not a whole lot you can do about it except try to mediate or go to court. We have given you our opinion about what may well happen if you take it to court but you dont have to accept it, as I said its your call.

Given the choice between your daughter having to do the extra round trip on Saturday to accommodate her dance class on the weekends shes with you, or agreeing that you pick her up on Saturday, I would say the Judge is more likely to agree to the latter as its in the best interests of your daughter....this is just my opinion of course! If you chose to move to London or Leeds that would obviously be your choice, and picking her up on Saturday after dance class would become all the more viable. I do excuse your "blind spot" and understand why you think my logic doesnt make sense....your perceived injustice has a lot to do with it....just my opinion!

Having your daughter enrolled at two different dance classes wouldn't work either. They are taught routines and entered into competitions which would need your daughter to attend regularly, only going to a dance class for 50% of the time would put her at a distinct disadvantage at both schools!

You make the point that there are many weekends where you take her to childrens parties, whats the difference between that and travelling to take her to dance class? When I talked about school trips I was referring to the future when she is older. I think the point I was trying to make was that flexibility will be needed as time goes on and she begins to develop her independence.

If I had given my daughter the choice between dancing class or swimming when she was little I know for a fact that dancing would have won hands down! I think this would apply to most little girls to be honest. Dance class is a whole culture, competeing, taking exams and winning medals, certificates and trophys. Then you've got the costumes, some of them are works of art! I dont think your ex would be classed as palming her off on some dance instructor, she would argue that its good for her development both physically and socially.

I'm 57 now but I have abiding memories of ballet and tap classes which I attended from the age of 3 until I was 12 when I lost interest! I still have my first pair of ballet shoes....so yes I can remember being that young. It might surprise you to know I can still remember my first day at school too!

I would really love to be able to tell you what you want to hear, but I'd rather be honest with you.

I just don't think you understand the fuller picture.

My Dad gets her on a Friday as this is the only time he gets to see her for a few hours on a Friday. Since he lost his wife ( My Mom ) last July, this time is even more valuable to him. It is also something they used to do together ( Mom and Dad ) on the Fridays, and one of my Mom's last wishes was for my Dad to carry this on - which he has. So not picking Grace up on a Friday is out of the question as Grand-parents are fully entitled to time with their grand-child as well.

Regarding the Saturday's. Grace absolutely loves spending time here with my Fiance and step-son due to all the activity's we do. I feel that bonding as a family is far more important than dancing for an hour or so and ruining half a Saturday due to travelling 2 hours, plus the time it takes to park up in Wolverhampton town centre, and then travel back to Tamworth. I believe that the enjoyment she has whilst in my care is also a big part of the problem as she goes back to her Mom on a Monday and obviously tells her Mom how much fun she has had, and I think this riles my Ex, for what ever reason. I believe that my Ex purposely enrolled Grace on a dance class on a Saturday, to try and ruin the time we have together as a family.

Some other things to bear in mind to get a picture of the person we are dealing with.

When my ex split up with me and moved out of my house, she would not give me the address of where she and my daughter were living - for 5 weeks. I only found out by chance where she was living, otherwise she would not have told me. I also gave her a Thousand pounds to help set up a new rental property when she moved out - she took the money and never told me she had actually moved in with another guy.

She wont tell me what school my daughter is going to in September - despite asking on many occassions.

I try calling Grace most nights or every other night to talk to her - My Ex refuses to answer the phone so I can speak to my daughter.

She has told me she is going to refuse access to Grace unless I take her dancing on Saturday which could mean not being able to come to my wedding or come on the family holiday.

I could go on and on.

Do you see the bigger picture now NannyJane - the situation is just not as clear cut as Dad not playing ball with regards to a Dance Class, there are lots of things going on. And when there is another 13/14 years of this to follow, surely it would be a lot easier to have an official document regarding access and times, holiday arrangements, special occassions arrangements, and also being able to talk on the phone - just simple, normal things that most normal people wold agree are important to a Father who loves his daughter dearly and wants a fair crack at being a good father.

I understand everything you are saying but my opinion remains the same. The deed has already been done, she is already enrolled at dance class. Unless you can turn back time, theres not a lot you can do about it except to try Mediation or go to Court.

