[Solved] Residency or Contact Order?

I can't offer you any specific advice I'm afraid (as you will probably realise after commenting on my thread). What I can say is that there are some really helpful people on here and that Nannyjane recommended Families Need Fathers to us who have been great. Also give Coram a call (their number is on a link at the bottom of the pages) who can offer free legal advice, they have been amazing at explaining things to us. Good luck with it all.

Hi T-UK

Firstly, I'll point out that Coram can only give advice if you don't have a solicitor already - can you just confirm this, in which case we can ask them to pop on here to comment.

It's tricky to know what to advise - the one thing that I think might go against you getting residency is that it would be splitting your children up from their half-brother, and your ex will almost certainly make this point, which leaves you (aside mediation). If it wasn't for this, I'd say you had a good case for going for residency. Would be good for some other opinions on this.

This leaves you with going for a contact order - an advantage of this is that you could include your ex's son in this as you have been his dad for all purposes, so you won't necessarily lose contact with him.

Ooh thanks, that's really interesting to know. One of the main things said this past year to hurt me is that i'd never see the eldest again. I've been his Dad since he was 1, his biological Dad is not allowed near him, lives miles away, and has no interest anyway. Much of what has been said to me by her is ill informed, I am finding this out now. She is certain that she will get legal aid and be able to reduce my time with the children to every other weekend- and she's even claimed that she will be entitled to 40% of my wages! I already knew the 40% was miles out, now the legal aid seems unlikely too as there are no existing issues, this is a simple break-up.

I haven't been to the solicitors, I don't have one in mind even as everything I have read here and elsewhere has suggested going through these first few steps myself. I'm quite confident that a contact order to regain my 50% of the time should be successful, I have thorough records and as mentioned before have even swapped my work around a good few months ago to give me more time with the kids.

My first mediation meeting is set up for the tail end of the month, I spoke to the lady there today about setting up my assessment. My ex is the one who has initially contacted mediation, which I find interesting but am not confident that anything decided on there will be stuck to at all.

Thanks- today has been my third day off, third week without them, the longest I have ever gone before is six days when I was in hospital. I even had the baby here from the first weekend he was born, when he was less than a week old. Its been hard but the two posts today have really strengthened my spirits 🙂

OK, I'll ask CCLC to pop on then, may take a day or two, so keep an eye out on here. I'm sure others will pop on here as well.

Hi there,

j1626s suggestion to contact FNF is a good one. They have branch meetings nationally and if you go along they will be able to,give you good advice and support going forward. www.fnf.org.uk/help-and-support/local-branch-meetings

As you have recently initiated claims for child benefit and tax credits, might this be the reason for stopping contact?

It might be a good idea to see if you qualify for legal aid...domestic violence is one of the criteria for legal aid eligibility and as she was cautioned for assault this may be enough for you to qualify. You could look for a solicitor who offers a free half an hour consultation and run it past them, they will be able to advise you whether you meet the criteria.

Actd is right, the eldest boy has a right to have a continuing relationship with you, you would need to bring this up as a priority in mediation, courts will take your close father /son bond into account regardless of the biological aspect....plus if you approach the children as one unit it will be more favourable....courts do not like to split siblings.

You might like to consider a shared residence order, and applying for PR for the eldest boy so that he could be included in the order. This could well be the way forward for you.

Hi Teacher UK

As there are no court orders in place right now your ex partner can unfortunately stop contact as she has done as there is no automatic legal right to contact. However she does have a legal duty to be reasonable as to contact and if she is not this could reflect badly on her in any future court proceedings.

You have taken the right first steps in attempting to organise mediation, you would be expected to attempt this by the court. If your ex partner refuses mediation unreasonably this will again reflect badly on her in court and your attempts to go through mediation will, on the other hand, show you’ve tried to be reasonable and avoid court and will reflect well on yourself.

If mediation does fail and you believe that it is in the best interests of your children to have them reside with both you and your ex partner on the 50/50 basis you had when you first separated you can apply to court for a Shared Residence Order, that if granted would be legally binding and set out the children are to reside with you both on a 50/50 basis and state how that is to operate. You can apply for this order for all three children, though you would need to apply for permission from the court to apply for your eldest son as you would not have an automatic right to do so as you are not the biological parent.

In order to apply for permission to apply for your eldest son you would need to use a C2 form; this form is available from your local County or Family Proceedings Court or online at www.justice.gov.uk. When deciding on whether or not to grant permission the court will consider the following:

• The nature of the application, e.g. for shared residence.
• Your connection to the child.
• Any risk that allowing the application could pose of causing disruption or harm to the child.

You can apply for permission at the same time as making the application itself the court will just need to consider giving permission before deciding on the substantive matter of whether or not to grant an order covering your oldest son.

To apply for the Shared Residence Order you would need to apply using a C100 form, available from the same sources as above. When deciding on whether or not to grant such an order the court will base their decision on what they feel is in the best interests of your children, in order to do this they will go through the welfare checklist:

• Wishes and feelings of the child (weight given to these feelings depends on the age of the child, more weight being given to a child over the age of 11).
• Childs physical, emotional and educational needs.
• Effect of any change on the child.
• The age, [censored] and background of the child.
• Any harm which the child has suffered or may suffer.
• How capable each parent is of meeting the Childs needs.

It is also worth noting that the court’s do see contact as the right of the child and will normally look to protect the relationship between a child and both parents where possible and would only look to restrict or limit any contact where there are strong welfare reasons to do so. If you have a Shared Residence Order granted in your favour for your oldest son it would also mean you would be granted Parental Responsibility for him meaning you would have equal legal rights as the mother toward the child and you would have a right to an equal say in all key decisions in his life, for example educational, medical and religious decisions.

There are fees for making these applications, the C100 will cost £215 and the cost for the C2 is variable and should be checked with the court but would normally be around £100. There is a fee exemption form called an EX160A, again available from the same sources as above, which you may wish to look through to see if you have to pay these fees.

