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Hi
Sorry, I wasn't sure where to post this. :unsure:
Since joining last week I have been reading through the forum and getting to know the struggles that a lot of dads have been facing. I can and do totally sympathise with you all, my husband is going through the mill trying to see his son at the moment and I know the effect it has on him - so, I would personally like to apologise on behalf of all those horrible, twisted and vindictive women out there that think it's okay to toy with people's lives and use their children as weapons. They almost, at times, make me feel ashamed to be a woman!
I always see it written that everything is "supposedly" done in the best interests of the child/children and it isn't the right of the parent to have a relationship with the child but it is so vice versa. I am a mother myself and - whilst I may get shot down for it, will say it anyway - believe that a) It's totally ludicrous to tell a parent (of either [censored]) that they have no right to a relationship with the child that they have co-created (unless that parent is a danger) and b) Children have far too many rights. The latter, I feel, has a big part to play in the bigger picture when you look at the way things are going in this country these days, i.e. the riots, etc (I may sound older but I'm 33). Whilst obviously I do believe that of course it is the right of a child to have access to both parents so should it be the right of both parents to have access to their child. How is it not in a child's best interests to have contact with both parents? Unless as I said, the parent is a danger.
I have never stopped my son's abilty to have a relationship with his father or vice versa, even though he has never stepped up to his responsibilities (maintenance, visitation, etc) he has always been given the opportunity. Nor did I badmouth him to my son. I just always figured that just as I had grown to know this guy was a waste of space, so would our son and it's much better if he comes to this conclusion himself...which has now happened! I'm glad I left it for him [son] to discover because my conscience is clear and I know I did nothing to impede their relationship nor do I feel to blame that he wants very little to do with his father now.
Anyway on to the actual reason I am here today writing! My husband had been seeing his son regularly for all of his life up until the age of around 3 and a half (hubby and ex split when son was 10months). Even up until then things were generally okay but always determined by the mood of the mother. Then he moved a bit further away to live with me, they'd spoken about her & son meeting me etc etc, but it never happened (this didn't happen all at once btw, it's compacted to try to cut the story down). In 2010 hubby saw the little boy at least six times, probably no more than this because of the work he does, mum's mood, etc, he was still looking to see him more but mum wouldn't agree to him coming to stay because "she had never met me" (always "reasons" why). We moved long distance in the September (hubby and son spent the day together the week before we left) and hubby tried to arrange contact once we had settled in. He asked about Christmas, holidays, birthdays and weekends every six weeks because of distance and his patterns of work. The next thing, a letter comes through the door from her solicitor! So I guess my question is is it reasonable for things to jump from someone asking for contact to getting solicitor letter?? There were then a string of letters backwards and forwards from her solicitor (in which they kept urging hubby to get a solicitor) and never any mention of mediation.
In July last year the letters stopped as there was an arrangement that hubby could contact the boy by phone with a view to building up to direct contact again, this happened...for a while. It didn't take long before she was letting it ring onto voicemail, etc. On the occasions my husband did get to speak to his son, which to be fair was quite a few times, he was told by him that he [son] had a new daddy and he [hubby] had a new son (referring to my son)! This carried on until November when my husband sent a text to his ex asking her to be honest with the boy and tell him that she didn't want them to have a relationship rather than falsifying the situation to suit herself. She then replied by text to hubby saying 'Until you apologise, don't use my number for contact. Your rude and I'm not accepting your behaviour. You need to grow up and learn to have a mature conversation. You rude person'....that is the exact text! My husband carried on making his weekly phone call for the next two weeks (rang onto voicemail both times) on the third week which was at the beginning of December she had changed her number!
My husband sent a Christmas gift to his son by special delivery and it was returned as uncollected. He then sent an email in April, obviously this had given her time to calm down, asking why he was stopped from speaking to the boy, why the gift was uncollected andif he could come and visit the boy. She replied with an email asking for a date and time he would like to visit, he replied '19 May at 09.30 is this okay?', she didn't answer so he sent another email saying ' as requested I replied to your email with a date and time that I would like to see child. As yet I haven't received a reply from you confirming whether this is okay? This is the reply he received (c+p'd, the only edit is the child's name) :
'As you know, due to the amount of verbal abuse you gave me on the telephone at Christmas, I have changed my number. I did mention to you that I would do this if you continued to harass me. I have not changed my address and Child has not received any mail.
