[Solved] The process of contact

Hi Captain 🙂

I really dont know where some women get off, it takes two to make a child! Your little boy needs you in his life just as much as he needs his mum!

You have taken all the right steps to resolve the issue over contact and if she has refused Mediation then that leaves you no alternnative but to apply to the court for a defined Contact Order. If you havent got the form FM1 from the Mediator you need to get that as it should be submitted with the C100 form when you apply for the Contact Order

When you wrote to her did you make her aware that you will go to court if she doesnt reinstate contact? It might help if you make her aware that because of the recent Legal Aid reforms she will have to represent herself or pay huge sums for a solicitor, but that she will not be able to ignore attending court. It might encourage her to start negotiations!

I would give her 14 days to respond before setting the wheels in motion...it might take 4-8 weeks before the first hearing depending on the courts work load.

if you decide to self represent you will find lots aof advice and support here. Best of luck 🙂

Thanks for the reply Nannyjane 🙂 I used your letter, "I am writing to you to request that we put in place a plan for regular and defined contact with............... which is very nice and informal, I did not want to come across as threatening and am trying like mad for things to be amicable.

I pick up the FM1 next week and have already got the C100 forms to digest them before I put the wheels in motion so to speak.

I thought of sending her another letter in a week which outlines my intentions of court, and basically try and get some sort of communications going.

Thanks for offering advice and support 🙂

I think that would be a good idea, give her a week to get back to you and then if you don't hear anything, another letter pointing out things like the legal aid situation and the fact that the judge will take a dim view of her refusal to go to Mediation and would be likely to make an order for her to attend. You could tell her that you would much rather avoid all of that and sort it out amicably for your sons sake and that the ball is really in her court now but that you take your parental responsibilities seriously and will do whatever it takes to be a part of your sons life.
As they say, [censored] hath no fury like a woman scorned, and as you mention she wanted to restart your relationship, she will be feeling very hurt and angry and if she is a control freak, the lack of control she now has will all play its part in the way she is reacting.....the only solution to all of this is time I think, it's only been 2/3 months since you split so its early days. I sincerely hope that given time she might realise that the only important thing here is the happiness of that little boy and having you in his life is what is best for him.

Just had abit of info from a friend who has said to put in an emergency application (£300) to the court and i will get seen quicker, and use the county court as they are better than magistrates, he has a good point,

what are anybodys thoughts experiences?

Hi...

Yes you could apply for an Emergency Contact Order but if you wish to remain on good terms with the mother then I personally think the measured approach is better...its not up to me though, this is your life and you must do what you think is best for you.... and if you havent received any communication from her, nor response to your letters, and you dont feel you can wait the 4-8 weeks, then you can give it a shot. I dont know if its more expensive, I would have thought the fee would have been the same, but I dont mind being corrected on that...although it would be better for your wallet if I'm right! 🙂

I would also agree that the County Court is the better court to apply to.

Hi Nannyjane,

Its really useful to read this info on the contact order process and thanks so much.

You mentioned that a county court is best to apply to than a Magistrates court. Is there a reason for this?

Cheers

Lee

Well, I sent a second letter to her recorded delivery last week asking for contact with my son or I would have to apply to the courts, and have heard nothing, I don't text anymore, I was sick of asking for him everday and her not replying, or telling me "No, your a stranger now!"

I have been left with no option than to fight to see him,

Today I have been in to court and furnished them with my 4 x C100 and FM1, paid them £200

I asked for an emergency hearing but was advised that due to there being no safeguarding issues the lawyer was wondering why I am pushing it.

I could of had it if i wanted, but thought it was better that I didn't go in "all guns blazing"

I decided that this will buy me little more time to prepare.

She is a fantastic mum and I have no concerns, just a control freak in our relationship, and I realise she got what she wanted and I've just been a sperm donor 🙁

The waiting game now begins, I doubt if she will even turn up in court.

Friends have seen her and my son and she is acting like nothing has happened.

Hi Nannyjane,

Its really useful to read this info on the contact order process and thanks so much.

You mentioned that a county court is best to apply to than a Magistrates court. Is there a reason for this?

Cheers

Lee

@Mr_Smith

From my experiences of Magistrates Court and County Court….the reason for elevating my fight to County was at the advice of the Barrister I had when my solicitor at the time couldn’t make the hearing. The reason I was given was that the County Court has more power of enforcement than the Magistrates.

