[Solved] HELP!!!

Hi Demo and welcome

This is pretty bad to say the least. I'm not sure what you next steps are on this. I will ask our experts from both CCLC and FRG to pop on and see if they can give you any advice.

Thanks

A little calmer a lot more worried and a little happier about my daughter.
I now know where she is ( with her aunty) which is the best place for her right nowbut.
They are going through the courts to adopte her and is it the best for her or not hopefully when i speak to their case worker i will get a bit better idea.
My son really worries me as from what little i have been told the family and children have decided it would cause more harm to him if he was removed from his mother.
Yes i have contacted a family law practice and am waiting for their specilast to return my call.
If i decided i wanted to fight for my children what help can i get (e.g. i am living in a single bedroom house so they could not live here)

what a difference a day makes
tomorrow i meet c&f my opening comments are these
Firstly let me say I am not here to cause any more pain there has been more than enough pain within this family, I am not here to be vindictive or try to hurt people.
I am here because I love two wonderful children and information has come to my attention that makes me very concerned.
And if THEY want me to, I want to help them.
REMEMBER I DO NOT WANT TO CAUSE PAIN TO ANYONE
Why did I stop contact 3 years 8 months and 8 days ago on the 8th June 2008?
Protection for myself and my children and to ensure at a later date I would be in a fit state to be there to help/be there them if they needed or wanted me.
The relationship between my ex and myself had been a very destructive one certainly for me and when it finished I was a destroyed man.
Then it got dirty
My ex like many other mothers used the children as a weapon and as I am certain you have witnessed many times before in other cases when fathers try to keep up contact with their children suddenly they find that either activities are already planned or one or more children are not available. This she has experience of herself from her past husband and I have witnessed first-hand the hurt it caused her so I know she full well knew how much pain such actions create.
Even today ten years later I have no protection from the hurt she can cause me with such simple things as agreeing on a Friday that I could see the children on the Sunday, but come Sunday when I arrived at the shop to pick them up suddenly finding they were either not at home or that only one child would be present the other generally my daughter would either have a show arranged or other activities that she would prefer to do.
So what has changed?
Simply put the CSA when I contacted them about another matter informed me my daughter has been removed from the family home and that was done 8 months ago!!
Why when it clearly states both parents should be involved as early as possible was I kept out of the loop which is clearly against government guidelines?
The children and my hopes and wishes.
My daughter
If her aunty is going for a Special Guardianship Order for my daughter I will support that application as perhaps to her surprise I know she will be a fantastic aunty . It was one of my private hopes when the relationship broke down that she would take the children. However I will oppose any adoption type measures for many reasons including and not limited to first and foremost both children will lose out they will lose each other as siblings, my daughter will lose her mother permanently and my ex would lose what I think may be her one hope left she has my daughter and that at some date she may be able to reclaim the thing she loved most in life when we were together. And of course I will lose one of my children. In the end the harm from adoption would not provide one added benefit (over a Special Guardianship Order) either to the children or either natural parent whilst creating massive hurt to all. That is why I will fight any such action with every ounce of strength.
My Son
I am surprised my daughterl was removed yet an even younger and more fragile boy was left in such a situation. But perhaps the one thing his aunty said by mistake to me says most. “If she loses her son it will destroy her” she would lose her last child.
Remember I do not want to hurt anyone I would like to try to help my children.
With my ex most would think now is your chance to strike back, get some pay back you are due it, she put you through enough suffering but I remember this She was there when I was not so no matter what I think of the person I must respect her for that if nothing else so I will do nothing to try to hurt what must already be a very hurt person. I wish her well and hope she finds a way to be the mother she always could have been. my son is under the supervision of you and I have to hope and trust you will not fail him again like you did in 2003-4 when I complained about what was a 2-3 year old being beaten by his mother according to his sister “until he screamed”
Myself
I wish I had not decided to break off contact in 2008 it was the hardest decision I have ever made but I made it because in my opinion it was the best for the children and myself. Who knows if I am right or wrong but I am here and want to help my children. With my daughter I have no fears if she wants to see me her aunt will facilitate such contact and I would never fear turning up and either her not being available or some other problem just suddenly cropping up. I unfortunately will never be able to say that of my ex however with the help of yourselves I could see a situation that would ensure guaranteed contact and something my son wants dearly contact with his dad. I am not looking for unsupervised contact infact I want supervised contact at least in the short term to ensure I have the help and advice needed to ensure he gets what he needs from me. Of course I am asking for contact with my two children but also understand it is up to them to decide if they want to see me and if they don’t I would respect that decision as long as they knew they always had that option open to them.
Conclusion
No matter how bad things are there are always good points to take from such situations. My daughter is in a place where she will be far better prepared for adult life and I am certain she will be all the better for that. My ex I hope she is taking this chance to change and find and exploit those things in her that make her great and that she finds a way to be happy and care for those closest to her. But I worry about my little boy. I hope I can play a part in both Childrens lives but realised there was a chance they may never want to see me again when I broke off contact. It was the risk I took to enable me to get to where I am in my life and to be ready and waiting until they want contact.