If you require any further advice please do not hesitate to contact us. Our advice line phone service on 08088020008 is available Mon-Fri between 8:00-20:00.

Yours Sincerely

CORAM Children’s Legal Centre

Some great information here.

I would say the advice thus far is sound and sensible. The difficulty with applying for Residency is separating the siblings, but also a change of residency where there are no serious safeguarding issues is extremely difficult to achieve.

Shared residency fits the bill in my opinion, as you already share the care and have the children almost half of the time, or at least you did until very recently.

There is a lot of research on the Internet, there were some links to information on shared care posted on one of the topics recently. You might like to start with this

www.thecustodyminefield.com/SharedCareResearch.html

Hey everyone. Thank you for some excellent, comprehensive answers that have really given me many new areas to consider. I am truly appreciative.

First thing, we have a small breakthrough tonight. I have all three children here until Sunday night. This kind of came out of the blue, but the reasons have become a bit clearer since I collected them after work. My eldest (and thanks for educating me on the possibility of gaining PR for him) hasn't been to school since Monday and the youngest has horrendous nappy rash. I'm not jumping to any conclusions but I am certain there is a need for my support after almost four weeks without seeing me. The kids are great though, so excited to be in the car with me and so difficult to get to bed as a result! It made me realise that it's not just a case of them not spending time with me, the forced separation has also removed them from many of their favourite toys, the places that they play, and even just my cooking- all big things for young children.

Interestingly my ex partner actually approached mediation first, but given the distance to travel there I am expecting it to not take place. One of the main issues for mediation will be money, and although she has twice what I have coming in there was still a 'bring money with you tonight' text earlier today. Of course, having only just started work my last wages at the end of July have had to cover two months rent, and for various reasons I have no savings, I literally have £50 to get to the end of the month, plus some cash coming from eBay. This will last me as I can now walk to work and have a quarter of a tank of petrol for the 40 mile round trip to collect and drop off the kids, but there is no spare. Indeed i've talked to the CSA both yesterday and today and the assessment given my new (much lower- i'm not teaching) wage is that I will be paying just £32 a month. This is going to cause problems, as will the application for tax credits- as per your question, Nannyjane- but on my new wage I am left with £80 a month after rent and bills and so have to go for it in order to feed the kids when they are here! Nevertheless things will kick off when the CSA send their letter saying it's just £32 a month now.

So thinking ahead, if mediation fails should I plan to go straight for the shared residency C100 and additional C2 form rather than a contact order? The money aspect isn't a problem even given my low current wage as whilst I don't like borrowing or asking for money my parents are keen to pay for this in order to support me and they have no money issues.

I'm concerned that given the history even if we reach a sensible (ie back to the 50/50 care the kids have had for over a year) solution there is a fair chance that it will fail within months. Whatever happens its so calming to know that the support available here is so [censored] good!

One last thing tonight, now that the kids are here i've had a couple of texts asking how they are. When relationships are civil we do send photos and update texts, but I have had nothing, no updates to how the first week at school went or anything. No text to say that the baby has started standing on his own. Under these circumstances would you text back now or not?

That's great, she may have thought she was punishing you but in reality it's the children that suffer the most. I would take a dated photograph of the baby's nappy rash...It might be useful. You should start to record everything from now on, just in case you go to court, that would include the eldest being kept out of school too.

As far returning texts, I would say yes it's better to keep the lines of communication open.

Have a great weekend!

Thanks. Timely and useful- I will send a brief text back 'they are great all asleep behaving brilliantly' or somesuch. As much as I want to think 'I won't stoop to those levels' I do fall repeatedly into the trap of thinking that if she doesn't do something I should do the same. She is their mother and will be wondering how they are and therefore I should reply.... even if it annoys me!

Off to bed now, in preparation for a lovely and lively child-heavy day tomorrow. I cannot how big the baby (1 next month!) has got over the last month. He's a proper cheeky boy now!

Can I just add a massive appreciation for your signature too Nannyjane. Reading that now has really boosted me- it's something i'm sure to come back to when I need it 🙂

I think it's always better to be the bigger person where children are concerned, and being the parent that can show calmness, kindness and a reasonable manner even when in the line of fire goes a long way....especially in court. In that setting when you have one parent behaving badly, if the other parent retains their dignity and rises above the [censored] for tat, that shines an even brighter light on the other parents antics and without trying to makes them look even worse...if that makes sense!

Well a fun day and uneventful bar some late and demanding texts, which I responded to sensibly and without taking the bait. Every other message I get refers to '... my kids' and '... our family home' which I don't get but is probably meant to be spiteful. When this does come to court i'll only be looking for fairness- shared residency- but I bet she ends up looking really bad, it's as if she can't help herself. She flaming ended the relationship too!

Kids in bed now, two applications of bepanthen and the little boy is looking so much better. I find having the kids here so easy, even when I was working five days a week it wasn't too much of a pressure having them four or five days out of every seven. I love how they always seem to be so happy here, laid back. It's so nice to be a little family unit again after so many weeks apart- I hope the mediation and court things ensure that we get this happiness guaranteed, and not at someone else's whim.

Thanks all for the advice this week 🙂

Okay, so the FM1 has been returned to me, I have the c100 forms in front of me, and i'm about to reread this thread before I start to fill them in. My former partner didn't bother attending the mediation she requested herself, and it is now six weeks since I have had the eldest boy to stay here. Her attitude has been awful since I last posted. Every Friday i have gone to school to collect the children, and three times she has had the eldest stood there crying because she has told him he can't come to my house. He's now missed 22% of the school year and she left me last Sunday when I dropped the two younger ones off with: 'You wont get PR for him. You're not his real Dad.'

Awful [censored] woman. Whilst I am not looking forward to going to court I do have a little thrill at how insane the things she will say will come across.

