[Solved] controlling ex?

Hi Nokia97,

Welcome to the site.

Your in a situation that many face, and its not a great place to be.

what actions have been taken already?

you mentioned mediation which is a good start, have you looked at or been to court for a contact order?

I think that your view on mediation is a good one it wont help to go in all guns blazing and having a go and it wouldn't get you any where either.

Do you have a solicitor?

Your ex letting your child decide what he does must be a nightmare and will get in the way of your contact unless it's addressed, I think this should be the first point of conversation at mediation.

Darren

Hi

I agree with Darren - the best place to start is with mediation, which you are already doing. If you can get an agreement there, then get it written into a contact order (search through Yoji's posts on doing this) by the court.

I would recommend taking video of your time with your son - play it down a little to your son so that it doesn't cause problems with your ex, but having some evidence of how well your time is together may be useful in the future.

I think your son's time with his friends is very important, but it shouldn't replace his time with you which is also very important - I would expect a court (if it comes to that) will recognise both, so as long as you are reasonable (and I don't think anything you have said is anything other than reasonable), then your ex should be arranging time for both. Children also like routine, so a regular and fixed time with you is important, and also much easier to write into an agreement and contact order.

As for going to court, take a look at yoji's guides to representing yourself, there is no reason why you can't do this, and the cost is then only around £200 , or less if you are eligible for a reduction.

I would see how mediation goes first before considering any other steps, but you also need your ex to realise that you are prepared to go to court (keep all correspondence, texts, etc, and especially any threats she may make) so that she doesn't think she can simply dictate all the terms.

the actions that i have taken is to talk to the ex, and she says he will do it when hes ready. although hes slept once he hasnt since.
when i go to pick him up from school, sometimes hes got a cough or a cold or both, his mum has said to him he doesnt have to come to my house if he doesnt want to, so he wants to go home.
if hes been to school then i think its ok for him to come with me for a while.

the contact agreement is a verbal one between us, finalised in the cafcass report to court in sept 09.
its been like this since then, but my ex controlling things and letting my 5 year old son decide what he wants to do has ot out of control.
i work so i cant afford a solicitor, my ex knows this.
she knows my hands are tied, i feel bullied and controlled, i know i shouldnt but it certainely feels that way.

thanks for your help darren.

going to mediation next month to talk about it.

If you haven't been to court personally I would get the ball rolling and get a formal order in place, still go to mediation as this will help anyway but you would be best to get an order in place.

You don't need a solicitor and as actd has said there is a very good guide here on how to proceed.

Darren

Hi nokia97,

As you don't have a solicitor - I will ask the Coram Childrens Legal Centre to pop by and offer you some advice.

Mediation is the right path to start down because a judge would send you to mediation anyway.

Has Mediation started yet ? if so how is it going ?

Check back over the next couple of days for a response from the CCLC.

Cheers

Gooner

thank you gooner.
mediation hasnt started yet but it will next month.
just before anything else, do you think im being reasonable with my requests?

i do work full time but cant afford a solicitor.

nokia

Personally I feel that the amount of time your son gets to spend with you seems very restricted and must impact on his ability to build a proper relationship with you.

Your request seems very fair to me and would be a good place to start the conversation. You need to keep in mind that you may have to be prepared to accept slightly less than you initially want as that is what mediation is all about. It only works if both parties are prepared to accept a certain amount of give and take.

Gooner

thank you.
i see what you mean.
as i see my son 3 times a week all be it totalling 13 .30 hours a week with no overnights yet which isnt very much.
i live 10 minutes away...........

as you have said i might get less than i asked for......in your opinion as a rough guide (through mediation)
what do you think mediation will offer me? and what do you think i should ask for gooner.
i would like a rough guide in your opinion so i can think about it and digest it and go better prepared.

i know it will only be a guide in your opinion, but i want the best for our relationship moving forward.

thanks again gooner

nokia

I couldn't say really mate - that would all be down to your ex.