Hopes for the meeting.
I don’t want to know what happened it helps nothing and only builds up anger that would make taking the right decisions harder.
I want to know what is happening now how are both children how is schooling going is my son as bright yet as I know he will be? Is CC still riding?
I need to know what help my son is getting and how he is protected when behind closed doors (remember I have pulled her off one of her other children).
And of course the promise from yourselves to abide by the governments recommendation’s to involve both parents in the process from the earliest time. Something you have omitted for far too long.

questions
When did Families and children become involved with the family----------
opinions please

it is this bad and worse
THEY NEED HELP
I AM ASKING!!!!

hi demo

how did the meeting go today?

Dear Demo,

We have read through your post and it seems that you have issues regarding contact, social services involvement, and concerns about the whereabouts of your child.

Due to the different issues involved in your case, I would advise that you contact our legally qualified advisors through our online web chat service to discuss the matter in more detail.

The link to our web chat service is:

http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/index.php?page=web_chat

KIND REGARDS,

CORAM CHILDREN’S LEGAL CENTRE

Great
Sorry i did start posting yesterday but a crash on my computer ensured i lost my post and other things meant i had no time to recompose it.
I have decided if other forum users don't object to continue to post my experiences so others who may well feel like i did 4 days ago may see there is hope.
I still have problems to overcome and also need to find a decent lawyer who will help under legal aid but more of that later...

I continue
Firstly instead of 2 SW there was only one (as the other and current SW was on call and had been called out).
I ensured i wrote all i wanted to say (as in the post from nearly 2 days ago which was a copy paste and remove idents from that document) Boy am i glad i did that never trust yourself to say all you want and need to say in such meetings. Put it into a document and ensure you take it with you it ensures you have everything you need and can ensure the meeting is focused on your immediate worries concerns and not on other matters.
As their was just one SW i decided i would not risk saying what i wanted to but would give him the document to read.
After a lot of SW head nodding and surprised looks he commented i wish every family member could do this.
Most is far better than i thought those few days ago and i have to thank dadtalk for being here when all you want to do is scream.
Sorry about the first post i stand by every word but it was that scream when you have far too many worries and far too few answers.
The SW confirmed what i thought Mrs U could only see their hard work going up in flames and me creating havoc and trying to grab the children (something that would be very hard to defend against and which would without a doubt hurt everyone).
F&C have said they will support me with contact and want me to go to the court when the SGO is heard and at that time include a contact order. They will talk to Mrs U and hopefully both show here what i wrote and confirm if they go for an SGO i will support them and well you have read the thread so know what they will say.
They have said expect a call on Monday about contact and that they want to start such contact ASAP and before the contact order :woohoo:
C&F have my contact details now so cant ignore me, Mrs U who i hope has calmed down (the phone call to her was everything i expected and very sharp but it was how i found out she had my daughter :cheer: ) and she will be passed both my contact details and a copy of the document too (as i said to the SW she will not want to contact me but she will have too because of the children).
Best of all the SW has said Ms T (the mother) will be omitted from the contact part (in so much as she will not be the one ensuring contact with my son happens). We both hope Mrs U her sister will be the contact and she will never allow Ms T to do what she has done and she wont let me not turn up either :woohoo:
So now we wait till Monday and hopefully more information and perhaps a meeting with the current case worker.
My main concern right now is finding near Aylesbury a good family lawyer who will work for legal aid.
Because while agreeing to an SGO is simple the contact order and i want to add PR too to ensure i have a few more legal rights will require a lawyer.
Top tips so far