You can discuss specific contact at Mediation and have it written down, and then have that put into a Consent Order I think, Court is a last resort and really does bring out the worse in people...and my fear would be that the judge wouldn't grant you what you are asking for anyway.

Regardless of how you feel about the mother and the way she has behaved, it doesn't alter the fact that she is the mother of your child and it would be so much better for you all to try andf find some agreement without resorting to Court.

It isn't fair, life rarely is in my opinion. Please dont get bogged down by this one issue, there are many on here that know exactly what it means to bite the bullet and make some compromises. If you cant do that then theres just the one option, ask a judge to decide for you.

Your daughter is only 4 and she still relies strongly on the Resident Parent, as she gets older and becomes more independant she will become more vocal and let you both know how she wants things to be. She'll have a computer, skype and a mobile phone and she will have as much indirect contact with you as she likes and you too! But whatever age she is if someone were to ask her, I'm sure she would just want her Mummy and Daddy to get on!

I'm not your enemy here and the advice I give is only my opinion. I wish you well in whatever you decide, and whatever that is we are always here to offer our support, advice and our opinion on things!

Good luck 🙂

Thanks for your input - I guess it's good to see both sides.. I am obviously biased towards my views and other people like yourself have the same views as my Ex.

I am seeing a solicitor for an initial consultation tomorrow so will be good to see their view on it.

Sorry for going over old ground again - But at this present time I really cannot see how a Judge/magistrate could issue a varied contact order purely around the basis of a Dance Class on a Saturday Morning 35 miles away. Hopefully I will be proved correct but I will stand corrected if i am wrong on this.

Thanks

Hi Noel,

Just a thought could you maybe find out if that particular dance school offers any other sessions perhaps on weekdays rather than Saturdays or is there another dance school local to your ex that she may consider that offers sessions on days other than Saturdays?

I know in my area several dance schools that have sessions on weekday evenings (5.30ish).

Hi Noel,
Many moons ago my ex and I went to mediation and we thrashed out contact , days holiday etc. After we had drawn up the agreement, one thing she said has stayed with us for the last 15 years and it was very good advise,
' This agreement will change many times over the years and always have the child's best interest at heart '
she was right , we tried to keep to the routine but over the years things do change, your child will try many different things, including hobbies, sports , sleep overs eventually . Being flexible is the key. I realise your ex is controlling you right now , but it may be just a short lived hobby, your child might love it but on the other foot she might refuse to go after a couple of sessions. Going to court in this case would be seen to be a waste of court time, going to mediation would be a waste of time as it sounds like you and your ex are set in your ways. Try to think of a way you can accommodate dance lessons. Not only is it great exercise , your little girl will meet new friend's and love getting dressed up, how proud you will feel watching your little ones first show(if she doesn't get bored and drop out ) . Can she stay at your Dads overnight Friday can he take her to the dance lessons, can he stay and watch. can you stay over at your Dads on the Friday with your Daughter and keep your Dad company too , Can your Dad have your Daughter one night in the week for tea, think out side the box. seeing solicitors are very expensive and going to court can costs thousands . Your ex is the main parent with care and how ever unreasonable you might think this is, she will have the majority of say. remember the solicitor is there to make money and he will gladly take yours and lots of it ...

Hi.
Well I went to see a solicitor who offered free half hour. Put me straight on a lot of things and also he is more than sure that I am being reasonable and my ex very unreasonable. Reason for this is that I have tried to "mediate" with my ex and offered already to take my Daughter dancing on a Saturday in the town where I live. I have also asked my Ex to take my daughter dancing on a weekday after nursery/school so that it doesn't interfere with my time with my daughter. So if it does have to go to court at a later date, at least I will be seen to have tried to find a half-way point with my ex. He also made it clear that as, since we have split up for 2 years, I have had my daughter every other weekend friday to monday for the last 2 years, my ex would look very silly in court if she was trying to wreck this long-standing arrangement/routine just for the sake of a dance class and not being willing to compromise on it. Especially as I have it clearly on an e-mail from her that she will stop all contact with my daughter if I do not take her dancing where she lives. It did not cost me a penny for this advice, and he also made it clear to me that I can represent myself quite easily should it go to court.
So now I know where I stand, and the way forward now is ultimately with my ex as to whether she will consider an alternative arrangement on the dancing, or whether she wants to be made to look stupid in court by wrecking the 2 year routing my daughter has got used to with me. All as I thought really before I went to see the solicitor.
I'll update as things progress.

