Hello, I've held off talking to anyone about how much I'm struggling for a long time, but something has to give and so I thought I'd see whether this forum might help.
I have a 1.5 yr old and a 4.5 yr old, both boys. They're both healthy and the older is getting on well at school. I am also married and have a loving and supportive wife. There are good times - for example, I had a good couple of hours with my oldest yesterday digging over our allotment. Compared to a lot of people, I am very lucky. But... but...
I have never felt so low and despairing as I do now. I expected it to be tough having kids, but this feels more and more like a horrible burden I wish I had never taken on. I am permanently exhausted, stressed, anxious and miserable. My kids are just being like most kids at their ages, I'm sure - but that means near-constant demands, howling, squabbling, shrieking, whining, chaos, mess, never listening, acting up. It seems like hardly 30 seconds goes by without having to handle something. I hardly see my wife, because although we both live together, we end up taking it in turns looking after the boys while the other one gets desperately needed sleep or rest, or does chores or is out working. We've never really got the hang of getting them to sleep properly so most nights are disruptive.
The worst thing about all this is that I feel like I am in some way disappearing. Who I am is gradually melting away - everything is about these two small children, and what I might want or need is now utterly irrelevant. As for that matter, is anything resembling a relationship with my wife, beyond getting through the days.
I guess that some people's response to this would be 'what did you expect?', 'that's just how it is with kids', 'you're luckier than a lot of people', or that when you have kids you have to devote your life to them as that is what parenting is. I tell myself this often enough, and feel wretched for wishing things were otherwise.
The fact is though that I am not going to be any use to anyone if I collapse completely, and some days I really feel on the brink of that. I am getting to the point where I dread every single day and wish I didn't have to go through it. I almost wish I would have some sort of 'proper' mental breakdown and then at least I could get some medical attention (bearing in mind that anything more than tablets in the UK is unavailable to anyone without serious mental illness or money). I know my own dad had a breakdown and was in and out of psychiatric hospital at my age - though this is a major family taboo so can never be discussed.
I just don't know what to do any more, and maybe some helpful advice from people who have been here and come out the other side could give me a feeling of hope and that I might survive this.
Thanks in advance.
Hello copperbeech,
I think you are being very hard on yourself. You should not feel guilty about how you are feeling. It is hard work bringing up two small children.
I think exhaustion is the problem here, both physical and emotional. If you establish a routine, do you think that may help, such as:-
1) Putting the children to bed each night at a regular time (6.30 p.m.), if possible in separate bedrooms with the landing light left on. Very important to keep this routine. It may be difficult at first but if you persevere you and your wife will have time for each other in the evening and have a good night's sleep which is so important.
2) Spend time with your wife each evening relaxing,
3) If you have a trusted person who would babysit, both you and your wife go out for an evening and have some private time together. Do this on a regular basis, once a fortnight or once every third week.
4) You say regarding the children, quote, "..... chaos, mess, never listening, acting up," do they have guidelines? If not, they will be better behaved if they do have them.
I think conversation with a child is wonderful and very productive, asking their opinions, talking in general, explaining why they must not do something so that they understand the reason why.
This makes them have a sense of worth, builds their confidence and obviously increases their communication skills then there is less likelihood of conflict as they do like to please and as a consequence their behaviour improves.
You could go to your G.P. and ask him for some counselling which I am sure he would refer you for.
Please stop feeling guilty about how you feel, lack of sleep is very debilitating so be kind to yourself and get as much relaxation and sleep as you can. Getting the children into a bedtime routine will benefit you and your wife enormously.
Hi there
This must be so distressing for you, but I want to tell you that it is more common than you would think. It's great that you have found somewhere that you can open up about how you're feeling, it's the first step to making it better.
I would say don't try and compare yourself with others, you are having a hard time and telling yourself you're lucky nonetheless is just allowing you to sweep it under the carpet.
Your situation starts with exhaustion, but I think it's more complex than that and you do sound clinically depressed, I would get yourself to the GP as I think you need some help, perhaps a course of anti depressants and a talking therapy. It might be a good idea to look into post natal depression too, it isn't just women that suffer from this and it may be something to consider.
In the meantime, it would be a really good idea to share how you feel with your wife, I can understand you might not want to burden her with the extent of how bad you feel, but she can help you if she knows how you're feeling.