Mediation is a process whereby both you and your ex are helped to try to find a solution that you can both agree on, the process would only work if you both are prepared to look to come to an agreement.

hi thanks. well i went to pick my son up from school as i do twice a week, he didnt want to come with me 2day, he said its his choice and told his mum to tell me off. Again this is her supporting him im saying its his choice so thats what he wants. I talked to her and said its not his choice, we make the decisions for him. She said its his choice, so thats that. I said well shall we go to mediation so we can sort out things like this and the rest we have to sort out? She said i dont have to go, i dont have to do anthing i dont want or need to do.(wow, makes me wonder where my 5 year old son gets this......its my choice thing from) lol. I said it says on the end of our last court agreement that.....cafcass advised us to go to mediation if we couldnt agree on things in the future rather than going to court. She said dont threaten me with court, i will have you. I said thats not nice, we cant agree on anything like...picking him up from school on my own...seeing him ever fathers day, alternate christmases, sleeping overnight at my house and going on holiday... Its been like this since sept 09, we shld have moved on. She said well it is his choice on what he wants to do and i wont go to mediation. I said thats a shame. Im only trying to have a lovely relationship with our son. she again said well its his choice, i replied with......he has said in the last week that he wants to sleep over and go on holiday with me...thats his choice as well isnt it. She said no... Its mine. I didnt reply to that as its clear it seems 1 rule for 1 and one for the other. I parted saying mediation will be in touch with you and can you please attend so we can sort this out and move on. She didnt reply, she just got in her car and drove off. .........i cant believe her, ive done nothing wrong except ask for what any father and dad would want, and if i go to court i will (so im told) get what i have asked for. Why oh why do some women do this, and get away with it. Its unbelieveable. Dont know where to go from here except court. shld i talk to the school about picking him up on my own? Is it worth it? will they care? also do the school need to know about his....its my choice...its up to me thing? Am i just wasting my time with all of this. 4 years i have been doing this and all i got is less 15 hours a week with no over nights. I love my son unconditionaly......but 1 thing is for sure.........i will never give up on him..ever

I'm sure other dads who have been through this will be happy to offer their opinion on this mate, But I would suggest you don't give up.

Mediation is the right way to go as long as your ex is willing to take part.

Hi Nokia,

I'll second what gooner says -meditation is basically meeting somewhere in the middle, so your starting point is what you would hope for in an ideal world (being reasonable of course) and then working from there.

thanks guys,

i talked to her again and she wont to mediation. as its clear we cant agree on things and because it says at the bottom of my last court order, she should be made to do mediation.
all this i dont have to attend if i dont want to is ruining communication between us, and makeing her feel in total control is wrong.

who there to hepl dads like me.........no-one except court.

im very dissapointed in the system,

i want to move things on with my son and he and me are being controlled by his mum who refuses to move forward.

what a sad system it is. im disgusted.

I can imagine how you feel mate - it must seem that everything is stacked against you. All you want to do is spend some more time with your son.

Don't try to rush her, are the mediation people going to officially invite her to attend or have they left it to you ? If they are going to invite her then don't force the issue any more let them deal with it. She may react differently to an official invite.

Gooner

hi gooner. they will officially invite her, i have asked them to. when all this started 4 years ago she refused to go to mediation stating it was a waste of time and now she says she doesnt have to go. like i said it says on the bottom of our last court order that cafcass advised us to try it. but no good where she is concerned.

i guess thats it. im gutted... but i will be here for my son. im not going anywhere. hes only 5, so lets see what happens.

hopefully someone on here will give me hope and advise so i can see a light at the end of the tunnel. fingers crossed

thanks again gooner

Don't give in man. You sound down at the moment and I can understand why. It will get better - have faith and don't let the system beat you.

There is a little five year old lad that needs his dads influence and guidance and that is never going to change.