So if you do have the option for getting your fight to County it will save you time if your ex is dragging things out and ignoring Court Orders like mine did.

Hi there 🙂

Such a shame she didnt see sense or at least respond to your letters. It will do her no good in the long run to ignore this, she will have to agree to contact once it gets to court.

There isnt an option for her not to attend as she will be served with the papers, either by you or by the court....sometimes they send the papers to serve back to you and it is your responsibility to serve them, this can be done by post as long as you get proof of posting..
.Dad-i-d knows about other methods of serving so he may comment!

If she doesnt attend then contact may be decided without her in the end I think....not 100% sure about that process though.

Best of luck Captain, it shouldnt be too long before you get the papers back 🙂

Regarding Serving papers I’m no expert……..the first lot I had to serve were back in 2010 and they were done via the solicitor I had at the time.

The only time I’ve had to serve court papers were the Contact Order Enforcement Papers last year, I decided to drop them off in person due to the chance of an emergency hearing I’d been granted and I wanted to ensure I knew she’d received them, I couldn’t afford to have them sat undelivered with it being just before Xmas and the usual postal delays she could possibly blame for not getting them. Later that day I had a visit from the police despite there being no one home in the house when I posted them through the letter box! I took photos of the house…no cars etc… showed them to the police officer who turned up and he wasn’t impressed as he knew that there were two cars on her drive…hers and her fellas!!!

Speak with court about the fact she has ignored and will not respond to letters etc… they will be able to advise how best to serve the papers.
I think the courts do have people who will or can serve them on the courts/your behalf but not sure if there is a cost for that or not, check with the court.

Best advice I can give if you were to serve them in person is to contact the police and ask them to attend the address with you to act as witnesses and prevent a possible breach of the peace.

Because of the actions of my ex over the last couple of years and the depths I now know she sinks to I try to makes sure I don’t have any interaction with her unless in a public place or if I had to go to the house then I contacted the police and explained I needed to be there for “xyz reason” and needed to ensure I wasn’t the victim of a breach of the peace!

It may sound pathetic but I found out the hard way by underestimating my ex! Do not put yourself in a position where its your word against hers! She’ll be believed over you every time without proof! Trust me!! oh and taking a friend or family member with you doesn’t work either as they would be classed as biased.

Having not heard anything for 6 weeks I get a letter from the ex today stating:

“I have never denied you access”

“I would have been happy to discuss convenient visitation, but never given the opportunity”

Visitation- Basically I can see him but with her present

And “I have no objection to mediation although I have never been asked to choose a mediator whom I feel comfortable with”

Again its control in her part, I knew this would happen with court looming.

Should I just keep the letter and continue down the court route so the court can decide the best contact for our son, or reply to the letter and get into disagreements again?

Hi there 🙂

Did you keep proof of postage and copies of the letters you sent her Captain?

By all means respond to her letter stating that you are happy that she is willing to discuss contact and has no objection to attending Mediation. Suggest that she provides the name and address of a Mediator that she is comfortable with. Tell her that as you had not heard from her for a number of weeks that you assumed she was objecting to you having contact with your son, but that you are glad this isn't the case. You could then suggest a time and place to see your son and accept that she will be present for the time being until a more permanent arrangement can be made that allows for you to have unsupervised contact with him. This can be facilitated either at Mediation, or if no satisfactory agreement can be reached there, by proceeding to court. Impress on her that this isn't a course of action that you want to take but that you are prepared to do whatever it takes to be involved in your sons life, and that it is in his best interests to have both parents in his life. Finish by saying that if the time and place that you have suggested isnt convenient if she could contact you to arrange an alternative. Then remind her that if you haven't heard from her within the next seven days you will continue along the court route.

Keep her letter, keep all correspondence and copies of everything you send... it might be helpful if you were to start a diary and keep a record of everything from now on.

I meant to add that I don't think you should pull out of court proceedings because even if you reach agreement at Mediation it's better to get it written into a Consent Order by the court anyway as its legally binding then. If agreement has been reached then its just a matter of having it written up and rubber stamped at court in one simple hearing.