A bit of an update and a new question or two.

So i've filled out C100 and C1A, got my FM1 back, and then it was Wednesday, my day off.

Last weekend she gave me so much abuse at her door when I dropped the kids off that I forgot to hand over the antibiotics I was holding in my hand. When i got back in the car i didnt want to go back, and to be fair both bottles were towards the end of their course.

So it was Wednesday, and I had my usual blood tests along with a B12 injection and a MMR injection booked at the doctors, so knowing she would be on the school run i stopped outside her house with the medicine (engine still running) and knocked to make sure nobody was in before sticking them- if possible- thru the letterbox. When I knocked i heard the baby crying for a full couple of minutes. Eventually she came down and took the medicine through the window- she stank of booze. Not much was said, i asked why she wasnt on the school run, and then went to the Drs.

After picking the kids up from school on Friday- i've now not seen my eldest for seven weeks, god knows where she hides him after school on friday- the police knocked on my door. A complaint of harassment from her. Now, not only must I be the crappest stalker in the world, arranging to call at her house at a time when she should be on the school run and miles away from home, but in 16 months this is the first time EVER that I have gone to hers unannounced- and it only happened as I had to change my phone number four weeks ago due to her harrassing me at work, calling me seven times on the day before I went to mediation when she knew I was working and unable to answer my phone, and texting me severe abuse for not picking up!

The officer was great, advising me to use my phone to audio record the drop offs and pick ups in future in case she makes allegations. He knew that id spoken to them three times in the past 16 months- when we split up due to her stealing £3000 from my parents, when she said she'd phone the police unless I took 'HER son' back to her house when she knew I had neither petrol nor money when i agreed to pick him up, and when she assaulted me and scratched the whole length of my car a few months ago.

He also confirmed that the incident with the punching and kicking was registered as domestic violence and as i've probably said before in this thread she was cautioned for it. I was pretty pleased to hear that.

My understanding now is that I can get legal aid for the shared residency, PR, and possibly a non molestation order. I have made an appointment with a local solicitors for early next week, and i'm holding fire on the applications i have filled in for the time being. I receive working tax, child tax credits, and DLA as well as earning <£1000 pcm from my part time school job. I rent my house and have no savings. Am i right in thinking that legal aid is likely to be my way forward now? I have a pretty strong case with plenty of evidence that I have had the children 50% of the time whilst also working full time, I have no criminal record or dodgy things in the past, and i've done nothing wrong to my ex either during the relationship or since. Plus the kids think im ace 🙂

Got to add that one of the best feelings i've had in a long time was being able to not only deny the allegations to the officer but to hand him an 18 page document that has a day by day recount of the abuse i've suffered from her since early Feb this year. He was impressed- he said 'most people have lots of things to allege back when we call round on accusations of harassment, but having this is the absolute best thing you could have done'. Well chuffed with that.

As far as I know, when there has been DV that can be proven and has occurred within the last 18 months the victim is entitled to Legal Aid. The solicitor will be able to clarify this with you.

If she is harassing you with constant abusive texts it might be an injunction you will get but again the solicitor can advise on the best way forward.

The officer was completely right and it goes to show that when we advise members to record everything, as tedious as it may be, it's well worth it for occasions such as you have experienced. Well done!

So I had my first solicitors appointment today and the bad news is that i have £30 a month too much coming in for legal aid. The caution my ex had for domestic violence would entitle me, but the solicitor said that unless my income goes down a little I cannot get it. This surprised me tbh as since changing jobs after my old school closed i'm on what I would consider to be the breadline now- there is literally nothing left to spare after the basics.

The good news is that the solicitor confirmed that my ex would not get legal aid as she has no domestic violence allegations on me. That reminded me that as bad as these battles get, being the parent who ignores all the **** thrown at them and remains solid even when access is withdrawn, threats are made, and slanderous things are repeated is well worth our efforts- however hard that may sometimes be!

She also told me that the C100 I took along was filled out perfectly. Her words, after an hour, were 'do you really need us?' and she thought that bar two errors- one technical, one using the word custody instead of residency- I had done a good job. Now, I have a degree but it was still nice to hear that my research and the help I have received here has been so spot on.

My next movement now is to rewrite and submit the C100. The solicitor advised that the C1A was kind of unnecessary as the future CAFCASS reports will include this information. I am going to book the solicitor to attend the first hearing in court as that should shock the poo out of my awful ex, that will cost £125+VAT which seems pretty reasonable to me. After the first hearing i'm confident that my income will be below the threshold as my current post is only temporary, and i'm working 26 hours a week at the mo as there is work to do, but it is a finite job, and once i have completed the initial tasks it will shift over to maintenance only, which will mean a drop in work for me.

I also have to submit a 'leave of application' I believe she said for my stepson. I was surprised to find that I can't apply for PR for him as we are not married but he seems to be pretty well covered as he'll say he wants to spend a lot of time with me. I haven't seen him for almost seven weeks now but when i phoned her house on saturday morning at 10.20 she was still in bed and he answered, and was in tears in a few seconds saying 'I miss you so much Dad why won't Mum let me see you'?

Heartbreaking but it will only make me more determined to succeed, how ever long it takes. How can a 'mother' bully a five year old boy that much and still think she's doing a good job. I'm very glad that she won't get legal aid, she deserves all the anguish and fears that this will cause her.

Actually one bit of advice i need- I will phone Corman tomorrow to find out but someone may know now- I was advised that I should put my stepsons biological father on the 'others who should be given notice' section of the C100. Now, this is someone who has not been in the boys life for four years, and I never knew him. I know his first and last names, but nothing more and I know the city he might live in. I can't exactly ask my ex for his DOB or address, so what should I do?

Hi Teach,

Such a pity you're just over the limit for LA but the solicitors fee seems very reasonable....that is of course if you feel confident in their abilities.

