[Solved] Need help with court action

Hi caringdad and welcome to the forum

First, indirect contract means letters and phone calls, but not actually seeing the children.

Without knowing the details of the event (and there's no particular need to post details ), since there has been contact up to that point, I cannot see any reason why there shouldn't be at least supervised contact.

Since you are not using a solicitor, you can get free advice from the children's legal centre, and also the family rights group may be able to assist. Normally, we'd ask them to pop on and comment, but since there may be confidential and sensitive matters involved, you may wish to ring them both and discuss them matter over the phone, but by all means ask any further questions you may have - it would be worth reading yoji's post on a guide to representing yourself in the courts of you haven't already done so.

The children's legal centre link is at the bottom of this page and the family rights group link is in the banner at the top of the website.

Ah, don't think the banner at the top gives a link to the family rights group, but their confidential hotline number is 0808 801 0366

May also be worth having a look at their recent post as that may help you - follow this link
http://dadtalk.co.uk/forum/legal-eagle/11256-advice-wanted#11258

Hi Caring Dad,

I just wanted reiterate the points that ACTD has made and reassure you that you can represent yourself. The Children's Legal Centre are a fantastic resource for parents seeking to represent themselves. You can talk to them in complete confidence and the legal advice that they give is free.

Your situation is clearly very upsetting for you and your partner. It is clear to me, and I would like to think the Police and Social Services, that your ex has a potential motive to make a false allegation and attempt to block contact. I would say to you both that you need to sit tight and endure the situation until the police and social services complete their investigations. Sadly this is not an uncommon siuation, but the courts and the authorites are wise to these tactics.

Best wishes,

FM '70

Thanks for the advise - Well the police and social services concluded their investigations and not surprisingly no further action is being taken. The police advised me that the boys mum was aware of this from both them and social services and that if she continued to deny contact it was her decision.

I was denied contact on 2 occasions on one when I attended home for them the police were called as there was still a flag on the address of course mum failed to mention this fact to the officer attending.

We were in court on 25th and Judge basically said that the original order must be complied with by both parties, we have to attend a programme and cafcass have to complete their letter - ( due to my chasing they'd spoken to me but not ex - only 2 days before and they couldn't advise court either way.

Since then I've had boys once got to the bottom of allegations - one made it up to stop mother asking questions other went along with it to stop brother getting into trouble.

Contact has now been stopped both last weekend and last night. On Monday I dropped a letter into court explaining what happened at weekend and asking for order to be enforced - court advised today that hearing has been brought forward by 2 weeks but it not until end March.

Apparently on Friday ex contacted police saying boy were too frightened to come for contact and they advised social services whom I've spoken to today - they apparently are to speak with mum but from what I understand they will say to withhold contact is her decision and close referral passing to Cafcass. When I spoke to Cafcass they didn't think a W&F was necessary though thats before they'd spoke to the e who no doubt will lie to force their hand .The boys have lied to them before in a wishes and feelings and I've no reason to think they'll do differently this time especially given the allegations made recently for fear of reprisals against mum

I'd hoped judge on receipt of my letter and given his comments last week would have enforced order but not so, the court says even if I apply to enforce I wont get an earlier date than March already in system. This is weeks away and I'll miss substantial contact, is it worth going to enforce? do I continue to attend for contact wasting time fuel and money ? If I don't she'll no doubt claim I didn't attend

Any advice one what's to be done

Hi caringdad,

You cannot have an Order just enforced. Procedurally this first will mean a Warning Notice being attached to the current Order.

Only once this is done, and Contact still persists to stop can you lobby the Courts to enforce the Contact.

Your ex is definately committing emotional abuse on your sons. She is encouraging them to become involved far beyond their remit too and she is soliciting them as aids in her own agenda's against you. I take it you had quite a nasty split?

Having been in a similar position to yourself regarding the Contact, you will need a C78, this costs £45.00 to file into the Court local to your Child(ren) or where the original Order was made. Although it is not compulsory to attend, as you can file a statement, its always worth going in person... especially considering allegations are still going forward.