Best of luck

Hi Captain

The court fee for a contact order is £200, depending on your income you may be exempt from Court fees, you need to complete a Form EX160, the information leaflet EX160a will tell you whether you are or may be exempt from court fees.

When you complete your Application Form C100, you are asked what Orders you are looking for, apart from a contact order, also say an interim contact order, the Court may grant this.

As for serving the papers, you can request the Court Bailiff to serve them, there is an additional fee for this of about £60 but it may have gone up since I last asked a Bailiff to serve papers.

Or you could serve them yourself by Recorded Delivery.

Oh and all documents are now issued at the County Court, it is the County Court who will decide whether to send it to the Mags Court.

I think Captain has already submitted his C100 form but I think he would still be able to submit a claim for a full or part refund of the fee if he is eligible. I seem to remember reading that an applicant has six months to claim this back but I shall check that!

I also seem to remember reading that proof of postage is adequate if posting the papers to be served, this is free and you would just ask for this at the post office counter...again I'm going to check that out too! I pretty sure it was actd that posted about this.

There has been debate about which is best, County Court or Magistrates Court? What's your understanding on this EnyaM?

Oh....I must have missed that! Oops.!

In my area all applications are now issued in the County Court, (part of the cuts again!) and I am pretty sure its the same all over the UK, but before that happened, I always issued in the County Court. I think that the County Court is quicker and even so, the Court decide whether they will hear it or send it to the Mags Court (who now tend to hear the simple family matters). So I would prefer the County Court. Not only that the Family Judges are much more experienced in family than Mags. In the good old days the Mags were good! LOL! but I think that crime and care proceedings pretty well keeps them that busy!!

Thanks very much all, I don't think I'm exempt as I'm a professional 😉 I am still proceeding with the court, as she said that I could have visitation.
To me in my situation this is not technically meaningful quality time with our son as she will pick faults with me, argue about what I should be doing and make the whole atmosphere untenable for our son and me.

In addition she can remove this contact at any time by not inviting me round and contacting me at any point and once again be in control of the whole situation.

Nannyjane - she did not respond to my last letter, she has only responded as I sent her an email to tell her unfortunately I have submitted my C100's

Once again thanks all I'll keep you posted 🙂

Was her response by email Captain? I would still respond if it was, it shows willing to reach agreement. As I said its better to let the court process go ahead because like you say she can chop and change as she likes without anything official in place. That doesnt prevent you from going to Mediation if she agrees to it, whilst waiting for your first hearing. The Judge may well order it if it hasn't been attempted anyway, and if you can agree to contact arrangements beforehand, then use the first hearing to get it written into a Consent Order for your own security.

She contacted me via letter after my e-mail, I was'nt going to contact her but thought again, I have PM,ed you my proposed response.
If thats's ok could you look at it please, it's nice to have a second pair of eye's. ;;)

I've pm'd you back Captain 🙂

I have finally recieved a letter stating that I can have supervised contact which is a start, she has asked for a legally binding document with regards to maintenance payment, where do i find one of those?

What about going through the CSA?

I've suggested that, see what happens, she is still being awkward though had given me days to meet up where i'm at work and i sent her my work shedule, she says it has to fit round her and our son 🙁

The CSA is best for the maintenance.

As for contact, contact takes place at the convenience of all parties! not even the Court would expect you to take a day off work at the drop of a hat and she is being unreasonable. Contact does not just revolve around her and her son. However, at the moment, you are probably better taking what you can get and sort the rest out in mediation (which I would still attend) and court (which I believe you are still going through).

I am glad you are taking the supervised contact, some is better than none and shows that you will accept contact whatever and wherever, but I hope that she is not supervising it?

Finally, contact does NOT depend on maintenance being paid or vice versa.

Enyamachaela, thanks for the advice, yes she is supervising it on neutral ground 🙁 it's all I am able to ask for at the minute as she is so possessive.
This is how we came into this mess, even when we were together I was never allowed our son alone, she had to be there, bear in mind I'm confident in my ability to care for our son, as is my family, I am a professional with all the background checks and deal with all groups of people with regard to the public, people at work can't believe it, it so frustrating.
She always wanted him in her sight, fed what she wanted, she even re-dressed him if I had dressed him 🙁 I always felt like his step dad. With regards to my 2 proposed plans of contact which is not overnight, between 10am -17:00pm twice a week on specific dates, she has told me she needs to consider all his pre arranged activities and appointments, surely i can take him to those, she only lives round the corner!
She is also reiterating in her letter that I have always had access to our son but she has only just started replying 😡

I would suggest that you keep doing what you are doing, you are slowly winning, in that you have some contact now, it is unfortunate that she is supervising contact and I would change that in mediation/court proceedings. She is biased and it is preferable that her mother/your mother...and mutual friend even, handle the contact, but as I said, at least at the moment you are getting some contact, and so she cant use the fact that "your son does not know you". And at least contact is on neutral grounds, that is better for you.