Sounds like your ex is like mine....its all got to be Her way or no way!!

proved her a liar in court on the 9th Dec, the Judge ripped in to her and pushed mine to a final contested hearing that he will over see again. so not looking good for her. Her legal team got her to relax and allow contact to resume now she's been proven a liar....and yes i saw my little boy for the first time in over 6 months for 2hrs on 18th Dec (he new partner was there) but at least it looked a start.

now she's dumped her legal team and is going to represent herself like i did.........basically her legal team have told her she's wrong and has to tow the line now in court....but she already started the delaying tactics again....she's not let me see my little boys since then because she wont agree to putting down in writing and agreeing to planned times and days i can see him.....i only want it in writing so we all know where we stand and we can make our plans around them.
She won't do that because thats what i want to happen.....its not her dictating to me and controlling everything as she always has.

Shes lost the battle but still trying to keep her control over me by using my little boy still.

Never give up, never give in...........fight for you child, they need us dads every bit as much with such nasty women!!!

Dear Nokia97,

Thank you for your enquiry. As you are experiencing a range of difficulties in relation to contact with your child you could apply for contact order, however the courts will want to see that you have exhausted all efforts to negotiate with the mother. Mediation can often provides a successful avenue. If you want to know more about mediation you could contact National Family Mediation on 0300 4000 636 for further information.

If your child’s mother refuses to negotiate with you or mediation fails to provide you with a satisfactory outcome, then you may want to consider taking the matter to court.

A contact order is where the court will decide what access and under what conditions you should have with your children. They will decide what is in the child’s best interest using the welfare checklist. This will create a legally binding order enforceable against the mother if awarded by the courts, and in most cases the courts facilitate contact unless there are exceptional reasons not to.

To apply for a contact order you could use a solicitor or represent yourself. In order to represent yourself, we would direct you to HMCS website to download the C100 application form. Additionally, you can download guidance notes called CB1 and CB3. There is a fee approximately around £200 - £250 for making the application which covers the proceedings.

The court process will consist of a directions hearing where the judge will decide what steps are required and it will give an opportunity for the court to do fact finding. This will be followed by the final hearing allowing the parties to put forward their proposals and objections. The whole process can take 6 to 12 months, however the court has discretion to make interim decisions to allow contact whilst the case proceeds.

For all proceedings under the Children Act 1989 when the court considers a question of the child's upbringing the child's welfare is the court's paramount consideration.

The factors include:
a) The ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in light of his age and understanding);
b) His physical, emotional and / or educational needs;
c) The likely effect on him of any change in his circumstances;
d) His age, [censored], background and any characteristics of his, which the court considers relevant;
e) Any harm which he has suffered or is at risk of suffering;
f) How capable each of his parents and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, is of meeting his needs;
g) The range of powers available to the court under the Children Act 1989 in the proceedings in question.

If you have any further question you can contact us on 0808 802 0008, or use our web chat service by visiting http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/index.php?page=web_chat.
Kind Regards,

CORAM CHILDREN’S LEGAL CENTRE

dad-i-d, sound just like mine. i will never give in,
my ex just likes the control thing. she likes being there at every step. like picking him up from school she cant understans why i asked her not to go there as its my time with him, but now she has told him, when daddy comes to pick me up he has to have a chat with her 1st.

and im sure as he grows up he will work it out for himself.
im not like her dad who left her and her mum and sisiter at the age of 4 for another woman.
i think she thinks im like him and i will give up after a while.
that will never happen. im here for him for the rest of my days. i will never give up. im too strong for that,

hi guys,

well i went to pick up my son from school yesterday as usual and he didnt want to come with me.
he told his mum that he told me he said he didnt want daddy to pick him up. he never told me this at all. i understand that sometimes he is busy after school sometimes, but his mum should support me on him coming with me after school on the days im meant to have him. instead she just says its up to him. we all know its wrong that he should make these decisions as it will only get worse.

but he did tell me on saturday when i did pick him.up, i didnt promp this conversation from him at all, he just said it all on his own. .......he said daddy. my best friend (his name) doesnt see his dad because his friends dad was horrible to his mum so they dont live together anymore now. that is not very nice to hear from a nearly 5 year old. i dont know why he said it but he just did. i reasured him we will see each other and his friends dad will see his friend
wether he was told that or he heard a conversation between his mum and her friend at her house.
but to tell me that i think is shocking. now i dont know where i stand when i go to pick him up lately. very worrying. who knows what hes thinking now because its his best friend at school and his mum is very good friends with his best friends mum. what to do now. worried worried worried.

nokia

Hi nokia97
i have been reading your thread over the past week and can really relate to it as im sure many reading it can to.
I just wanted to say (it may not seem much but) been thinking about you and your son, keep strong and focused for both of you.

