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Deduction of earnin...
 
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Deduction of earnings order


Posts: 4
Registered
Topic starter
(@whatdoido92)
Active Member
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Hey folks, new here so hello! 

 

I've ran into an issue recently, 

I am the paying parent to two seperate receiving parents, both caring for two of my children. 

Parent one is collect and pay, parent two is direct pay 

As per the CMS calculator I should be paying each parent a total of £267~ monthly however parent one has been issued a collect and pay payment for £549.50(roughly the total amount of my earning that can be taken) and parent two should only apparently recieve £178~ out of what is left of my wages. 

I don't believe this to be correct however and raised a concern on the 20/01/2025, wherein the lady I spoke to on the phone also realised this was likely a mistake and said they'd raise it. Today on the phone there had been no response to that query. 

 

The company I work for today recieved a notification to deduct the £549.50 from my monthly earnings, this however would leave me unable to pay parent two and support my other two children. 

 

I called CMS today and was told £549 is the correct amount to be paid to parent one despite the calculated amounts on the cms website

 

Please advise or explain why there is this gigantic difference in the amounts between both parents, surely they're entitled to the same? This is likely to destroy the amicable relationship I have with parent two. 

7 Replies
Posts: 5366
(@dadmod2)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago

hi,

have you missed payments before? why is it collect and pay/DOE? there is a 20% fee added on top of those payments.

 

if its all wrong then you can contact your MP and ask them to complain to CMS. can also CC in:

correspondence@dwp.gov.uk 

complaintsreviewteam@dwp.gov.uk 

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1 Reply
Registered
(@whatdoido92)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Active Member
Posts: 4

@dadmod2 it was moved to collect and pay due to a relationship breakdown between myself and parent one after I had moved into another relationship and then had children.

I have sent an email to my MP and to all of the email addresses I found on here regarding complaints, I just don't understand why one parent would be entitled to triple the amount of the other parent

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Posts: 25
Registered
(@dushisbest)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago

Hello,

Parent 1 was already collect and pay.

(So incurred 20% fees already). Now with an attachment of earnings. 

Parent 2 direct pay.

Example: Current liability!

 Let's say your gross weekly income they use is £500.

2 kids 16%

(Not including any reduced rate for the kids living with you ect). 

500/100*16=£80

This is then split per child on the case. 

Child 1 = £40/100*20=£8 (48 a week with fees)

Child 2 = £40 paid directly.

Now they look at arrears. (With an attachment of earnings)

Parent 1: say 2k of arrears.

Parent 2: no arrears.

£500 per week gross. Call it £406.60 after tax, ni and pension. 

406.60/100*40=£162.64 in payment accounting for protected proportion. 

Parent 2: gets their regular £40. 

Parent 1: get the rest till the arrears are clear. Or £122.64 per example. 

"So given the difference I may suggest it is to do with arrears". 

Now if the expectation, is that you only pay 1 parent from the detachment of earning at the full 40% , and the other parent out of your protected proportion of income. That in not correct. As they have to account for both the cases you pay, within that 40%.

But by the sound of it, all or most of any arrears calculated is in case/parent 1. 

Every thing you pay is broken down daily, from effective date to annual review date. Regardless of how many changes occur 

This is further broken down per number of child. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Good luck.  

 

 

 

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4 Replies
Registered
(@whatdoido92)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Active Member
Posts: 4

@dushisbest thankyou for the reply, there are some arrears with parent one but I've no idea what they're based on as I was self employed before starting at this job and was hit with a deo within 3 months of starting here.

Guess I'm going into debt with utilities then until the arrears are paid off.

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(@dadmod2)
Joined: 6 years ago

Illustrious Member
Posts: 5366

@whatdoido92 you could look at applying for breathing space to help manage with other debts, can get in touch with step change

https://www.stepchange.org/how-we-help/breathing-space-scheme.aspx?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkoe9BhDYARIsAH85cDNMQ6Lqo-LaA8EFGzUhnVIieF3hh6Iacqa2gS-pKAgiYTNdTCA3sWYaArbOEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

also collect and pay is not permanent, you can ask to be taken off after 6 months of reliable payments.

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Registered
(@dushisbest)
Joined: 1 month ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 25

@whatdoido92 -

Hi, having been self employed, you would have had to submit self assesment tax returns. All of this is recorded by HMRC, and the CMS would have requested this infomation.