Children are intuitive and they will be picking up on your stress and anxiety and reacting to it, so it's a vicious circle. We had a member recently that dreaded going home from work and his anxiety built on his journey home, when we pointed out that he was transferring his anxiety to his child when he got home, he took steps to relax, didn't go straight home, drove the long way and made an effort to arrive smiling and relaxed, the result was immediate and his child was a lot calmer, because he was....changing the impact of that first contact with his child had an effect on the rest of the evening.
The family environment doesn't sound normal to me, yes there would be a certain amount of squabbling and things do get a little hectic too, but you make it sound like a war zone! I think there needs to be some boundaries introduced to calm the situation down. Bedtime is a routine that is important and I feel this is where you can start. You must be consistent in your approach here, decide on a bedtime and stick to it. The key word here is routine....putting toys away, teatime, bathtime and a story, then lights out. To begin with they will play up, don't engage with them, put them back to bed tell them firmly that it's bedtime and leave....they will cry and scream but be firm and in a few days they will get the message. Introduce a reward chart, and when they have been good they get a star to stick on their chart and treats when they have a full week with stars every day, or whatever you decide.
Look into nursery for your youngest, whilst your oldest is at school, this frees up time for your wife to get the chores done and have some down time to recharge. Routine is the key, children respond to it and it gives them a sense of security. Discipline is also important, they need to be taught some boundaries and to promote this you can use time out to teach them when they've gone too far. I'm not saying it will be easy, it will be hard at first, but it won't take long before they cotton on and if you reward good behaviour at the same time as introducing boundaries it will settle....consistency is key as is working together with your wife, both sticking to the strategies that you decide upon.
You don't have to follow in your Dads footsteps, things have come a long way since your dad was your age but you need to share how you are feeeling to get help...it isn't just about throwing pills at a problem anymore. It might also help to talk to the health visitor, that's what they are there for. There may be extra support for you, it's worth a try.
You mention family, have you asked for support ? if they knew how you're feeling they might offer to help too.
You've taken the first step by talking to us, sharing how you feel gets easier and we are here to listen and to support you as much as we can, so keep talking.
All the best
Here's some links that might help.
https://www.dad.info/health/your-health/post-natal-depression-dads-how-it-can-affect-you
Hello MotherofaFather
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me, that means a lot.
I think you are right, and that exhaustion is at the root of a lot of things. It also can be a vicious circle – if exhausted it’s harder to be patient, set boundaries etc which can then exacerbate things.
A good suggestion about the bedtime. We aim for a regular time, but it does tend to drift and is not as early as 6:30. Also once they’re in bed doesn’t mean they stay there!
Perhaps some clearer guidelines would help. I guess part of this is being consistent. We do try this, though for whatever reason with very mixed success. To be honest, I have not set out to discuss with the older child the reasons why, for example, they need to sit at the table and eat and not run off all the time. I try to set this boundary but maybe not explain why.
A plus point of my situation is that my older child is able to talk over things with us – and so I could build on that to develop guidelines as you suggest.
Thanks again for your suggestions. I probably should ask my GP about counselling – at least to be put on a waiting list.
Hi Mojo
Thank you for your advice and suggestions, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.
As another forum user commented (and I mentioned in my initial post) exhaustion is at the root of a lot of this. You are right though, and I do suffer from clinical depression. I am on antidepressants and have been for some time. I think these help, but are clearly not a cure-all. I have wondered about post-natal depression – certainly there are aspects of my situation that seem to have started soon after our second child was born.
I appreciate your thoughts on the vicious circle of this. Certainly if I am tense it can affect the situation and lead to a tenser atmosphere at home.
I am not sure how normal the family environment is. To be fair, it is not *always* like a war zone, though there had been a particularly difficult few days which in part led to me writing on the forum. For sure, there are good times, but I think that – for whatever reason – I find it very hard to cope when things become chaotic and things often spiral out of control. I probably should take myself out of the situation when it gets bad, if at all possible. Certainly I do make a difficult situation worse sometimes. For example, yesterday evening I found the older one pinning the younger’s head to the floor by sitting on it and farting on him (the younger was screaming and crying as a result – I’d only gone into the kitchen for something). Obviously I needed to deal with this but I shouted in a loud voice and caused further upset as a result. Whereas this could have been handled differently (and is obviously not the first time in history a small child has done this to his younger brother).
The other post also talked of bedtime routine. We do try to do this, but the time does vary and tends to feel like a battle in itself. Definitely things could be improved here and thanks for your advice on this. I think that a more structured approach that we stick to could be a good first step.