You will need to take a long hard think about how you will go about discussing the issues in Court. In my opinion, they need to be raised very directly with the Court that your ex is interrogating your Sons on return from Contact, your Sons for fear of reprisal are going along with whatever allegations are being made.

In my opinion, and provided you have evidence you could be very brazen about the situation i.e. undue pressure is being placed on your Sons and Contact is being denied solely through your ex concocting lies and hiring your children against you.

This is something that actually fires along Parental Alienation.

My Advice

Raise through the Courts a C78 Warning Notice
Attach a copy of your Existing Order to this C78
Include a Cheque for £45.00
Send to the Court that the Order was made (they can deal directly with another Court if needs be)

2-4wks later, it is important you attend the hearing to have the Notice Attached. Take with you evidence of Contact refusals and anything else relating to your ex's manipulation of your Sons.

The hearing is a fairly brief affair, however given your accounts may well take a while. Once this hearing is concluded the Panel will announce their findings, and from what you are saying should put a Warning Notice on the current Order.

Hope this helps 🙂

this is where I'm confused there is already a warning on the original order and on the subsequent one issue following directions on 25th

the relevant bit under warning being

where a contact order is in force if you dont comply with this contact order -

a you may be held in contempt of court...........and/or

the court may make an order requiring you to undertake unpaid work......

but I assume this isn't an enforced order or am I missing something

My understanding is however that further action against their mother can't be taken as the order is not 'enforced'

anyone ??

Hi caringdad,

Apologies for a while to respond to the post.

If you have a Warning Notice C78 attached, you will now need to proceed with C79 which will trigger a hearing for a your ex.

Currently the Order is not being enforced. A Warning Notice is not designed to enforce contact. It is exactly what is says a warning. Given the things you mention in earlier posts i'd suggest you would need to counter such allegations and convince the Court/Panel that your ex has construed things of a malicious nature and its sole purpose was to stop or by way of Police/SS force or [gather] support for contact to be stopped under basis of XYZ.

Obviously only you will be able to counter the allegations but your challenge will be to convince the Court officials be it a Panel or a Judge of her intentions.

Hope thats helped 🙂

Things have moved on - though not seen my boys since 31 Jan -

Two directions hearings later and cafcass where to have sorted contact at a centre but failed to happen mother continues to assert boys too frightened to attend - delays due to wrong paperwork submitted to local contact centre by cafcass who are basically being useless.

the judge has now ordered a guardian and solicitor to represent the children in the case under Rule 16(4) - the guardian is to be the cafcass officer who just doesn't seem to accept that the boy are manipulated they now say they wont come are frightened and dont want to come -

I cant afford costly legal bills - having spent around 6k on the first proceeding over 18 months to get the contact I had up until Christmas when mum made up the harm allegations against my partner to make an appeal to have the original order dismissed.
The boys came clean and told me why they'd said this - being put under pressure by mum following time with me on christmas eve after which the allegations where made

Obviously I'm worried with the latest development and that their mother will get her wish and i wont have any contact. Am I reading this wrong - why the solicitor and guardian

Especially as I dont see eye to eye with the cafcass officer who is to be the guardian she wont listen and simply fails to understand how the boys are being manipulated

Can you just confirm that you aren't now represented by a solicitor? If that is the case, we can ask the CCLC to comment.

No Ive been representing myself in this latest application made by my ex at the start of the year. Sorry but whats cclc?

That's fine - cclc is the Coram Chidrens Legal Centre - they are qualified lawyers and can give advice if you aren't represented.

I'll ask them to pop on and give an opinion.

Dear Caring Dad

We would be grateful if you could contact us via our webchat facility which can be accessed at www.childrenslegalcentre.com in order to clarify a few points and be able to advise fully. Webchat is open 9am-6pm Monday to Friday We also have a freephone advice line number which is 0808 8020 008 and this is open 8am-8pm, Monday to Friday.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

CORAM CHILDREN’S LEGAL CENTRE