In your case:
- If they were not informed of the change in employment, and could not get enough infomation from HMRC to define a weekly income figure, they can estimate one, based on and 1 of the last 5 tax years, or the type of job you do. (Estimated income).

- If the change from self employment to PAYE was reported. (And the weekly gross income figure, would be 25% diffrent, from what ever figure they were using). You should be on a current income caculation. An estimate from wage slips, or contract of employment of what you would earn until review.

Your letters should state what assesment of income you are on. (Historical / Current / Estimated). And why.

Always read the letter carefully. Always check the caculations.

"As a genral rule 60% Of your net income (Thats after tax, NI and pension) is protected by law. As that is what you require, to meet the needs of life. You cannot legally be compelled to pay more than the 40%".
- The liability in both cases is caculated "by the CMS" as a single caculation from your gross income. Then broken down to determin the distribution per child, per case. (1 liability caculation. Not 1 liability caculation per case). (Plus they are handeling both cases).
- If the CMS has not factored parent 2 into the 40%. And the expectation from the CMS is that you pay 40% your net income to parent 1. Then more than the 40% to meet your obligation to parent 2. You are being compelled by the CMS (Forced by threat of legal actions in that case). To meet your legal obligation. Over your protected proportion.
- It is obstructing your ability to meet a legal obligation. In the hopes of profiting from that obstruction. (Create gain and cause loss Faud and theft act)
- It is showning prefrential treatment in one case over another. (Bias). (Counter the the child support act ect - Both cases have equal consideration under the law, by what legal grounds is case 1 being given special consideration?).
- It is forcing you into finantial harship, by not accepting the 60% as being protected under the law. (If i remember right its the Attachment of earning act 1970 something - and associated legislation covers this stuff).
- Look the door swings both ways. If they took an attachment of earning in both cases, they would have to consolidate the AOE's because of the protected proportion. Where in the math is the caculation factoring in case 2, beyond the liability. As part of that payment?
- They may have not caculated payment of the second case into the figures, Which can be veiwed as maladministration. (as exsample civil servents codes of conduct).
- If they have, and the CMS are going to make payments to the second case from the deduction. Are you expected to pay collection fees for that case now? On what legal grounds would these now be charged? (Have you missed a payment?)

- To track the remaining balance of the AOE
CAPS office
caps@justice.gov.uk
Telephone: 0300 123 1058
Monday to Friday, 8:30am to 5pm

- To lodge a complaint that you belive you are being forced to pay over your Protecte proportion.
Fill in a N244 (Make an aplication to the court, but read up on what they need to see to fight your case).

- Either way write to the CMS a "Mandantory Reconsideration". (Send special delvery with copies of any relivant evidance).
explain why you belive there to be an error in law with the payment caculations. (You can use there own documents as evidance).
Ask for a full and complete mathmatical break down.
Ask as a subject access request for them to provide a copy of the court order and case refrence number if they have not already.
As to be provided a full and complete explination of anything you do not understand. And quote which legislation it comes under, and what part.
Ask them to amend the AOE to include case 2.

No joy, file a SSCS2 for a tribunal with cover letter and any evidance.

After that write a complaint to ICE (Indipendant case exsaminer).

Complaint about maladministration against a goverment body of civil servent ect. Can be made seporatly. Check of the Civil Service Commision as exsample.

I hope some of this is useful to you.

Again good luck.

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Registered
(@whatdoido92)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Active Member
Posts: 4

@dushisbest I have an amicable relationship with parent two and informed her of my phonecall to cms earlier and advised her to contact cms to inform them of the ongoing issue. Low and behold they have told her (via a somewhat breach of patent ones data) that it doesn't seem fair to her as a receiving parent and that they will change the amount to equalise things based on my liability from the earnings calculation. Which I am grateful for as parent two allows me to maintain a very positive relationship with my children whereas parent one denies access. This shouldn't be a factor to cause bias, but I'm only human.

Crisis possibly averted (time will tell) though I'm going to save this post and it's contents as there is alot of useful information here.

I may not be perfect and wish I could pay down the arrears quicker but I'm living payday to payday as it is with the current state of things, I've saved every letter they've sent including their own payment calcs that they go on to contradict in their DOE payment plan.

Really appreciate everyone here for the comments and advice, forums like this are truly a godsend to all the fathers being shafted by this horrific and uncaring branch of the dwp.

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