My Solicitor at the begining told me this "Its a Marathon not a Sprint, and its Marathon Runners who Attain the Highest Accolade in their Sport, through their Endurance and Focus on their Goal" Im not sure if he read this quote somewhere (i dont think its one of Eric Cantonas seagul following the fishing boat poems 😆 ) or if he made it up himself as a bit of motivational food for thought but it gives me the kick up the backside i need , as when I feel i cant go on or feel like giving up i just think about who I am doing it for and about the Highest Accolade I can acheive and thats the loving normal everyday relationship with our kids which they deserve.

hi, thanks clc.

as i have been to court with cafcass and on sept 09 casfcass and myself and the ex came to the decision that we would sort things out between us as our son grows up.
i had run out of money at the time and my solicitor at the time said things will change and warned me that she would see me again. however

as i have a court order that says myself and the ex will sort things out between us.............when i go to court again, will it just be an ammendmant to the existing order? or

do i have to go through all that again?

thanks dag.

i believe me i know its a marathon, thanks for your outlook.
my goal is to have a normal relationship with my son, also on the other hand his mum must let it happen and not act so childish, preventing things moving forward, like growing up herself.

i will get there in the end, i got no money, ive got nothing. but i have got strength, i have gor the will, i have got the determination. but most of all i have the love for my son.

i suppose in 15 years time when im having a pint with him all this will b a thing of the past. i look forward to that.

manipulation and other things aside by his mum frying his brain, at some point i hope she finds happiness and moves on, i really mean that because if she does then most things will be ok. if she doesnt she will be a very unhappy woman.

who knows what the future holds.

just ent tp pick him up as usuall today and when i went near him he just would run away saying stop following me. I was so embarrased to hear your son say that. His mum just said daddys here. I looked at her and said hepl, she just said its his choice. So 2 more tiimes went to speak to him and he ran away again, he wldnt even give me a kiss. His mum didnt support me at all. Is it a phase hes going through? Does he think he can really act like that because its his choice. I honestly dont know what i have done wrong. We had a fantastic time on saturday. And now this happens and its getting more frequent by the week. sholud i stop going to pick him up? If that happens will he think im ignoring him? Will he stop wanting me to pick him up from school? Will it be like this when i go and pick him up on saturdays. His mum wont drop him off if i stop going to get him from school, so what do i do now? Please help me im lost this time. What the [censored] have i done wrong.? my gut feeeling is to carry on going to pick him up from school as i have done for the llast 4 months, and this isnt the 1st time hes done this. help and advice on this would be great please. it might be a phase hes going through but i feel heart broken as hes never been that bad before, it like being rejected for no reason.

Hi

As a matter of interest, if things went as they should, what is your normal routine with your son once you've picked him up?

i bring him home, weread his homework book, but more often than not he says he wants to read it with his mum the next day in the morning, so i get home by 3.40, i change him out of his school uniform and he watches his programes while playing. Sometimes he wants me to join in playing games and things, if hes busy on his own playing i get his tea done. Then afters...chocolate or something with me sat on the chair together and while hes eating his chocolate he often fusses me by cuddling or telling me he loves me. Also sometimes he likes just sitting with me. Tea is at the same time everytime, then after tea we play more games. He often invites me to play with him, we play snooker or train games or act out scenes from toy story with buzz and woody. Then when its time to go home we play the cd that he likes in the car. I hand him over to his mum and more often than not she asks whatwe have done, where we have been, who hes seen, and what hes eaten. I tell her what she asks. Its been this way for months. But lately his friend at school (the one he knows his dad was horrible to his mum) his mum and his friends mum socialise together so i guess my boy spends alot of time with him, but not on my days, well it never used to be. I also know they go to each others house for tea sometimes. I understand hes growing up, but all of a sudden to act like this is very strange. Hes nearly 5. Ive been doing this for over 4 years now, we have a fantastic relationship, but like his mother says, its up to him what he wants to do.......its his life......his decisions. She actually said that. after school in good weather we go out to the park or to town or round the block on his scooter or bike or trike or electric car. We are busy most of the time. Also on occasions i ask him shall we go out somewhere, he says no, i just want to stay at daddys door. As you can see we do alot, so all of a sudden to act like this. Its very upsetting, i just cant figure it out. have you any suggestions actd?