1 you have just found out some information that worries you but have no way of contacting the other party or of getting more information. search on the website for somewhere to help even better you are reading this so you are in the right place so POST it will allow you to feel like you are starting to make progress.

2 never trust you will say all you want at an important meeting from memory you won't and you will most likely also get distracted and say things you should not say. So write it down print it off and take it with you. That way if you say your piece or let them read it first you set the agenda for the meeting thus ensuring needless information is not said and time is not wasted and even worse what you needed to say was not omitted.

3 get a lawyer you will need one even if it is to just check what you are doing is legally what you wanted/needed to be doing and not what you misunderstood it as.
More to follow but as i have posted if anyone knows a great family lawyer who will do legal aid work in Aylesbury he has a customer waiting.

Edit add:
Just seen the post above this one and will be contacting them.
Edit add add
Top tip 4
If its between 8AM and 8PM and you simply must know legally something about the situation RIGHT NOW! try the childrens legal center (see above post for details) its not only for children its for all connected with families with children. And if you are at your wits end they will be able to help.
They have confirmed i am going in the right direction and that what i think is correct, and given some great advice.

hi Demo

Sounds like you're starting in the right direction, and your tips are spot on. I'd keep asking the CCLC for advice for the moment, once you have a solicitor they aren't able to offer advice.

Keep posting on here as it's always helpful to other dads, and it means we can offer you more help.

Thanks actd
I am still in the information gathering phase (i think)
I still do not really believe this place i am in, is just 5 days old.
So much hope so much fear and still so much hurt about things i don't want or need to know about right now, lets worry about those later on.
It looks far better than 4 days ago but is still a mountain of crags and abbesses.
I will tread slowly and softly for i am a father and i only want to help those i love (only a parent in my position will ever understand the real meaning of this line and they will KNOW without doubt).

Hi Demo,

I’m Suzie, the advisor at Family Rights Group (FRG) who ‘actd’ referred to. Just to let you know, FRG is a specialist organisation advising people who are involved with Children’s Services (CS), the new name for social services. I’m sorry it has taken a little while to get in touch with you and reply to your thread.

I’m sorry that you are in this distressing situation. You are right that, as the children’s father, CS has a duty to you involve you from the time they get involved whether or not you have parental responsibility (PR) i.e. decision making ability for the children. It might have been an error on their part or it might have been mum withholding your contact information and CS having no other means of obtaining it. From now on, you should be fully informed of everything.

You say that the children were removed from mum’s care. Do you know whether this was with mum’s agreement or with a court order? Does CS have a court order now? This is likely to be an Interim Care Order (ICO) but might already be a full Care Order (CO) or Supervision Order. Alternatively, are the children subject to child protection plans? I can advise you about these things in more specific detail if you’d like me to once you answer these questions. In the meantime you might want to have a look at the advice sheets on our website and pick out the ones that are most helpful to you.

Finding a Solicitor
You mention that you are looking for family/children law solicitor. I presume you have looked at the Law Society’s find a solicitor website. If you haven’t I would recommend you do but we are not allowed to recommend particular solicitors. However, I would recommend that, if possible, you find someone who is on the Children Panel, as this is like a quality mark to say those solicitors have a certain amount of expertise and experience in this area. It tells you this on the Law Society website.

Special Guardianship Orders (SGO)
Regarding the SGO that the children’s aunt is applying for, this is an order to say the child/children will live with her and she will have PR for them until they are 18 (unless the order is brought to an end by a Judge sooner). The PR that she is given when the SGO is made means that she can make decisions herself without involving the parents, except for a few major decisions. Despite this, I think you are right to get advice about applying for a PR order at the same time as the contact. For more information about this, please have a look at our what SGOs mean for birth parents advice sheet.