The leave of application is in fact the Form C2 that CORAM mentioned in their previous post. I think if you get an order for contact for the oldest child then the granting of PR will also be granted as a matter of course.

As for not filling in a C1a ....in my opinion that depends on the nature of your concerns. If the issues are fairly minor then I would say ok but filling in the C1a is your opportunity to raise your concerns and there's no guarantee that the CAFCASS report will pick up on or even include things that you feel should be included. In my opinion filling in the C1a will not adversely affect your case but leaving out your concerns from the onset might.

How distressing for the boy to be denied contact with you....she is so cruel, can't she see how upset he is.....

In answer to your question about the biological father, I would put down what information you know, and explain that you don't know his whereabouts, name etc - you have told the truth in the document, so they can't come back on you for not giving the information.

Once you have engaged a solicitor, coram aren't allowed to advise - just making sure you realise this. It does sound like it might be worth just paying for legal advice on an ad-hoc basis whenever you need it, rather than to handle the case for you

Happy weekend everyone. Thanks for the most recent advice, I have not engaged a solicitor and might not end up doing so, depending on how the first court appearance and the reports go.

I have decided to fill in C1A on your advice NannyJane. I have so far noted down the main events that I think fall into the domestic violence/abuse criteria as listed on the form. Would you be so kind as to say if you think they are all relevant? I'll keep them brief and detail free 'just in case'. I'm presuming that as per the form I pretty much need to select five of these only?

-stole money from me, police called, promised to repay but hasnt happened, we decided not to take formal action as she was pregnant
-threatened to harm herself whilst pregnant, I have texts from her saying this
-left the children in the house on their own, again I have texts
-told me I wasnt the Dad of the youngest two, again more texts
-has told me 'you will never see the children again' on about twenty occasions, again via text
-assaulted me and smashed my car up, police caution issued
-Shut down all contact between me and the kids for three weeks, said later she was doing it to hurt me and the kids (unfortunately this was verbal, but obv I have my texts over the three weeks asking to see the children- all were polite ones too :))
-has not let me see the eldest for two months now against his wishes
-has and continues to send me messages (well until I cut my sim card up six weeks ago) verbally abusing me, saying I do not care about the kids, demanding money, criticising my job, family and new partner, and harassing me over my disabilities, including saying that I will be dead soon (yeah, loads of people die from rheumatoid arthritis!) again, millions of texts to prove this

Does this seem like the right sort of stuff? Im thinking that ideally I should have a list on this form of incidents I can prove, so that she can't deny how [censored] she is. I'm holding back from mentioning the alcoholism and cannabis abuse until the reports, as im guessing there may be some possibility that they can confirm this with her GP, and until then it is pretty much just an allegation- im sure she would deny the many times I pulled out multiple empty vodka bottles that were hidden all over the house that she had drunk whilst looking after the kids when I was working. By the way, i'm going to start referring to her as Amanda here, as in Amanda Holden, who is truly a cow of a woman. Typing 'my ex' or 'former partner' doesn't seem to properly describe her- 'Amanda' does. She has given me a lot of abuse for being fat over the last year and a half (bearing in mind I weight 12 stone and am just short of six foot) but i've now found out she has a new boyfriend with a massive beergut- reports are that he must weigh close to eighteen stone! After all the grief she gave me when I started seeing my Doctor girlfriend too. Ps things going great with the Dr, we spent most of half term away in her holiday home in Scotland as I wasn't allowed to have the kids, we had an awesome time 🙂

...points 2, 8

2. Leaving the children in the house alone is neglect, they were put at risk....proven with texts
8. Emotional abuse against the oldest, he calls you dad and wants to see you but he is being segregated. The school incident with him crying to see you springs to mind.

Drinking and cannabis use should be on this list if she has been drunk and stoned whilst with the children as this puts them at risk. They may want to do drug and alcohol testing.

The other points are more to do with her instability and not so much with physical, emotional or psychological abuse against the children which is what you need to document. You will get the opportunity to highlight her instability, her police record and threats to self harm, and her use of violence and threats against you with CAFCASS once the hearings start.

So anything that puts the children at risk, her boyfriend if he has convictions...and any physical, emotional or psychological abuse that the children have suffered is what's relevant. Absence from school is something else that can be mentioned as its neglect.

personally, I'd get a replacement SIM and a separate phone for it, and let her continue to send abusive texts - it's all more evidence for you to present.

Good idea actd!

Aw but i've been really relaxed the last few weeks without the constant harassment. She's shown before that if the kids are unwell she won't let me know anyway. She is leaving messages on 1571 every few days, and I am recording those. She honestly seems to believe that she isnt stopping me seeing the kids, when i've not seen our eldest for almost two months and didnt see any of them for three weeks in late Aug/early Sept.

I've also found out on the grapevine that she thinks she is about £15k in debt, split between payday loans, bank loans, mobile phone contracts, unpaid utilities bills, rent owed and money owed to club books. I'm shocked that someone on JSA for the past five years can amass that sort of debt, especially given the thousands she took from me, and me paying for pretty much everything during the relationship. I guess this is one of the things making her the way she is towards me and the children.

Jeez...this sounds eerily familiar....uncanny even.
If I didn't know any better I would put money on the fact we
are talking about the same person here.

Kirsten

Jeez...this sounds eerily familiar....uncanny even.
If I didn't know any better I would put money on the fact we
are talking about the same person here.

Kirsten

Oh my god that scared me at first! I think these forums are anonymous enough that although this one is popular someone trying to see if I had discussed my case online wouldn't find this thread too easily. I do worry though, although everything I post is 100% true- im pretty sure that comes across in my writing.