Well it seems that he's found something else he wants to do, very likely encouraged by your ex when you're not there, so it's a matter of finding something that he looks forward to doing that he can't do anywhere else (aside from seeing you). It's quite a commitment, but how do you fancy a pet? I was thinking along the lines of a mouse or hamster as they are relatively short lived and you're going to be the one looking after it most of the time (pets at home have an area where they have small animals that need rehoming, so you could rescue one of these). Even better, when you have your son at the weekend, you could go out with him to choose it, and then hopefully he'll want to come back after school to play with it.

Failing that, at the weekend, ask him if there's something he really wants to do when you pick him up from school, some special treat that he can look forward to so he wants to come with you during the week.

thanks actd.

i have tried that a few weeks ago when he wanted a dog, hes gone from cat to hamster to gerbil now wants a dog because in his words you cant play with a cat or hamster.

i think i will try it again on saturday if he comes with me, i cant afford a dog but i would love one anyway.
then theres the .......your bribing him from the ex, that came last time when he told her he wanted to sleep at my house because i said when and if you sleep we will be able to go to thomas land and swimming. he told her and she said i was bribing him. ha ha. i wasnt its just her being horrible as normal.

when he comes to my house he always says he wants to sleep and go on holiday with me. hes told his mum these 2 statement and hes told me mummy says daddys an naughty boy. just ignore him if he ask again. so that says her mind set anyway.he also says he wants me to pick him up from school, but when i get there its a different story as youve heard.

would you be so kind to ask other friends on here you know what i could do about getting back on track again.
i know lots of dads have got lots of problems and mine is minor compared to others,
but any ideas would be so very welcome.
one things for sure you cant say i havnt tried.

thanks

nokia

>mine is minor compared to others

Not minor, just different and equally important.

Bribing isn't necessarily wrong if the intention is genuine and the incentives are healthy - your ex no doubt does the same, but with different incentives, and she won't call it bribery no doubt.

As for the pets, a dog is a long term commitment, and not cheap (I have two), so you need to figure out a compromise - if you want a dog, try going to your local dog rescue centre and ask about fostering a dog, if I recall correctly, this basically means that you look after a dog until a permanent home can be found. The advantage to the centre is that it frees up kennel space, but I think they pay for any medical care, I'm not sure about food. The advantage to you is that you may have a different dog every few weeks so there's always a novelty factor for your son, and if you find it's too much in the future, you aren't committed for 15 years.

I can empathise with your situation totally (see my posts!! - please note I am female and it's my boyfriends daughter we are fighting for, just to ease any confusion :whistle: )

My partners ex does exactly the same thing to him. If Cafcas are involved why are they letting her dictate what your son does? In my dealing with them and the court/legal system, that is completely nuts and should be addressed.

I agree with the guys that keeping messages etc is KEY!

I am not sure on the legalities, but if you both have "parental responsibility" that she cannot stop you taking your son away on holiday, as you cannot stop her. It's also my belief that it is in the child's best interest to see both parents, this is something you can use against her in the future. I know it may not be ideal, but if you are concerned that there maybe emotional abuse going on you CAN report it to Social Servces who will investigate (yes, I know there is a stigma, but they can help as it creates a paper trail)

The "trog" as we call her uses the daughter's friends as weapons, they arrive at times or stay over when the Trog feels threatenend. It may seem that your ex knows your son wants to be with you and enjoys being with you, but needs to feel that she is not "losing her son" (does that make sense?)