Contact
I just want to clarify a couple of points you raise about contact. First, the SW has said mum won’t be responsible for ensuring it happens. The SW can only guarantee this if CS have an ICO/CO as they don’t have PR otherwise and ultimately then the decision about contact is mums – she can of course be overridden be a court order but mum cannot be forced to allow contact without an order. If CS does have an order then they can decide who has contact with the children. Likewise the children’s aunt will only have the overriding decision about contact once the SGO is in place.

I hope this is helpful. If you do have anymore questions please get back in touch.

Good luck and best wishes

Suzie

Well its two weeks on.
I have had some hope and lots of disapointment mainly from children and families which should really be named mother and daughters the rest go hang.
I have been promised a number of phonecalls etc over the last two weeks but all have never happened.
When i try contacting the SW's who are responcible for my two children i always get they are in a meeting would you like to leave a message, which i do asking for them to contact myself but they never do.

Right now i am frustrated thinking aabout going nuclear on them ( i still dont think its in the best intrests of my children) but atleast it will ensure if i win i will be able to ensure they get what they need and are together again.
What happened to the government guidlines that fathers should be involved at the earliest opportunity?

So two weeks on less worried more angry, as it seams from what little i have gleened that my son was left with his mother because if she lost both children she could have self harmed, since when is a little boy sacrificed for a woman?

Right now what i NEED more than anything is information about my children, their well being and how my son is protected when behind closed doors, and it seams C&F are more than happy to ignore me.
I would like a third persons view on options before i go to my solicitors and press the button.
Could anyone advise on who it is best to contact regarding complaints about C and F, i am drafting a letter to send to my MP.
Any advice on what should and should not be included in such a device as my MP is the speaker and as such cannot raise a question in the house but can go directly to any department within government.

CAFCASS should have a complaints procedure, so that would be your first step. However, writing to your MP at the same time is a good idea as MPs can move slowly as they have a lot of cases to deal with. Is there any chance you can go and see your MP at one of their surgeries - it means your case will stick in their minds more if they have seen you. Either way, you need to write down the problems you've had, but keep it as brief as possible and don't bother with minor niggles, they need to focus on the bigger issues. If you see your MP in person, given them the letter/summary - that way they don't miss anything out when they are taking notes.

Thanks ACTD
I am not worried about minor niggles i am worried about my sons safety, the fact that C&F seam to be putting his mothers welfare first and that any communication is a one way street i talk they ignore.
Still the case worker has not contacted me dispite today my contacting the department stating as clearly as i can my concerns.
Is it that simple for C&F to ignore fathers and even the safety of a male child in favour of a female?
when will they protect males or are they just for sacrifice.
My daughter i have no fears for for she will be safe right now i cannot say that of my son and it seams this country has no inclination to protect my son when it means a woman will be upset let the son pay the price for her happiness.
I am in a bad place right now and trying to do the right thing for all.

I will continue this thread in hope of a good outcome and other fathers seeing there are good and bad times ahead but by sticking to the right path YOU will bring solutions that benefit the only thing that maters MY CHILDREN.

Sorry if this is getting random this is the place i scream and cry and yes hope too

Sorry if this is getting random this is the place i scream and cry and yes hope too

That's not a problem - a lot of us on here have been through some bad times, so know how you feel. If we don't understand your posts, we'll ask until we do so we can give as much help as possible. And the same goes for you - if you don't understand the answers, then ask until you do - there are definitely no stupid questions when it comes to children's safety.

