Hi all, new poster here hoping for some advice and help.
Last year I got a letter from CMS saying I was 50k in arrears, history of this is that my ex went to CMS in 2013/2014 when I wasn’t working for 3-4 months and CMS confirmed this and sent a letter saying nil payment to us both. As soon as I got a job I started paying every month using the calculator on their website. I paid every month for the next 4-5 years bar 2 months when I was between jobs but I also had the kids for all the holidays at that time (so well over the normal 2 nights a week usually they stayed). CMS continued to send letters saying nil payment due, I continued to pay. Last year I get a letter saying i'm 50k in arrears.
Despite asking repeatedly CMS will not explain how the 50k is calculated – its now gone up to 60k, and now 70k. I have provided amounts and dates of payments, all done direct from my bank account to hers. They just reply saying they cannot take any new info, that they will proceed with the case. They say I have to move to collect and pay because of the no payment of arrears and they are charging interest on them too.
I will make a formal complaint but how on earth can they do this? And where is the responsibility of the receiving parent to confirm that they have received payments? Even if there is some discrepancy from my calculations to theirs I have been paying - I have all the info now in an excel sheet with dates and amounts.
Really need some advice on tackling this one. As of November last year I am out of work again (thanks COVID). CMS say that I am still liable for all arrears even though im not working (even though they won’t actually seemingly tell me where the arrears come from given my monthly payments over last 5 years). They are asking me to send in payslips, P60, etc, but I'm of the mind (maybe wrongly) of why should I keep sending them info when they won't even address the fact that I have been paying and will not explain where they get this figure from. I feel that sending more info like P60s will just give them more tope to try and change me with. The language in their messages on the online portal are borderline threatening, basically telling me that they have powers to take my passport etc and that I am not complying because I am repeatedly asking them how they calculated the arrears and not sending them my P60s.
My biggest worry is that my (now) wife is working and payments were made from our joint account. CMS have sent paperwork asking me to set up a collect and pay to the tune of 3500 a WEEK – don’t even earn that a month! Can they take money from the joint account? As that’s her account also?
Really appreciate any advice on how to escalate this case with CMS and move forward in a productive way.
hi,
so what happened was when you started a new job and was using the calculator to make payments, you did not report your new job to CMS? if so then looks like that's when the problems started with arrears. My understanding is if you are paying through CMS, then all changes/calculations need to be done by them. I have read some info online that apparently they do have powers to take money from joint accounts.
there is a process here about appealing CMS decisions:
it would also be a good idea to write to your MP, requesting CMS to give you a full breakdown of the arrears.
you could also request a full audit/arrears breakdown of your CMS account:
Request your personal information from the Department for Work and Pensions
You have the right to get a copy of the information that is held about you. This is called the 'right of access'.
Thanks, yes I had not informed CMS about any of my work activity. Perhaps a mistake on my part but I did not want CMS to get involved.
I am not paying through CMS, all the payments were direct to my ex through my bank account.
Thanks for the info on the personal info request plus the appeals process. I am new to all this, lots of reading to do to try and figure out what to do. I'm just furious that they won't seem to acknowledge my payments over the years and keep coming back with ever increasing arrears.
It might be a good idea to contact a journalist. If you get press coverage, it might nudge DWP to action this.
Have you had a recent dispute with you ex wife?
It sounds like the case with CMS was registered, then confirmed zero payment, but then as Bill points out, when you worked again instead of informing CMS and paying through them, you have paid directly.
I am guessing this has been ok with your ex wife, until something happened that triggered her to go to CMS and state you had not been paying?
I assume it could be overturned if your ex were to contact CMS and advise that she confirms the payments were made in lieu of child maintenance and therefore closes the case, but I also assume she sniffs a big pay out and wont do this?
I agree with others on the route to solution and your involving your MP. Anyone reading this, and if the case is as described, can see it is totally unfair and should be torn up,
But with CMS you are dealing with an organisation that works on rules and process, so they are not the solution, your ex or a third party is I feel.
Hi Idle
I'd agree with the advice from the others, however you should also follow the process the CMS want you to as it seems like you are sticking to your position of wanting the CMS to explain the arrears first before following their process.
In relation to asking for payslips and p60s etc.. If you have been employed (and not self employed) for the duration in question then even though you did not report the change in your circumstances you can still provide them with the relevant information and they can verify this with HMRC, if you were self employed then you may need your tax records etc which hopefully you have kept to deal with any discrepancies.
Potentially your ex is sniffing a payout and not confirming to CMS that you have made the relevant payments, however if when you have an open CMS case you have calculated the payments yourself and paid them rather than allowing CMS to do so and telling you what you should pay then this causes the issue you are faced with..
I wouldn't worry about their threats at this stage as there are still many steps to go through before they start looking at confiscation of passport and deductions from earnings. You do need to complain or appeal and contact local MP who can out pressure on to say that you just want to know how they have calculated the arrears.
However they may respond that they cannot give you arrears breakdown until you have supplied the information they are requesting.
All the best...
Thanks all for the help. Really appreciate it. Yes my ex wife and I have not spoken in years and I know she'd happily see me bankrupt and on the streets if she could. I'm remarried and very happy and she isn't, so yes any possibility of extra cash she will take. She's already gone after my pensions.
CMS sent us both letters for 4 years running when they did an annual summary saying that I was nil rate of pay. Other than a handful of months I was unemployed I was paying her CM as we had a family based agreement - plus I genuinely want to provide for my kids. The early CMS letters stated that it was family based. Only in the last year did they change this, they sent a letter with a payment schedule rather than nil and said it was Direct Pay. Then I got another letter a month later to say that I owed 50K arrears and the weekly amount changed. Then another letter following month with again an increase in arrears and weekly payment. I had been asking them how they are calculating this, as the weekly payment was wrong too, but they won't tell me. the other point is that they are not taking into account nights the kids stay with me as part of their calculations - that's a whole other story as my ex has tried her best to stop the kids staying, Of course my ex gets these letters too, so while she could have told CMS that she received payments she clearly hasn't.
Daddyup - you say that they won't give me an arrears breakdown until I supply my financial info? How can they send me and my ex letters stating I owe 50k, 60k, 70k when they are not obliged to tell me how they calculated it? Can you imagine any other company saying you owe them money but not telling you how and where the calculation is from? I replied to CMS stating each year and amount of payment plus payment date over the last 5 years (its fluctuated due to different jobs). Am I unreasonable to keep asking them to confirm receipt of the payments? Its obvious to me that the 'arrears' do not take this into account but they are just seemingly unwilling to take this info?
I will proceed with the formal complaint first and if necessary ask for the mandatory reconsideration.
hi,
yes I think you should follow the complaint process. but you should also comply with them and just send in the P60. because if this ends up in court, they could argue that you have been difficult and not supplying them with income information as requested. You should also contact your MP and ask for support, as its ridiculous they want £3500 per week and you don't earn that amount per month.
Hi,
I have just been informed by the CMS that I have £3K arrears showing on my account (nowhere near your situation) which I also do not understand. I have a letter from the CMS dated four days prior to the arrears letter which states I have never missed a payment. I have always paid exactly what they have told me to which has been calculated each year from my salary - supplied to them by HMRC - monthly payments are currently just under £600 per month.
It seems there are hundreds of cases where fathers are being hit with arrears demands even though they have paid the correct amounts - I have no idea how they calculate these figures and I have just started the complaints process....
Any advice is more than welcome.
@ozman Hi. A common route that paying parents are taking when dealing with dubious arrears, is by emailing a senior manager; arlene.sugden@dwp.gov.uk and you also copy in your MP.
Thanks very much for the info, I will certainly give that a bash!