Thats good 🙂 .... but I wouldn't crack open the champagne just yet. As I've said before, you can't second guess what a judge will do that is why, to avoid huge disappointment, its always best to err on the side of caution. By the time you get to court you will be a few months down the line and your daughter will have been attending dance class for months, I still cant see a judge ordering her to be taken out of the class at that point....just my opinion again! I dont mind if I'm proved wrong though! 😉

I definitely wont be cracking champagne open, either now, or in the next few months, as there is nothing to celebrate. I don't see this as winning or losing, I just want "Fair" arrangements for Myself, my daughter and this family, without being dictated to by someone who is a power freak and thinks she can control me/us.

Oh dear....it's just a turn of phrase. I shall back away gracefully, no offence intended!

IN MY OPINION….and I mean no offence either………..I can’t help but see the way you are typing and coming across…..you are fed up of your ex telling you what you can and cant do with your daughter….you’re fed up with her controlling your time…..
i feel for you I really do…I had that for 3yrs before I had enough and left my ex….i’ve had it the last 3yrs as well just trying to see my little boy more…..each time I disagreed with my ex she stopped contact until the courts made her resume contact.
Each time I went in to court saying she was stopping me seeing my son….each time I was reminded that it was my son who the court will be putting first and not just what I want!…..the contact should be what is in the best interests of the child….in my case my contact with my son was being prevented totally when I didn’t agree with my ex.

As much as I hate having to be flexible with contact when my ex is inflexible and unreasonable

whats the point in all this……..in most of your posts you come across as what YOU want….we all want more time with our kids and crave more time with our kids…….but what does your daughter want? Does she want to go dancing or is she being forced to go dancing?

You’ve heard other people’s points of view and don’t agree….thats fine…that’s your point of view versus theirs.

Just a word of caution……if you’ve the money to spend on solicitors in family courts then just be aware they will help you spend it and you may get less time with your daughter as a result.
I took legal action as I wasn’t getting enough time with my son….as soon as the paperwork was received by my ex she stopped all contact! Read some of the other fathers stories on here and you’ll quickly see similar patterns!

We fathers get the rough end of most things to do with the kids when we separate from their mothers…….and yes it stinks and hurts like [censored] but unless your ex suddenly changes then you’re not going to get anywhere fast.

Suggest mediation to thrash out/refresh contact arrangements…..solicitors will just stir up the emotions and more than likely put her back up even further….if she’s like my ex - totally unreasonable and uncompromising – then she’ll be “how f*cking dare he take me to court…I’ll show the b*stard”!!!

Like I said at the very beginning of this long winded post its just MY opinion based on my own experiences just like many others here….and I mean no offence.

I agree with dad i d. and Nj Solicitors will tell you what you want to hear then then charge you the earth. Noel like I said think out of the box as this subject will raise its head many many times over the next 16 years , Think what is best for your daughter , be flexible , stay calm. Now if what you are saying means your ex is controlling all you do then fine take her to court to get a defined contact order, but that over the years will change, my son is now 15 and he tells us what he wants or in whose home he wants to be at, at the weekend he understands we all have lives as well it’s all about communication and listening. The Mum is the main carer and I don’t think a Judge will go against her decision whatever the solicitor says, yes I think she’s being a bit selfish by taking some of your weekend but things change people change, you are going to open a bag of worms if you continue and may end up losing contact for months and months, be careful.

I will actually disagree slightly - when my case was going on, my solicitor didn't tell me what I wanted to hear - he told me what he thought was likely to happen (mostly that was what I wanted to hear, because he was right, mostly it did happen) but if he thought I was wrong, he told me so, and I trusted him for that. Having said all of that, it did cost me an absolute fortune, and I agree with the above that it can happen because there are a lot of solicitors who aren't as good as mine was