There do seem to be a few archetypes when you read through enough of the posts here. Indeed, visiting some of the mother's forums seems to confirm that there is a 'sod the dad, sod the kids, hurt them all, spend as much cash as possible' approach that some young women push as the way forwards. Indeed, one of the best things about this forum is the fact that you really have to search for any negative comments made by struggling Dads against their ex partners. Mainly we just seem to be saddened and stating the facts, working hard to regain our children and ignoring the slanderous statements slung our way.

My best mate has also had a similar situation to this, i'm sure lots of men do. It's like there is part of a generation that has missed out on having a heart! I'm sure the girl you know lies non stop too. Amanda has even denied she had a boyfriend, erm her Facebook page someone sent to me says she is in a relationship with this bloke! I'm not fussed, im not even majorly interested, more fool him, I know that she has to do everything right now as we head up to court else she may lose the kids entirely. Given her drinking and general treatment of the kids, that may not be such a bad thing in many ways. Gutted for the kids, and annoyed that someone I once would have done anything for can be such a selfish idiot.

As I keep reminding myself, the best revenge is a life well lived- and the two children i'm currently 'allowed' to have just spent a brilliant weekend with me.

The reason I said to get a separate phone for the SIM is so that you can leave it picking up the messages without having to actually look at them (at least until you are ready to do so) - I certainly appreciate how relaxing it can be not getting them (went through it myself, though not as intensively as you are), but it's worth having them available for court. If you can get a phone that stores texts on a memory card, you may then be able to put the card straight into a card reader and dump them into a word document.

Another weekend, another week without my eldest. I told Amanda tonight on the pickup from school that she's had debt collectors round for one of her many bank debts, they're chasing her for about £1k now. She said that I should let them in and they could take all of her stuff 'as most of my stuff is at yours'. My god she's deluded. There is nothing of hers here bar a few bits of tat in the shed, everything else is something i've worked hard to buy myself. She had half the furniture when she left, I made sure she had half of everything even the plates and cutlery just so she couldn't find an excuse to come round here. She did tell me at that time,that she was 'entitled to half of everything, including your clothes' which is laughable.

I'm going to serve these papers next weekend. Its the weekend before my 40th and should cheer me up no end. I found the court yesterday after work, i'm going there on Monday to hand these papers in and pay the fee. She's also given me the best gift ever, her getting this fat alcoholic boyfriend. Her family is going to see him as a real trade up from me, i'm sure!!! The silly woman will soon know how mean she has been to me and the kids, and i'm waiting for the day that I get official confirmation of how good a dad I am 🙂

I'm loving your positive attitude Teacher! Way to go!

Some days we have nothing more, eh Mojo.

I find this forum really empowering, one of the most positive (in an odd way!) places i've shared my thoughts and read about the lives of others.

I've never said anything bad to the kids about Amanda, even when they've seen her committing domestic violence on me. We have discussed it, and even as a young lad my eldest is already giving opinions on his mother. Kids aren't stupid, and my job helps me to understand- even in the darkest moments- that the effect of all of this will only be to bring my children emotionally closer to me.

For all the [censored] she's caused, for her ongoing horrible, spiteful attitude I can't help to see that everything she has done will greatly benefit me and the children for years to come. I no longer have to put up with a drinker who steals from me and constantly criticises me. The kids can grow up seeing that our house is the one full of love, acceptance, and fairness. I'm working hard to make this house a haven, and her domestic violence and police caution only goes to show that she's crazy; even when i've been kept from my children for weeks on end I have stayed calm and done nothing that can be considered harassment. She's highlighted the differences between us as parents before we even get to court. She's done me a real favour in a crazy way.

If I can keep logical and positive even through all of this, my future is bright. Our future as a family is assured. It's nice to see so many others here have the same thoughts 🙂

Wise words indeed...this is exactly the right attitude to have going forward, we are lucky to have your input!

Definitely agree 🙂

Well that's it- after six hours of rewriting the papers on Wednesday- the hardest thing I've ever had to do- the court papers were put in yesterday. They cover everything negative that has happened and still happens, and I've tried to put everything in a manner that means that she cannot deny anything. For instance, rather than detail the domestic violence incident in specifics, allowing her to try and twist what happened, I simply put that an incident occurred which resulted in her receiving a caution, and that all three children witnessed the violence and abuse.

I'm scared to bits that putting this in will see her withdraw my small access to the smallest two, but I know that I can't keep on not seeing my eldest. Simply put, the relationship I have with him is pretty much the most important relationship I've ever had, and at now two months without properly seeing him, I can't let this continue- even if I lose all three for a few months now.

Thanks everyone for being here.

Just had the best early birthday present ever - arrived home to find the court papers returned already, court date is 11th December, two and a half weeks away! I am shocked that it is so soon, what I wrote and how I described how the children were being affected must have carried quite some weight with the judge.

I am so happy. Unless she is completely idiotic and thinks she will get a ruling keeping my eldest from me I could have all three staying regularly in just a few weeks- or at least at weekends until the reports etc are done. At least 'the end'- that is, assured contact after Cafcass reports- is in sight.

I will be serving them on the drop off on Sunday. Looking forward to the drive up there for once!

Wow that was quick...lets hope it continues in this vein and you will be reunited with all the children soon!

We'll it better had. I have found out some horrific things today.

Amanda is smoking cannabis daily, and posting on Facebook that she has been to stoned to take the eldest to school.

In the weeks when my eldest has not been allowed to come here, he has been farmed out to stay in various 'friends' houses, only staying with the grandparents a couple of times. These are people I do not know, and that she hardly knows, and are drawn from her network of school mums, fellow drinkers, and god knows who else. Can I remind you all that this is the woman who thought it was awful that the children got to meet my bunch of friends a couple of times in the summer, a group of teachers, doctors, and other professionals. God how. I hate her.

She has also been getting people to collect him from school, turning up at their houses at 7pm to collect him. And it often hasn't been her who has picked them up, it has sometimes been 'some bloke we've never seen before in a car' according to friends of mine who have picked my lad up a couple of times from school when she has texted them to say she can't make it to the school in time 'due to oversleeping' .