The courts are VERY long and drawn out, BUT they do get there eventually. We have been succesful in getting contact reduced due to the trog's behaviour (and it has been and continues to be horrendous behaviour!)

You can check with the school, but it's my belief that as a "parent" you have the right to collect the child. We have been through this, the school should check with their legal team, the repsonse from our school was "Anyone can collect the child, we do not vet who they go home with as they would be there ages (and my partners child is 8 so she knows who is who) although that sounds shocking, it was the easiest way to type it!! Unless there is court order in place she cannot stop you. As long as you are polite and dipolomatic with the school/playschool. Be aware: She could call the police if "she" felt there could be a breach of the peace.... (been there done that and it's not pretty!!)

Have you checked your eligibility for legal aid? You can work and still get help....

Don't know if any of this will help?..... Keep your chin up - you sound the better person.

thanks tiredoffighting. Some good advice there..........i need a little advice on this 1 please, anybody in fact............. Last june or july my son was at my house and he threw something across the room, i told him off and he threw a right paddy. He started kicking and punching me (totally out of character for him and he hasnt done it since.) anyway i put him on the naughty seat and b4 i l.et go of him he was at me again, so he got upset and wanted to go home. I took him home and he told his mum what happened and i told her also, he added that i pushed him, i told her i didnt, i just put him on the naughty seat and he was at me again, i guess he thought i pushed him as i held him while trying to kick and punch me....so the next day when he was ment to come to my house, he wouldnt come as he kept on about me pushing him, i told him and his mum i didnt push him, so i came away feeling let down by her for not supporting me and my son lying. Anyway the next day he was going on holiday so i went round to his house, he was in the back garden playing in the pool. He took one look at me and said im not coming coz u pushed me, i said to him and infront of her mum and her mums fella, sorry son if you think i pushed you, so we scrumpled it up and threw it in the bin. (thats how we deal with dissagreements by scrumpling it up and throwing it in the bin) ani swear on my life and my sons life i did not push him, i would never do that. Never. After he came back from holiday everything was normal, recently my son wont see me because he sees everything i say that he doesnt like as......your arguing daddy and he wont come to my house now. He says hes busy or he just doesnt want to come. My ex as ive said before is letting him make up his mind on what he wants to do, this has slowly been getting worse over the last few weeks, when she dropped him off today he wouldnt even get out of his seat, i wld say come on help me with mario, he wld just say stop arguing daddy, she said go with daddy and you can come home when you want to, i askkd her not to say that as that leaves him in control again dictating when he goes home. She said thats the deal he wants. So i took her to oneside out of earshot of my son. I said can you please be more positive with him as hes lost respect for me and rules the roost now by saying when he wants to go home and it has to stop. We are the adullts. So she mentioned that last june he wldnt see me for a while coz i pushed him. I again said i didnt and i appologised and threw it in the bin coz thats what we do. She said theres more to that than meets the eye. I said there isnt coz i didnt push him,i just appologised if he saw it as a push and happiily said it in front of her mum and her mums fella, but the ex is digging up old stuff, nearly a year ago now, and she said she fed up with trying to get my son to see me. He simply wont go to your house an d thats that. She said shes not going to bother as its gettiing on her nerves. If he says he doesnt want to go then sheshe cant male him. I thought why would she bring up old stuff of nealrly a year ago? And say that there must be more to that thhan meets the eye. The truth as ive told her seems to be in one ear and out of the other. Since then up untill the last few weeks everything has been fine....but more and more now hes calling the shots and shes not going to bother even asking or telling him to come with me. what do i do now? If this carries on i wont see my son during the week now as he doesnt want me to pick him up from school and he doesnt want her to drop him off. I havnt got a clue what to do......do i still go to the house to pick him up as normal? Do i stop going as last saturday she has taken to phoning me up now so he can tell me he doesnt want to come to my house. Hes 5 and doing this already. I feel im loosing my son, we do so much when hes here, but lately its so hard to get him here, is it just a phase hes going through? I tell you one thing....i wont give up on him, no matter how long this takes. Hes my son and i love him unconditionally. Help and advice please would be fantastic. N

Upon reading that I asked myself: Has your son seen someone else be "pushed" else how would he know what it means? I really do not beleive that a 5 yr old makes the decisons, it totally goes against what cafcas and the courts would say/advise etc.