You have mentioned that I stopped you from talking to Child - you know that this is not the case as you have not been in contact with him since December. The last email I have is dated December.
Your behaviour has become threatening towards me and I do not feel comfortable at the thought of being in the same room as you. I will not allow myself to be put in a situation where you can bully or harass me. I am in the process of arranging your visit with Child at the local contact centre, once this has been confirmed you will hear from me in due course.'
What she said in that email was an out and out lie! On 23 May we travelled down to their home to give the boy his gifts (Christmas and Easter) she came to the door and started having a go at my hubby. We left the gifts with her other half and sat in the car for a while. Her other half then (we assume) went to get the boy from after school club. When he came back and saw us still sitting in the car he wheelspun off. We then left as it was obvious hubby wasn't going to get to see his little boy.
The following day he sent her an email requesting mediation and gave her seven days to reply - she did not. On Friday he filed the C100.
Whilst this woman has always "in principal" maintained that she thinks it's a good idea for my husband to see his son, she does everything she can to make it not happen. But, of course, when it's written in all the correspondence it makes her "look" reasonable!
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to any advice, ideas on how this might play out....
Teri
p.s. as stated on my original post on 'Guide to represnting....' both myself and my husband will be posting under this name 🙂
I sympathise with your situation and I hope that everything will end up well.
If the court will set up a visiting plan for your husband and his son - his ex will have to follow it no matter what she wants. other way she would be breaking the law as the courts order is a law - not guidance.
I would mention in the court fight that your hubby has never cancelled any appointments with his son, but was simply refused to have them. This should rule out her lies with - "he never made a contact" as she will have to provide evidence that your husband couldn't make any of the occasions.
I hope this helps and will be looking forward to hearing further post once your case has been sorted out.
Hi goonergaj
I agree that the contact order application is the way to move this forward now. The court can order indirect contact (so recorded delivery would be proof that a letter was refused) and contact at a contact centre, moving on to unsupervised and staying contact in due course - it's worth getting a schedule of this drawn up in the original contact order so you don't keep having to go back to court for a variation to get contact increased.
One thing I advise strongly against is going to your ex's house at all, unless it's pre-arranged and you have proof of such - otherwise you run the risk that she will call the police and accuse you of harassment or breach of the peace - that' something you really don't want to appear in court as it will severely hamper your case.
Hi actd
Thanks for the reply. Yes we are aware that it wasn't the best idea in the world to turn up at the house but we went with the knowledge that is was a possibility she could call the police etc etc, and as such recorded the conversation. We weren't there for very long and gave them the gifts for the boy. It won't happen again though anyway.
This is a very complicated situation and to throw a spanner into the works ex is very likely moving to Northern Ireland in the next few months. The complication comes from the fact that she is remarrying next week sat and it's to an army man! To my knowledge it is highly likely that she has been with this man for little more than a year (if even that long). My son calls this man daddy and has done for at least 7-8 months. I haven't had any direct contact with my son since 6/2/11 and that was only because he was at my parents' house. I began the regular phone contact, suggested by her solicitor, in July and then that ended around the end of November (when she stopped answering) and at the beginning of December she'd changed her number - the only means I had of contacting my son. She didn't refuse the gift, she just didn't bother to collect it after they left the card in her door.
Anyway, so she remarries on 16/6/12 and will be moving (as far as I'm aware) to NI with my son and her new, by then husband, to live on or near an army base. I've only found these snippets of info through social media. I understand that I may or even may not be offered some kind of contact through the court but what if I am and then in a few months she ups and moves to NI?? Surely contact would become next to impossible as there is not just distance between us but also a sea! On my C100 I have applied for prohibited steps along with contact but because this guy is in the army I'm not overly hopeful I'll get anywhere with the PSO but it's worth a try. Once that move happens I can't see how the whole contact centre business or anything will work, the logistics don't really pan out very well. I have a horrible sneaking fear that the court will look at the fact she has a new husband that's called "daddy" and rule that it's in my son's best interest that I am no longer involved in his life, through no fault of my own, and I'll never get to see him again :boohoo:
Any thoughts anyone??.......