I really need to know how to use this information in court (two weeks to go!) to ideally get some sort of interim contact order pending the CAFCASS reports. Should I get and take in screen grabs of her Facebook pages? I feel that I need to really push my concerns on the judge and to try and gain some stability for the children ASAP, not four months away after reports have been done. I know this May not happen, things may stay the same for quite some time to come, but what do you think I should bring up?

I have already put that I am extremely concerned about her binge drinking and have witnessed evidence suggesting drug use in her house and that I am concerned about the effect that this is having on the children, and I'm sure that all of this was really noticed given the quick court date for our first appearance, but please- any advice on how to proceed.

Needless to say the person who has divulged this information is someone I trust. His wife has stepped in and taken the children off Amanda before when she was screaming and shouting at my little girl. They have nothing to gain from saying this, and he said 'you need to have the children on your custody, for their sakes', and really meant it. My ex needs help, the children need to be removed from that environment. I'm shocked but glad that I can go for a drug test and know she will fail it.

So [censored] thankful there's only two weeks to go until we go in front of the judge. Apologies for typos (I've just read through what I wrote- so many mistakes!) but I'm scared and angry right now. I feel so sorry for my children and that's not an emotion I should ever be forced to feel- and one that it's a crime to put them through. At least neglect is going to be easy to prove, eh!

Definitely get the proof printed off from FB and if possible get a written statement from the couple you mention in the last paragraph ...and anyone else that has been asked to pick the children up and why.

Whatever evidence you take to court make sure you have copies for her and CAFCASS.

This is just awful and I know from experience how utterly distressing it is to know the children are being neglected and put at risk...it's such a feeling of helplessness and anger!

His wife has stepped in and taken the children off Amanda before when she was screaming and shouting at my little girl. They have nothing to gain from saying this, and he said 'you need to have the children on your custody, for their sakes', and really meant it.

My advice to her, if she has to step in again, is for her to immediately call the police, and you - get round there and let the police remove the children (and you then take them) and immediately apply for an interim residence order. Having the police there to take the children and to witness your ex's state will make it easier for you in court.

Hopefully when you served the court papers you got proof of service?

Hopefully when you served the court papers you got proof of service?

Tbh i have just had to pick the youngest two up from her mothers so I presume they are having a family discussion tonight as to what to do. I saw Amanda on Tuesday when i was driving back from work and for various reasons I believe she would have been on her way to the solicitors- to hopefully be told that she wont be getting legal aid. Her mother - lets keep the theme and call her Sharon after Sharon Osbourne- is so tight she won't give a penny to a solicitor for this, she doesn't have a penny anyway. Something odd going on there, she's a supposedly loving grandmother who will only have one of the children a maximum of two nights per month.

Only a week and a bit to go! I'm taking Nannyjanes advice and raiding my texts and doing everything I can to demonstrate her drug taking and drinking. I'm prepared for anything happening in court- I know this may take months to resolve yet- but i'm hopeful of some kind of interim order at least allowing me to see my eldest and 'put him out of his misery'. I've read up on the judge assigned to this case and i'm quietly confident that there will be no messing about, especially as i already have evidence supporting each claim of abuse on my C1A, from domestic violence towards me as evidenced by her police caution to her leaving the kids on their own, as evidenced by her texts.

Put briefly, if a judge was to look at this and say it's alright for them to stay with her pending reports he'd be foolish. There are clear signs that the children are at risk.

A [censored] thought to end the week that contained my 40th birthday, but a hopeful one too- and i do have the youngest two here for the weekend, which I never thought possible when I handed these court papers over!

...Belated birthday wishes! There is hope and that's worth concentrating on....and as you say your contact with the younger two hasn't been disrupted, it won't be long before you will be having all three for weekends. You're doing great!

Its difficult tonight. Only four days to go really, i have the youngest two with me for half of those, but i'm suffering with my anger here.

I had to pick the youngest two up from her mums, she made it clear that they think Amanda's doing nothing wrong. If my eldest is staying there this weekend I really feel for him having to stay with such horrible people. They are scummy, layabout people with no education or a decent brain between them. They have three children, one is a crappy neglectful mum who takes drugs, one has never has a job despite being almost thirty, and the youngest sister sleeps on the sofa, because even they dont want her there. The children will grow up to appreciate the differences between her family and my hardworking, truthful, sensible, caring lot, i'm sure.

Doing all this to three children shows how self centred and useless they are, i'm so sad my children have to endure them as I know they will be treating the children as second class citizens on the rare occasion they have them too. I am going to be calm and purposeful in court but i'm going to be celebrating like a loon if the judge orders drug tests on her 🙂

Also, pending court:

I've had no call from Cafcass, is this possibly due to the quickness of the first hearing?
I have not had a copy of my ex's answers to the C1A. Should I chase this up?

You can request a drugs test to be done but be prepared o pay for it. Not as expensive as I thought. I have just paid for one on myself, passed of course.

I have not had any answer to my C1A even up to this point. She just wrote a witness statement so far. Not even a position statement has been submitted by her.

Final hearing 7th Jan.....:)

Regards,

Dave

Quality fella. Always so good to get a quick response to the things buzzing around my head.

My C100 and C1A focussed on the documented neglect and violence, none of which she can reasonably deny due to it being based on her text messages, school data, and police reports. Presumably the information on those forms caused the judge to push the case through quickly. In court, if possible, my approach is going to be to focus my concerns on her alcohol and drug abuse, which if I had documented them in the forms she would have denied. I have cash put aside to pay for these tests but given the reasons for asking for these i'd hope that once failed she would have to foot the bill. Not worried either way.

Did you get any kind of interim order from the first hearing DaveR? I'm really hopeful of at least gaining some regular contact with my eldest and shoring up regular contact with all three.