My partners ex mentioned in a call recently that their daughter had told them "Daddy told me off and dragged me by the wrist up the stairs" he didn't, she is "stirring". Cafcas will tell you kids are pleasers, they please which ever parent they are with. We deal with this ALL the time and it's a nightmare!!!!!!!!

I personally think court is your best option. It's perfectly clear that there is emotional abuse going on. A child should not be put into your son's position. Your ex is clearly using him as a pawn and that court will condemn her for that. There is an article that was produced by the court stating "rules" for how parents should treat their children.

Right just dug it out from the reams of rainforest we have here: Can't remember where it came from but.... Judiciary of England and Wales Midland Region Family Judges and Magistrates "WHAT THE FAMILY COURT EXPECTS FROM PARENTS - THE COURT CONSIDER THAT THESE GUIDELINES APPLY TO ALL CHILDREN AND ALL PARENTS. PLEASE DONT THINK THAT YOUR CASE IS AN EXCEPTION IF YOU ARE A PARENT THINKING OF ASKING FOR A COURT ORDER" Really hope you can find it online.... it's really handy!!!!

I think you could well represent yourself for what my partner pays (£600 a day for a barrister). It's a shame that your ex needs to use your son, I think if that was me at the school gates and he refuses to go with you, maybe speak to your son and say that you would really like to spend time with him, but if he feels uncomfortable then you'll leave it till next time?....Kinda respecting "his wishes" and showing you aren't "arguing"? I bet the poor little fella has been so brainwashed that he feels he has to please his mum over you.

We found that the trog pumps my partners child for info ALL THE TIME, child blatantly lies to her mum about what has happend even accusing her teachers of stealing money! (she is 8!!!!!) We find that (and have been advised by barristers etc) that if the child says something like "mummy says x y z" you acknowledge comment without facial expression or agast eyebrows, but then subtley change subject "Oh look Thomas has fallen of the track, can you put him back"...... Don't slate ex, if anything big her up! because he will repeat it back to her. We say stuff like "oh your hair is lovely like mummys" ( a lie) but when child is pumped by ex she never has anything bad to report back.....Which is an amazing feeling when the ex works out you aren't slating her.

I will say: We have been told "kids work it out for themselves" THEY DON'T!!!!!!!! He is in his "sponge years" (where he soaks up EVERYTHING!) where all this will only confuse him. My ex's daughter is awaiting counscelling and self harms...... She is really messed up. All we can do is support her. I think the most frustrating thing is that the daughter BELIEVES EVERYTHING mother says, but does not listen to us. Have you ever tried talking to Parentline Plus? They have been really helpful for us.......

hi thanks for your help,

after chatting with the ex again last night, she is astonished he wont come to my house unless he fancies doing something.
you should see my house, its full of toys and games and pens and pencils and reading books and games. there is so much to do, yet he still doesnt want to come. i still cant understand it. she says she still cant understand it either, she says stop blaming her as its not her fault he doesnt want to come to my house. then goes on about me not doing enough with my son. i told her we do so much and more often than not he likes staying indoors.

yesterday when i had him he only came in when i said i have some batman pictures to colour in, he got out of the car and i said we can see what you want for tea, and he said your argiung daddy and got back in.
he came out again when the deal was he goes home when its light before tea. he has been like this for the last few weeks now.
very negative toward me, and looses interst in anything quickly. even getting upset because he wants his batman suit and its at his mums. he wanted me to phone her to bring it over but as it was tea time i took him home, so upon getting home he told his mum about him wanting to phone but daddy argued with me and i got upset.