It's a tricky one as there is a complication that your son will have a half brother, and the court will consider that important. Your ex can't legally take your son to NI without your permission unless the court orders otherwise, so it's anybody's guess how it will pan out, but it's certainly worth going the way you are going.
One thing the court will not do is to decide that it's in your son's best interest to have no contact with you, so it's worth coming up with a plan B that involves contact if the court does allow the move to NI, so holidays with you (and how the costs are shared), indirect contact - letters, cards, skype etc and time with you if you go there for a holiday, so that you can maintain contact.
actd, are you sure the courts have to rule on the Northern Ireland move? NI is part of the UK, so technically it is no different to her moving to the far side of England really.
actd, are you sure the courts have to rule on the Northern Ireland move? NI is part of the UK, so technically it is no different to her moving to the far side of England really.
Yep, mainly because the CCLC answered pretty much the same question a few days ago:
http://www.dad.info/dad-talk-forum/welcome-to-the-forum/14029-law#14201
If you'd asked the same question a week ago, I wouldn't have been so certain 😆
Thanks for the support guys and for the 'plan b' options/ideas actd.
Just to let you know, given the dubious way I found out about her plans to move, I have applied to the court to hold an emergency hearing just in case they decide to move sooner than I anticipated. Does anyone know if I will be required to attend that hearing? Would very much appreciate the answer to that one if anyone does know.
Will keep you updated as to how things are progressing.
To be honest, I think 'required' is the wrong question, really you should be asking 'allowed', because surely you would want to be there for that particular hearing, whether you are legally required to or not? I assume you have a solicitor? I really can't remember if you mentioned it and checking is like waaay totally too much work, like, duuuude? But seriously, I'd give your representation a quick call and check if you will be informed if/when this meeting takes place, and if you can be there regardless of if you are required or not.
No I don't have a solicitor Grummy and, to be honest, I don't feel it necessary to be at the hearing if I don't have to be. I live around 200 miles away from the court that is nearest to my son which makes that the court my whole application will be heard at, with that in mind, and the fact that I still have to go to work whilst all this is going on, the less times I'm required to make an appearance the better.
Obviously I will be at every hearing throughout the case but considering I have given them all the relevant information they'll need to decide whether or not to grant an emergency PSO, I can't see what purpose me being there actually serves. It may sound blase but I'm looking at the big picture here. There may be mediation, contact centre and/or other places to attend over time, if I have to go to all these places on top of the actual hearings and I run out of annual leave days I will probably have to take unpaid leave. I am by no means rich and still have a life outside of my desperate last ditch attempt to re-establish contact with my boy - so definitely no I don't want to be there if I don't have to be.
Hi...I read your thread from front to back and I agree totally.
I have no idea why some mothers exhibit their hate towards the father of their children by alienating the child. Unfortunately, a C100 is the only option in th end. I have, for years, had to sit back and watch my children's lives capitulate steadily whilst maintaining my Contact and paying maintenance by means of flagging school levels of performance, dips in behaviour and repeated incidents in their mother's home with their mother and her partner. How sad it is that the children have to go through distress in order for the father of the children to then be considered as a viable option for further contact!
A very sad state of affairs and I thought that the Court was supposed to be full of educated people?
I would think (but I'm not sure, so I'll ask CCLC to comment) that you would need some representation there so that it's not one sided. Keep checking back for their posting.
Dear Grummy,
From reading your thread your situation seems quite complicated.
It may be more beneficial for you to call our free advice line on 0808 8020 008 or webchat. The link to our webchat is http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/index.php?page=web_chat
Yours Sincerely,
Coram Children’s Legal Centre
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