Concentrate on the fact that is right and proper to keep all three children together, separating them and leaving the oldest outside of your contact with the other two is causing untold damage to the poor little chap as has been witnessed by you....push the fact that you are his Dad in all but biology, and you love him equally...she should be ashamed of herself!

Bang on Mojo. Yes, a good approach and one that's not in my court notes as much as it should be. I have an awesomely heartbreaking recording of him crying at how much he misses me on the phone ready to play should she say he doesn't want to see me.

If this was the other way round and I had said i didn't want to see him any more as he's not my biological son she'd be selling this as me being the worst parent ever. I may even bring this thought up in court if i'm given the chance.

Approach it from his perspective and the negative impact this segregation is having on him...you need not be accusatory, the very act of her separating him and the others and being unmoved by his distress speaks volumes...let the court draw their own conclusions just give them the facts! Be the reasonable one, confused by her attitude rather than angry, worried that it might be because she is not coping etc etc ....

Well she's been on the phone today (man i'm getting good- within ten seconds of realising it was her I had my iPhone on record!) and given away her 'defence strategy' as it were. This woman is clueless.

On for her domestic violence caution- 'it wasn't that serious, all your car has is a surface scratch) hmmn, doing it in front of the kids and kicking and punching me might be more relevant to the judge

Why i'm not seeing my eldest- 'you have told him about his real dad' hmmn, my logs of her shouting 'youre not his real **** dad' down the street when he was with me (several times!) might help to disprove it, seeing as they are all well before she alleges i've told him this. Also, why would I be going for shared residence for him if I did not consider him to be absolutely 100% my son?

Her main approach- 'We could have easily sorted this out without you taking me to court' hmmn, thats why you applied for mediation but didn't attend, and thats why every attempt of mine to see the kids more has been met with swearing

Of course, she didn't discuss the neglect, lack of school attendance, or give reasons why she has repeatedly withdrawn my access altogether. The judge is going to be slating her come Wednesday. These excuses simply do not wash, Amanda!

I also have to drop the children off somewhere different tonight as she's taking them out for tea. A one year old and a three year old going out for tea at 6pm on a Sunday. Cracking parenting there, not!

'We could have easily sorted this out without you taking me to court' ...That sounds like there's panic in the air!!. Keep pushing, I'm sure your children will thank you. I've been following your story with interest ,as I'm sure everyone else has. Keep us updated today. Good Luck!!!

Thanks. Sat here doing my last few notes, preparing my audio recording of my eldest crying and saying how much he misses me. In an hour i'll be in the court building; in two hours everything could be very different. Bricking it and feeling very unwell but this message has lifted me- good timing pal!

Thanks everyone. Back on later today, fingers crossed for justice.

Thinking of you Teach.

Hoping it goes well for you

Okay, update time.

Wow that was scary. The judge was awesome though, kind to me and helpful throughout.

She has swung a solicitor on the basis of allegations of domestic abuse by me, god knows what that is about, I am honestly shocked as it has been her denying access, being neglectful, being abusive etc throughout.

I've got a contact order for weekends, I no longer have to see her on handovers so there's a fair chance I won't see her again which is what i've been after all along.

I was granted leave to apply for shared residency of my eldest, even though they levelled allegations against me on my behaviour with him (nonsense stuff, i've never said a single thing negative about her to him, not once). Sadly its indirect contact for the interim though, but that's already more than i've had in the past three months 🙂

The judge said a number of things about concern that the eldest would be feeling left out by not being able to see me whilst his siblings were allowed to. That seemed to be suggesting where this is hopefully heading.

Im guessing I need to sort out a solicitor now, especially given the emergence of allegations against me- they wouldn't say what they were.

I have a good fighting fund stashed away, but I may also be able to get legal aid as i've discussed before. I need to get on this asap really.

Not only has the majority of today panned out how I wanted it to, but ironically I came home to a tax rebate of £550 which is brilliant! We also have the opportunity to go to NYE in Edinburgh as it's on a Wednesday and my GF has a flat up there. In a way it would have been brilliant to gain more interim residency today, but weekends make more sense- the kids can spend all week looking forwards to coming here, I get two full days with no need to do school runs etc and I have no work commitments. And of course, given the lead up to this and the past few years, I'm confident that as the children get older they'll make their own decisions as to what they want 🙂

All i've got to do is carry on being a brilliant Dad, the job I was born to do.

Good result 🙂

With regards to seeing a solicitor, if you can get legal aid, then fine, but if not, you have obviously done an excellent job of representing yourself, so consider whether you want to use a solicitor, or if you do, then do as much work as you can yourself so that you are getting the best value from your solicitor.

Great news, I'm glad for you mate.

Hi all. A belated happy new year too!

Well, we were back in court recently. I now have the two youngest ones three nights a week which is almost back to what it was before she stopped me seeing the kids altogether in September. No movement yet on my eldest, but the judge again indicated that his final decision would be that separating siblings would not be something he'd entertain, so I may see him in another two months which isn't too bad.

Being a teacher, nothing came back on the safeguarding report on me as would be expected. Hers however was bad to the point that if it had been me receiving that report i'm sure i'd not have been allowed to see the kids at all. For instance, in November of last year the police were called by one of her neighbours late at night. They found the house unlocked, the kids in bed, and her not there at all. Unfortunately we only received the report in court, as CAFCASS had struggled to get in contact with her. Social Services have also stated that they have major concerns about her parenting skills, although apparently she is 'behaving more maturely' after having been evicted due to non payment of rent late last year and having been rehoused for the second time in two years.

My solicitor has been awesome and he's said that the top price will be £2500 which seems to be money well spent given his advice and letter writing skills over the past month. He's already found out that she has got legal aid by adding in an incident with her ex as the reason for being entitled to it. He got me to chase up my movements and guess what- I was in the US when it happened- it was two months before we got together! He's already had that chucked out of court and is now disputing her legal aid entitlement, which stuffs her solicitors up a little. They must be gutted to have been taken in by her repeated lies.