i explained to her time was going on and as he wanted his batman costume and he didnt want tea with me i brought him home. nothing out of the ordinary.......well the look she gave me. i said goodbye and left.

the ex is adamant she tells him to come to my house during the week all the time. to be fair she does tell him in front of me,
but something isnt right. my son doesnt seem his normal self.
i might go to the school next week and have a chat and see how he is.
im definately not happy with him, but on the other hand i cant force him and wouldnt force him to come with me on my times and days i see him.

i must say when i have gone to pick him up from school he does run away from me when i go towards him, but i also think that hes showing off to his friend who is there with him.
sometimes when i have said do you want me to pick you up, he says yes.
then when i get there he saysd oh no daddys here, his mum still goes and he says that to her when he sees me there. i have asked her not to go but she refuses, maybe it was something to do with that, now he thinks he rules the roost coz i ask him to come with me from school when i go and pick him up and he messess me about.

when i do see him i ask him why he does that at school when i go and get him. he either says he was joking or playing. very strange thing to say. but he does it for his mum as well i think.

i will go to court as i cant see a way forward and i cant see what court will do,

what will they do?

it still wont make my son come to my house?

stumped big time

Although I have no experience of a child (but, I am 7 months pg with my first, partners 2nd child!) I think that his behaviour is not "normal". What would the court do? In my experience: A contact order will be made, where you HAVE to agree on contact taking place, in front of the judge and both parties. This will mean that if either of you fail to comply, it would mean a breached order and could result in community srve etc (serious stuff!) so, I would have thought although expensive to go to court, you would have the upper hand as you comply and want contact.

Therefore is she does not promote a healthy relationship between you and your son SHE will be at fault and not having the "best interest" of your son as her priority. It will be your ex's respnsibility to "make" the child attend for contact. We had a situ when partners child didnt want to go, stood crying in hall, we had to involve police and our solicitor (so we had an independant witness) and my partner refused to take her fr contact citing she was so emtionally distressed that she would harm herself if made to go. He was in breach of said "order". It's not easy.

I think that court paperwork does make a difference because there are consequences for the adults: It's not just [censored]-for-tat and he-said-she-said... It's official!

Have you tried or do you have something called "Time for you" provided by Relate? they do a mediation type of thing! between adults who's relatonships have broken down and involve a child. You have to pay, but an option? At least if you went to court you can say you have exhausted ALL options. Have you chatted with your last Cafcas officer? Asked their advice?

I do agree with you and did think this last night after last post. I do think your son has learned that he can play you both (they are VERY good at that) He won't even comprehend that he is hurting you as he does not understand the situ. I found a really good library book called "Mum and Dad Glue" I would have thought this suitable for his age (if you read to him) made my partners daughter stop and think and realise to a degree what was going on.

All you can be is yourself. The court process is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong! and trust me, as a woman she will drag up ANYTHING from the past no matter how petty!!!!!!! If there continues to be a flashpoint at the school, maybe knock it on the head and just have him delivered to you. This stops his control over you at the gate and then he is not in a position to try and get one over you, because he has come to expect this "drama" at the gate, which ultimately gives them both power and makes you look like a "whatever"!!!!!! Maybe once he realises you are not playing "ball"he might think differently?.... Likewise when he is with you, don't take him back early as this shows you ar caving in to HIS demands.... Therefore giving him MORE control! Just say quietly and at his eye-level. No we are gonna have dinner first and pudding, then go home. If he has a paddy - TOUGH! Take back control!....... Ignore the paddy btw!

I know full well what my partners ex say to my partners child and it's not pretty, she blackmails, threatens, swears and makes little one feel guilty... All it takes with a child is "Don't you love mummy or daddy anymore?" to guilt trip them, then it's a slippy rope to controling the child and twisting their mind. I am no doc, I am no parent (techinically) I can only speak from personal experience. Trust me it personal when you are 14 wks pregnant and threatend and harrassed when doing your shopping with your partners child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not only by the her, but by her partner!......