Unfortunately she does sound like a complete control freak! NannyJ is so right in that women think they have the right to make demands, but they are not. The law says that the child has a right to contact with both parents.

She must know what his pre=arranged activities are, i.e. football club etc and yes if he has a birthday party or a doc or dental appointment that has to be taken into account. Although I also agree with you, you could take him to birthday parties etc. Majority of women prefer to take to the GP or dentist unfortunately. And as for GP or dentist, they rarely happen at the drop of a hat either so plenty of notice can be given to you

I would continue to press for your contact that you want. On the whole the Courts consider every other week is reasonable, particularly if overnight,, the resident parent should have quality time with child too. However if you have asked for weekly contact one day each weekend is also considered reasonable, and even one evening a week for tea.

Your ex is the same as mine is….she is trying to keep control over what you do with your child. Mine started out like that well before we spilt…….it only got worse!!!

The ex wouldn’t let me take our child out the house without her or even in a different room in the house without her putting her head round the door every 5mins checking on us.

When I wanted time away from her and we split it got where I was told where I could take him, what I should be doing, who we should or shouldn’t see….all her controlling where we went and what we did.
When I took him out to places that I’d said we were going to we would always end up bumping in to someone she knows…(conveniently!) so a couple of times I told her where we were going but then gave my son another option in the car and let him decide where we went (he was only 3-4yrs at that time). she’d then blow up at me for not taking him where she’d told me to take him! Again all control!!!

Because of that she started breaking contact and preventing me speaking to him….this was because “she couldn’t trust me cos I didn’t tell her where we were going or I didn’t take him where I told her we were going!”
In all honesty most of the time we went where I’d said or she’d said….mainly cos my little one liked it there and I didn’t mind as it was good for both of us to just be together….but she always questioned it all the time and when she thought we’d not been where we had she’d stop contact for a few weeks.

I decided enough was enough I couldn’t keep being controlled and had to take action……….almost 3yrs that’s been now! And I’m still having to fight her trying to control things!

My honest opinion……if she doesn’t stop the control she will stop your contact! It’s the same actions from an ex as so many fathers who are getting prevented from being with their kids!
In my opinion her supervising contact is not the best for you and your child…..it will lead to more conflict between her and you cos she’ll start interfering in what you and you child are doing….she won’t be able to help herself from doing it!
Although you never know….she may see you and the kids having fun and being ok together and relax her attitude towards you having time with you kids…….but by the sounds of your ex so far I’d say you’re in for a long rough ride.

As far as I recall, either parent can ask the CSA to open a case, so I would do this before your ex does. The reason I am suggesting this (certainly as the CSA stands now) is that the parent who opened the case in the first place is the only one who can ask the CSA to close it later on - it may not make a difference, but it may be something that's useful later on.

Thanks for the advice, I contacted the CSA today but didnt have my national insurance number to hand so I'm calling them tomorrow.

Dad-i-d can't believe how similar our stories are 🙁

I have asked her to now provide me with a scheduled plan of days when i can have access to him, after I submitted x2 plans to her, non of which she has acknowledged or considered.
To put her to the test I have also asked that she drops him off for a couple of hours at my grandmas, I want to see her response to her statement " I have never denied you access" which is rubbish, she only contacted me after I submitted my C100's.

I have also informed her that if she does not come up with an agreement ASAP then we will be using my pending court case to help.

Hi to be honest even if she does come up with an agreement I would still take it to court to get it rubber stamped , as she can change her mind and you will have to start again

AK is right here....if you manage to come to an agreement between you out of court whats stopping her from going back on it! come up with an agreement then ask court to write it up so you have a bit more teeth should she decide to change her mind.

i've learnt that so much time is lost in delays dragging things back in front of a judge....it always seems to be 6wk here 4wk here, 6wk more....all precious time you end up losing with you kids!