Thanks ACTD i know there are no stupid questions other than those not asked, and no stupid questioner other than the one who does not ask.

well a little over a week later some great news some not so great news.
It seams that C&F have not been involved for only 9 months but at least 2 years!!!
and even though one month after i contacted them the case worker for my son has still not contacted me.
I have instructed my solicitor to ensure she gets all the paperwork connected with the case and warned C&F if i find out they were involved more than 3 years 9 months ago that i will be instructing my solicitor to use every measure available to her to persue them to the ends of the earth for retribution as i was seeing my children at that time and their inactions will have caused much harm to all concerned. I know if they had contatced me when i was still seeing my children so much would have been so differnt my biggest fear right now..
goes back nearly 8 years ago when i did contact them about my son (then 3) being beaten according to his sister (at that time) "mommy hits him till he screams" note not crys but screams!!!
Their responce to my phoine call was no concern about my childrens welfare!!!
If i find out it dates back to that time [censored] will freeze over before i am finished dragging them through the courts.

But enough about those i feel have hurt not only both my children but also their relationship with their father and mother some good no great news.
Thanks to Mr A (a case worker with C&F who used to be their case worker but is not now,) who is being very helpful as a go between between myself and T's sister . The result of this is both my children have expressed a wish to see me and we are planning how best to do that. Because as always its not about the parents its about the children, and whats best for them.

Above and beyound that, we are writing to the mother with the hope we will get her to sign the PR letters, and then its onto court to support T's sisters application for the SGO for my daughter, and to set in stone legally my rights to see both children and any other matters that need to be legally set in stone and of course contact the schools etc to ensure they involve me in my childrens schooling.

So all in all some ups some downs but when i see my children i just wont care.
I see a speck of light ahead, and now the hard work is hopefuly going to start and my children and I will be able to start rebuilding our relationship

3 weeks later and many meetings with social services and my solicitors and finally tonight i have just managed to arrange to meet my children in 2 days time :woohoo:
I have to thank my ex's sister for managing it and i am over the moon still many battles to fight and many wrongs to right but right now i start to make right the wrongs with my children.
At times there has been panic dispare and hopelessness but if you carry on and keep calm when all you want to do is scream shout and hurt those who hurt yours you will win through.
I know i am only just starting out on this journy but how far have we come already.
dont give up dont lose hope if you do it right you will get there.
But i still do have a long way to go
but the first step is taken

Excellent news - a step in the right direction 🙂

I thought so untill i met my son today.
4 years ago he was a very bright outgoing articulate and fit child.
The child i saw today knows less maths than he did 4 years ago (he has to work out his two times table on his fingers at 11,) has a speach impediment is over weight and is introverted.
From what little he has told me he is in a special school (he did not use those words but his fellow pupils he was describing would fit that bill) and i know his school is most definatly not his local or even nearly local school) and he talked of hitting his head and being rushed to A and E.
When, how, why, that happened i do not know.
Tomorrow i meet my daughter and hope for great times.
After i have had my time with her i will be asking the ex's sister for a meeting to explain what has happened to my son. I fear social services know far more about this than they have told me ( which up to now is nothing at all!!! dispite the proof of ID and the fact i am their father provided and my numerous meetings and requests to be informed).
I know most cannot help me now as i have emplyeed solicitors but can anyone give me some advice just to keep me clam during the long dark hours.
I see my sons future destroyed and everyone working hard to keep me in the dark!
WHY!!!
Right now i feel as if i have lost 3/4 of my son, i still love S as much as ever but i have lots of hurt, anger, mixed up emotions all wanting to find a way to get free and get some pay back for what my son has lost. HIS FUTURE.
Lets hope tomorrow is a better day for it cant be any worse.

P.S. anyone with experience of a child with special needs i would love to hear any advice and yes of course i will love him no matter what for he is my son and he will always be perfect in my eyes just like his sister.

One father's journey continues and i hope to be able to post some better news tomorrow about my daughter.

I would look at getting your son's medical records as any visit to a&e will be on there.

As to what you can do to stay calm - it's very individual, but I found that just doing all the stuff I could to help my kids, and every step forward (plus a very supportive wife) was enough to keep me sane.

