When I say dads, I mean dads separated from their child's mother.
I needed a place to vent, so I hope you lot don't mind, and please feel free to share your experiences of attending your child's nursery or pre-school.
Whenever I go for parent's evening, or to meet my daughter's keyworker, I find the experience un-enjoyable. I ring the buzzer, someone answers, looks at me like I'm a criminal, asks who I am, tells me to wait, and shuts the door. As I wait, mums and kids are going in and out, often giving me odd looks, and each time someone opens the door for these people to go on in, I keep being told to wait where I am and that someone will be down to see me in a moment. I just feel really uncomfortable, and the looks and 'greetings' of the staff make me feel like I'm not meant to be there, even though my ex has given them permission for me to go in, etc. I am sure her fiance doesn't get this kind of treatment, and I've never seen anyone else treated like this. But then again, I've only ever seen mums going to drop off and pick up their kids, and maybe this cold reception is why I have never seen another non-custody parent there - it's put them off going altogether - I mean, right now, I don't feel like I can face going back there.
Today I had arranged an appointment to meet up with my daughter's new keyworker, to introduce myself and discuss some issues with her speech that I would like their help with. It was all formally booked in over the phone.
When I got there, I got all of the above routine as usual, but amplified x 10. The staff wouldn't open the door all the way, and were just sticking their head out at me, as if I was going to come barging in like some crazy man. About three of them opened and closed the door on me, asking who I was and weather I had permission to be there. I explained everything and that I had made an appointment with my daughter's keyworker, and they had to close the door on me again to check.
Then a lady I had not seen before popped her head out and said she couldn't let me in because none of the staff working today recognised me, and their manager (who does know me) was away. I calmly explained who I was again and that the appointment had been made over the phone, and that I had walked all the way there especially (the keyworker was too busy leading a class to come to the door herself, as it happens).
They then said they would phone my ex to ask her if it was okay for me to come in (my ex has already given permission in the past, and the manager and my daughter's old keyworker know this), and shut the door on me. They popped their head out again and of course, no, my ex likes to make my life difficult and decided not to give permission today.
They suggested I ring my ex and shut the door on me again. I ring my ex, very calmly and politely. No, she won't let me go in because my daughter is there today, and if she sees me and then I go again it might upset her. Fair enough, of course I can understand that, but I thought they were on holiday and that's why they keyworker agreed to the appointment? No, they came back Monday, she says. So, the keyworker, knowing my ex doesn't want me at the nursery when my daughter is in attendance, booked the appointment anyway, and won't come to the door herself to explain.
As I'm already there, having made the 20 min walk (which is a lot when you have M.E), I decide to go back and ring the buzzer again (having been stood on the street to make the phone call), so I can ask what days the keyworker works when my daughter definitely won't be there, as I don't want this to happen again.
A mum walks past with her child and is instantly let in. Hi, I say to the member of staff who opened the door, I was just wondering... Someone can be heard calling to her from the top of the stairs something in the vein of 'No, shut the door, don't let him in.' And the door is literally shut in my face with not a word from the girl who opened it. I stand there baffled for a moment, and then another member of staff comes out the door with the bins. I politely ask if I can speak to someone. Yes, someone will be down in a minute, she says and continues past me.
Finally someone comes to the door and speaks to me. She tells me what days are best to book an appointment. I thank her and tell her, no problem, she apologises for the mix up and I smile and say not to worry about it, it's no one's fault, and then, still smiling and calm, say goodbye. This was the nicest exchange on their part of the whole thing if I'm honest, although she still said it with a look of sheer panic on her face as if I was about to barge the door wide open, pummel past her, and hold everyone for ransom.
Needless to say, I left that place feeling like rubbish, worthless, and like being my daughter's father doesn't mean anything whether it's the nursery, court, CAFCASS, the GP, or anyone else who keep banging on that things between single mothers and single fathers are equal now, when we all know, that even though things might be a bit different to 20 years ago, that isn't how it is.
Sorry for the rant, but I don't have anyone else to talk to about this right now, not people who can empathiise anyway. Will it be like this when my daughter goes to school next year too?