I agree that I could try the GP again. Although I don’t have a lot of faith here, it doesn’t hurt to ask I guess.
Thanks again for your advice – it makes me feel like I can try a few things differently.
Hello copperbeech,
Thank you for your reply.
Albeit 6.30 p.m. may be too early, do not let them stay up late! Also, you must be consistent with getting them to bed at the set time you choose, I think 7.00 p.m. is about the time most would choose. It will not be easy for a start but do stick with it. If they get out of bed put them back in a gentle loving manner and repeat if necessary, do not give in and let them get up. You may have to spend a few minutes with them and read a short story to placate them but be patient and it will work.
Another thing you could try is 15 minutes before taking them to bed put a hot water bottle in their beds, obviously it doesn't want to be too hot. When they get in their beds it will be lovely and warm and cosy and it will promote sleep. Don't leave the hot water bottle in the bed with them, remove it and put it out of their reach. Another thought, never let a child go to bed hungry because they will not sleep, give them a plain biscuit followed by a sip of drink.
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to talk to a child and include them in things you are doing like helping to set the table for tea, they feel very grown up when doing such things and invariably are happy to comply.
I am going to tell you a little story about the value of talking to children on their level, involving them and when necessary giving them a reason why something must be done or not done. My granddaughter, a bright girl, reached the age of three and her Mother had never bothered to potty train her. Something had to be done so one day I purchased one of those fun dresses ( a horrible thing really, lol), she loved it. She said to me, "Can I put it on Grandma?" I replied, "Yes, of course." At the time we were both sitting at the kitchen table, me with scissors in hand to cut the label off. Looking at the label, I then exclaimed, "Oh my goodness, it says on here (the label) that you can't wear nappies with this dress." I looked at her and said, "What can we do?" She replied, "I know, I'm not going to wear nappies anymore." She never wore them ever again. She wanted to wear the dress, was told by me why she couldn't, I asked her what can we do, she then solved the problem. Result, one happy little girl and a happy Grandma.
Don't expect things to improve overnight but if you and your wife are consistent regarding bedtime and try one or two things suggested, I think matters will improve and you will begin to feel a lot better in yourself.
Hello again MotherofaFather
Thanks again for sharing your stories with me. I agree with you it's really important to talk with your children.
Fortunately things have calmed down a bit over the past couple of weeks - and I have been able to enjoy spending time with my kids a bit more. (I'm still exhausted but not quite so horribly depressed!)
We're getting the hang of bedtime a bit more - at least for the 4.5 year old, though the 1.5 year old is still challenging.
It's been really reassuring to hear others say they understand this problem - I think when you are in a really dark place where everything seems bleak then it can seem impossible that you'll ever come out of it. Touch wood - things are a bit better at the moment. Hopefully I can find the strength to stay positive.
Best wishes to all.
Thanks for sharing and glad to hear that you are coping better now. Please do keep posting and we will do what we can to support you.
I just wanted to add that, I agree with all of the advice above but particularly about speaking to your GP if you find you are struggling again. Sometimes mental health issues can run in families so it's good to be aware of that and the help that can be available.
Although the NHS gets a bad rep for Mental Health, there are a lot of really useful services you can access through your GP.
Take care
Hello copperbeech,
I am pleased you are not feeling so "horribly depressed."
You will feel tired but as routines are established with the children you will relax more and sleep better.
It sounds as though things are calming down gradually with the children and with continued perseverance and patience on yours and your wife's part regarding their bedtime it can only get better. Please continue to talk with them and explain why they must or must not do things and involve them as much as you can in helping with things. Do try and stick to a routine and you will be surprised what improvements there will be in the home and on a personal level too.
As you say when you are in a really dark place everything seems bleak but there isn't anything in the world ever stays the same and bleak moments disappear as most things do given time.
I have every faith that you will find the strength to remain positive. Things have improved and will do a great deal more if you can stay with the routines you have adopted.
Hi there
I'm so glad that you are feeling more optimistic and that things are settling down. It really does help to share a problem and it's always surprising how many other people are going through the same....it's good not to feel so alone.
Please don't hesitate to come back as often as you need, to talk through your feelings and to update us on how things are going for you all.
It will take time and there will probably be set backs along the way, but as long as it goes in the right direction as a whole, you will find it gets better....in two weeks you have come a long way!
All the best
lol. visit your local doctor if anyone has despression issues.