In other news, i've had a little promotion and am anticipating a large promotion around Easter involving providing training to head teachers which is pretty cool. Onwards and upwards, with my boy and girl here half the week and my eldest surely on his way too 🙂

Well done matey,

its great to hear the good news but also good of you to feed back.

Reading through I am surprised she has got away with so much, there are some serious issues raised by safeguarding agencies.

Fingers crossed for 2014 that not only will the family situation get even better but work side prospers as well.

BW

That's fantastic news Teach! I am so happy for you and the kids, such a shame that the oldest isn't included but by the sound of it that should get sorted out, I'll be praying for that

Congratulations on the promotion too and a belated happy New Year 2014 x

A shocker tonight on the handover. She was late and had our eldest there, the first time he's been near me in four months. She kept him up the road (crying loudly) while she handed over the two youngest, and when she saw that he had turned round stormed up to him, gripped his arm and screamed in his face that he wasn't to look at me. His crying was so loud and heartbreaking at that point.

I called my solicitor, social services, and the police. There's no way a parent should treat a five year old in that way. What a disgusting woman- this only makes me more determined to gain full residency.

That's despicable! Get it down on paper too...I hope the judge sees how nasty she is and how damaging her behaviour is for,the poor little mite. Wicked woman.

Take a camera with next time - you can buy small cameras that she won't notice if clipped to your clothing.

Thanks Actd, but the judge has been quite specific about not accepting recorded evidence. Reading between the lines there is more than enough from the safeguarding report and my original C1A to cover the points I'm making, and there's clear evidence of the various forms of abuse being ongoing.

My solicitor has advised that the police report into this incident will be likely to appear in the enhanced disclosure as it has only just been submitted, and obviously the bigger picture here is that if this is the way the children are being treated they will want to live with me full time when they are old enough to express an opinion.

Horrible to see her take out her feelings on the children though.

Hi, i am back after a good few months away and need of support/advice again.

We had the final court date at the end of march and I gained 50/50 shared residency with no access to the older boy (ss guidance was that it had been too long and despite everything they advocated no contact). Its kind of why i've not posted since, getting used to this new arrangement and the future. The section 8 was incredibly critical of her, with no issues raised with me at all.

This week my daughter told me mums new boyfriend has hit her. This has been confirmed in my mind as the social worker left a paper copy of a referral from the older boys school in my house by accident (she also left her notebook containing private details on what had been said and alleged in numerous other cases, i cannot believe this woman has a job!) This referral says he has made the same allegations in school, mum has been seen with a bruised face, they have also been told that the older boy suffers physical abuse by both the new bloke and by mum: 'its only me that mummy hurts'.

Of course when interviewed a week later the boy has said he made all of this up, new bloke is great and has bought him a quad bike, and the bruises on him were caused by bullies in school and the bruises on mum she has said were caused by removing make up with baby oil. Being a week on, the social worker could see no bruises on her. My solicitor has pushed the social worker to perform police checks on this new bloke, he has a 'one week court trial next month' - ive been told this by someone i trust- which lets face it is not going to be something minor if its a one week trial.

On top of this, mum has been abroad on holiday over Easter when I had the kids for a week and she is being evicted from her home for non payment of rent from HB which im guessing was used for this holiday. The social worker has told me that if there is an eviction for non payment of rent she would not be rehoused.

My solicitor is talking about varying the contact order, applying for a restrictive order, or doing something of this nature but despite all that has been previously recorded and despite a referral from school, the social worker continues to back my ex.

From previous experiences through work id guess that this will end up with her being assaulted and hospitilised as DV tends to stay no matter what police or ss involvement happens, or he'll end up in prison from this existing charge and things will change again. For some odd reason im not massively worried about these two being in a house with the two of them when they go back tonight, i probably should be but from my experiences with her she is the wind up merchant and so my logic is shes more likely to get hurt. One concern is that following these allegations from school the elder boy has been taken away from the house by the grandparents for the next three weeks (also withdrawn from school). My solicitor is on this, as an ongoing child protection case he should not have been taken out of juristiction.

SS are awful and even though the eviction will hopefully take this to a head i'm still gutted that only 3 months after court its all going off again. CSA have finally sided with me after many claims that I do not see the kids at all and having them 50/50 my payment is now under £10 a week. I have a claim for CB in which is very likely to be accepted given my court order amd that there are two children with equal time at each house. So some things are moving forwards but its still slow.

Forgot to add that this referral also says he has said that the boyfriend and mum shout, punch, and bite each other, he hit mum and made her nose bleed and made her cry which is the same as my daughter has said. They've only been together three months! SS are effectively saying that two children have independently come up with the same story and reported it to two different people and yet its not true!

Back home now, the front door lock on the main external door (the porch is internal, theres a flimsy wooden door into the house) has mysteriously broken overnight (didnt hear anything could be a total coincidence) so I am waiting on the locksmith and my boss to call me with advice on these ongoing issues. The children are in playschool as normal, well worried today.

That's so sad that you didn't get contact with the older boy, he must be very upset about that...SS strike again, they're infuriating and it seems to me are either absolutely terrible or totally brilliant....but more often the former! Can you complain about the social worker that's assigned to the case and take it higher. If the case is over you might think about talking to your MP about this.

At least you have made inroads with the CSA!

I hope the lock is fixed and you're feeling more secure.

Hey thanks Mojo.

Another update, I have been awarded Child Benefit for one of the children and so have contacted CSA and am about to fill in a tax credits form. I got screamed at in a 'how dare you take my money' way on Friday but I don't really care, the main thing is i can start to repay the solicitors costs into my savings. I shoudltn have needed to go to court in the first place.

Good luck to every person going through this, its truly awful but once resolved much more secure.