Hi again its been a while but the nightmare continues.....
yesterday i got a notice of application of care order dated 16th july for a date just two clear days later on thursday 19th july (something i believe is against set procedure)
Good news the SS claim in the care plan (not recived because waiting on legal aid still!! to get PR and then they have to give me such documents so peeps get pr (parental responcability) as soon as you can and long before any problems arise (to counter we will go for imaculate objection) so yes this is going nuclear and it does get worse far worse than i ever thought possible in my worst nightmare!!!!)
The good newsw baristers arew emplyed due to it being a ss case we get that automatically if we apply for it!!!! :woohoo:
not if we dont!!!! ;;)
The SS claimed in a phone call from my solicitors that only two people were named in their 'plan' myself and my sons aunt!!
However i have information from his aunt who has seen the childs plan my ex recived that a 3rd party a family are also included in that plan.
Now it gets worse much worse she (the aunt) who was favourite to get my son for a short time while the ss do checks on me (something they have not done in the many months since i started this post) was not even going to turn up to the court as she claims it is a fore gone conclusion the foster family (how i am coming to hate such a thing and the people who pray on a defensless child like this) will take my child.
NOTE
The SS still have not done one check on me or my home dispite being told 21 days ago i would not allow my child to remain with his mother after i finally (after 5 months got hold of the core group minuets of meetings) and found out the horrid truth its one of those stories you hear of in the papers and think what monster could do that (think drugs, think no carpets think no bed linin or pillows think the worst its happened and the SS only want to take him away when i finnally find out the truth
BUT NOT TO ME TO OTHERS!!!!
Even my solicitors are wondering what is happening with the SS even they claim its just wrong and breaking the law in so many ways!!!!

Yesterday i had a hope....
That i could get my child of failing that his aunt would look after him for a while...
Now i fear others are working for their own wants and my child is the prise irrespective of the cost to him.
P.S. i have not posted for this long as i was trying to work through the system but its clear to me now the system is corrupt, bust and works only for women or money can someone give me hope its not always like this and that even if the worst happens i still have a hope!!!!
beyound suing the SS for their neglegence, ignoring or the law and damadge they are doing to my son's future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well back from court
First the good news
We have avoided my son being taken into care as the SS said they did not have time to do any checks on either me or my sons aunt the only option they had was to file for a care order and to remove my son to a tempory foster home.
The judge a very wise man was far from happy to let this happen and talked at lenght with the council for the SS about what he could order as the judge (which avoids the ss regs which said no person could be placed with unchecked family even the father!!!).
To cut a long story short if anyone objected to the ss CO application the case would have been a contested case and the court would have had no option but to grant a tempory care order to the SS which would have meant my son would now be with strangers in a strange place.

Instead he is with his mother for 2 more days then moves to be with his sister at his aunts under a supervision order lasting 26 weeks ( the expected time the case will last).
I finally have got PR on my son, but no access rights were granted in the order but it has been agreed to continue with what has been going on so far untill we can get a hearing for contact so right now in effect i get a little over 1 day a year (1 hour every other week and supervised) but the SS have not got one peice of information to show i am any risk and even support my application to have my son!!!!

However there is a price i must pay for ensuring my son stays out of the evil clutches of the SS and foster homes......
Even though the SS are going to do all the home checks and parenting checks on me i know i now will never get my son with me after all why remove him from his sister even if he does not like it there.
To be honest if i was a judge in such a case i certainly would not.
So we won the battle but lost the war.
I did what was best for my son and the price is never having my two children to care, love, help and nuture.
Its the price fathers pay when mothers go wrong and politicians call us the bad ones!!!

Thus the story ends
please close this thread it has reached its conclusion please draw your own oppinons on the state of the british legal and family law systems in this country. In effect i now have 6 days 12 11 (just had one of them) hours of contact to look forward to in the next 6 years before the ss can be told to take a running jump and i never did anything wrong and even they admit that!!!!

Im in a similar position...

shes evil, comes from a background where her dad used to mistreat her... so she figures that she can do without me.

my boy is 7 weeks yesterday, im holding on for dear life as i knw that she will make it impossible for me to see him.

to say im deeply depressed and upset about my situation is an understatement but like you say... there has to be light at the end of the tunel.. and wild horses couldnt keep me from seeing him.