I am in a similar situation. I missed my daughters first day of school a couple of weeks ago and since I split with my ex partner I have barely been to the school due to the lies my ex has made up about me.
You're right, the system is extremely biased. I have recently been awarded legal aid and I'm looking to get full custody of my children based on the events of the past 9 months. I could lose but I seriously doubt it - I think I've got enough to prove that the kids would be better off in my care. I guess things will depend on the magistrate.
I wouldn't know what to do in your situation - for me the answer is court.
It must be hard for the children (both mine and yours) - do they understand the situation? Do they get that Dad isn't allowed (or made to feel extremely uncomfortable) to come to the school? Once I have a court order hopefully their opinions will change and the school will understand when the full situation is unveiled. Hopefully they will see that the children come first.
I understand that amendments to the children's act have made the children's welfare a priority in the family courts and that they are supposed to have changed in that they look at cases with a view to giving both parents time with their children. Or more importantly that the children get to see both parents. I've asked around but noone seems to be able to provide any statistics to show if there are real world changes since the amendments.
Hopefully the other members will be able to give you advice on what you can do. Personally I would suggest court - if your ex is stopping you seeing the kids at school or becoming involved in their school life then this must be detrimental to their education? Before you can go to court you would need to attend mediation where you could request that you visiting the school is part of your parenting plan. I would also consider talking to the school and asking if they have any reasons for denying access - they are supposed to be unbiased.
Hello richcthomas,
You describe a most unpleasant experience. I hope they teach the children who attend the nursery acceptable behaviour but it sounds, the way they are treating you that they are not well versed in good manners.
If you have parental responsibility and a Court Order for contact they cannot refuse to see you to discuss your child's progress and welfare.
If you do not have a Court Order then it may not be so easy and if the Mother says no they will be guided by her. Particularly if she pays the fees the nursery will say their contract is with her not you therefore it's the Mother they will take instructions from.
When you contact the nursery speak to the Manager don't enter into making arrangements with any of the workers.
I'm not familiar with your situation but if a mother is unreasonable with the father, my personal opinion is that a Court Order is so valuable to a father as it overrides the unreasonable type of mother as a great amount of power is taken away from her. When in possession of a Court Order a father can contact a nursery, school, doctor (you have a right to request the child's medical records), dentist and anyone who is in professional contact with your child and it is their duty to respond favourably towards the father. This can be done without having to seek the mother's permission or suffering refusal of a reasonable request.
Obviously it is far more preferable for parents to work harmoniously together without a Court Order but in the absence of one if the mother becomes unreasonable there is little I believe you can do other than to write to her in a polite and courteous manner stating you would like to attend the nursery / school as it would be of enormous benefit to your child. It is worth a try to see if you get a favourable response.
Your conduct has been impeccable, you handled the situation perfectly..
Be careful as the staff sound to be behaving in a most peculiar manner, they don't appear to know what they are doing or should be doing. They are probably confused as to the arrangements between you and your Ex added to which if she changes her mind on a whim the nursery staff are going to be even more confused. You do not want the police to be called.
Hi
I suppose in one way you have to applaud the nursery for their strict security as there are incidents where one parent isn't allowed to be in contact with a child for safeguarding reasons.
However, in your case, I can completely understand this is ridiculous and has made you feel the way you do.
In the first instance, I would write a letter to the nursery manager detailing these events and pointing out their legal obiligations. Have a look around a website called The Custody Minefield for issues regarding Education and Parental Responsibility.
If this doesn't cover the bigger picture and you don't have a court order in place, it might be something you consider attempting mediation with your ex to discuss the matters and have a clear plan going forward.
Unless there bigger issues afoot, at this stage I wouldn't be advising a court application to resolve issues with the nursery as it sounds like you have some lines of communication open with the mother and attempting mediation is mandatory before applying to the court anyway.
Keep posting and we will do what we can to assist you.
Hi all,
Thanks for your advice.