Well I finally recieved a letter telling me I can have access, on neutral ground, supervised by her this friday, her primary concern that she states is, she has to consider his happiness, needs and safety, and that I have not seen him for 2 months (not my doing 🙁 ).

I've informed her that I will meet her, for her not to interfere with me playing with him or seeing to his needs, and to talk constructive if she has anything to say.
I also informed her that his happiness should be with both his mother and father, I would adhere to her requirements reference his needs, and that she can be rest assured I have medical and health and safety qualifications and his safety is primary concern too.

She also states she is happy to construct a rota but can't until she knows what she is doing with work.

I can see there being a bit of tension here as although I am pretty cool and level headed, she can't bear not be in contact with him, and will at a drop of a hat remove him from me with no explanation.

Ii's horrible that I am frightened of her, don't want to upset her, and am a walk over when it comes to our son.

She is christening him in August, something which has been done out of my hands and agreement, and also she is sorting his childcare out for when she returns to work. I have no idea where he is going.

I work shifts and would love him on my days off, this would also help her, I have raised that subject in letter with no answer.

Hi Captain, take the contact that you are offered a the moment, you are being the bigger person! the fact that you have not had contact for 2 months, is a "reasonable" excuse, albeit it was not of your making, but again, you are being the bigger person/

Constructive criticism should not take place n front of your child either an unfortunately you have left yourself wide open to any criticism here, but keep note of any criticism she makes.

Good on you for stating your health etc and that you would not put your child at risk. 🙂
Don't be frightened of her, you hold the card, you can go to Court...remember that please!! 🙂

I would again press her on having your child on your days off, that would be so much cheaper childminder/nursery wise! Again, you show that you are being reasonable, keep it all in writing.

...A small step in the right direction Captain 🙂 ....you wait, your son will be absolutely thrilled to see you I'm sure!

You've done everything in the right way....have you had the date for your first hearing yet?

Make sure you keep a record of everything and copies of all correspondence, txts etc. If ther are any issues during the contact viisit on friday make a record of them as soon as you get home whilst still fresh in your mind. 🙂

Hello everybody, hope you are well
I got my court order which was granted contact "with flexibility" as I work shifts and am unable to have every weekend etc. However a year or so on and my ex is playing up.
She wants to take him to Canada for 3 weeks next year to which I have agreed and asked in return for a weeks holiday in the UK with him next year to which she replied " No your not taking him off me any more than you do"
Unreasonable!
She is now on my weekends started to say he is Ill or for this weekend coming that she has made plans for him, so I can't have him.
I am trying not to react to this but it is hard, any suggestions as to my next move?
Thank you

Hi Captain

Good to hear you got your order, but sad although not unusual that she is playing up.

Perhaps a letter to her to remind her of the details of the order and the fact that when she doesn't comply she is in breach of the order, which is enforceable through the court. Try and keep it non threatening but remind her that if she doesn't take the order seriously then you will have no hesitation but to return to court for enforcement.

Request again extra time next year to take your son on holiday and suggest that as you are being amenable to her Canadian trip because it will benefit your son, put it to her that she should understand that the same applies and stopping him from spending a holiday with you is not in his best interests. Tell her that if agreement can't be reached on this you will consider applying for a Special Issue Order through the court and you will then pursue more defined contact and a larger share of holidays. If she won't budge I would seriously consider doing just that!

Good luck.

Thanks Nanny Jane,

I'm just working out I have him for approx 60 days a year probably less as some days she has made excuses as to his availability, this is due to my shifts and she only lets me have him whilst she is at work and I'm off.
If my contact order was defined and I worked normal hours I would probably get once a week plus every other weekend contact.
This equates to 104 days, I'm after reasonable contact and I don't think 60/365 is reasonable, but what is reasonable though :dry:

Well more than that, and after all she is not showing flexibility and is penalising you if your time off doesn't coincide with when she's at work.

Because of your shifts its difficult to define contact on a week to week basis but what you can get defined is extra contact during holidays. I would definitely be asking for two weeks during the summer, alternate Christmas and birthdays and extra time at Easter. This is not excessive and as she has not shown willing to give you anything extra, the court would see that it's a reasonable request to have some firm definition.