I have a court order in place with my ex. We have been back to mediation several times since for various issues with my ex trying to restrict or control my contact in one way or another, with the outcome working temporarily until my ex finds a new way to buck the trend. This seems to be her latest.
The nursery manager has since called and apologised, saying it was a lack of communication on their part, and we've arranged a new appointment for next week. For the sake of other single dads that may get or already have been treated like this, I made a point of letting her know that I found the experience humiliating, to which she quite patronisingly responded 'Awwww, bless you...'. I realised then that it wouldn't be worth saying any more on the matter then and there if that was going to be their attitude to what was to me genuinely upsetting and triggered my anxiety levels to rise and stay high for a few days (something I have battled with for years).
I will take a look at my rights in visiting the nursery when my daughter is there though, as I know in her final year there are some opportunities for parents to attend the nursery for various activities, etc, and my ex has already displayed her disregard for me and my daughter spending time together at her nursery when she prevented me from attending a father's day picnic there - as soon as she found out I was planning on attending, the day before, she quickly made arrangements for her fiance to have Emmy for the day (as she was working, and it was clearly a slapdash effort to disrupt my plans). This happened because I, perhaps naively. sent my ex a courtesy txt the day before to let her know I was attending, so she wouldn't get a shock when she came to pick our daughter up. I soon regretted that, but with what happened the other week, I am now thinking that even if I didn't inform my ex that I was attending the nursery for an event or activity my daughter would be part of, the nursery might not let me in anyway, or say they need to call my ex first for permission (even though I have permission to attend when my daughter is not there), to which my ex will obviously deny me access out of bitterness, spite, and jealousy.
I want to be part of my daughter's life as much as possible and it just feels like everyone is doing their best to stop me.
"I want to be part of my daughter's life as much as possible and it just feels like everyone is doing their best to stop me".
That would be a great alternative name for this site.
It's tough and I experienced this myself when I first started attending nursery ect but that was because my ex had been telling everyone what a violent, child abusing kitten killer I was, it was awful and I completely felt like a failed parent and everyone hated me but I took it on the chin held my head high and ignored all the clueless numb nuts (pretty much the same as I acted throughout my court case)
It shocked me at how close knit they all were The nursery staff, my ex, the health visitor, the contact centre manager were al thick as thieves, I felt like I had a massive 52 inch TV on my head by the way they looked at me all the time.
It took a while for them to realise how sound I was and I am a decent parent and I couldn't be more involved in my childs life than I am now, I must admit I want to give them a right hook when they comment on what a decent parent I am but hey ho.
Suffer ignorance and smile I say 🙂
This is exactly how it feels, like they're all in this gullible gang being lead by my ex. I am generally very good at ignoring it these days, and whenever there's trouble or a dodgy look, I remember that I am doing it for my daughter, that she knows that I'm a good parent, and will appreciate it in years to come, and that gets me through. Just sometimes, when there's 6 or 7 nursery staff treating me funny one straight after the other in the space of 10 mins it gets a bit much. Hopefully that was a rare occasion and my next visit will be much smoother. And we've got to remember the truth always prevails with all these things, so whatever awful rumours our exes are spreading about us, if we keeping on just being the great people that we are, everyone will eventually see the light and see through the lies. We have to believe that otherwise we'll go insane.
Absolutely that is the right attitude and you are doing everything properly so carry on as you are mate it will get better trust me 🙂 All the haggs think the sun shines out my backside now and they all realise my ex was full of it, I still haven't got the time of day for any of them mind as you say I keep face just for my daughter 🙂
Thanks for all the advice and comments. I thought I should post an update.
I went along to my rescheduled appointment at the nursery with my daughter's key worker, and she couldn't apologise enough for what happened previously. She even congratulated me on my parenting as my daughter is doing so well. It was like they were playing a completely different record. I hope that will continue, though I know never to hold my breath with these things.
I'd call that a result! Your patience certainly paid off and I see no reason why it shouldn't continue. Great work!
Brilliant man thats great news carry on as you are but remain cautious these people will stab you in the back at the drop of a hat I've realised that as the nursery staff tell me one thing and say another to my ex.