[Solved] Legal representation am i stuffed???

Hi - many thanks for the information

Firstly do you have contact details for the board?

Secondly this bit of their email doesn't make sense

'If an application for civil legal aid is submitted, then it is intimated to the opponent (unless the opponent’s address is not known). At that stage it would be open to you to submit representations to us. However, the Board cannot determine who is telling the truth in a case, as this is the function of the court. It is therefore possible that the tests could be satisfied even though there is no supporting evidence, and you dispute the facts of the case. We are unable to give opponents any details provided by the applicant in support of their application, as such information is confidential.'

It reads that the person who has been alleged DV would be notified about the application - and then I'm guessing representation means you reply and say well this isn't true. Then the board are saying well we cant decide if its true or not or actually give any details of the false claims.

I am guessing this relates more to do with conviction for DV as it talks about the court, rather than the application for legal aid based on DV to enable the legal to be provide to fight another case.

See this is the problem - granted they could make an application, but does that mean first a court hearing needs to take place to determine DV then if granted the aid is supplied to cover costs in a family dispute?

It just seems to me, that a someone who requires legal aid to cover family dispute who cannot afford to pursue by financing themselves can label the other person an abuser and yet that person has no way of defending themselves. All that happens is a board says yep that looks all good give them the money to progress with the family dispute.

This is covered by Peter Lodder who stated the problem is further increased by the fact that now in the absence of domestic violence people will not get legal aid, if a client presents at a solicitors office on the back of a matrimonial dispute, and is asked whether there is any evidence of domestic violence, and they are aware of the fact that that is the only way they will get legal aid then there is a strong incentive to say there was indeed violence.

There must be some sort of caveat as they surely cant grant legal aid to someone based on some drummed up allegations?

For example the accusers could deliberately burn themselves, take a picture and submit this as evidence. They could self harm them selves just to gain additional data to fulfil the 3 test cases, but the accused could have had nothing to do with it, however that would be enough to satisfy the board that aid could be granted for them to push for aid for a matrimonial dispute which has nothing realistically to do with DV.

The information that Kennymac is referring to is contained in this link, it sets out the criteria for a person to be eligible for Legal aid for Family Law matters concerning contact/custody of children, divorce and finances.

www.justice.gov.uk/legal-aid-for-private-family-matters/legal-aid-divorcing-separating-abusive-partner

There are many Dads here that have represented themselves and you will find lots of information about that in the stickys at the top of the Legal Eagle section. If you wish to apply for contact you will need to submit the C100 form to court. There is a guide to this, also at the top of the same section.

Hi Songa

Firstly, in the UK, the opponent is not notified if you are in receipt of legal aid. Kenny is I think quoting from the Scottish LAB...I don't know if they work differently

Secondly, to be granted legal aid in the UK, the applicant must prove domestic violence, i.e. staying in a refuge for more than 2 days, a police report, hospital report, GP report. I doubt she would get away with the earlier reports you mention. However saying this, there are/will be many false allegations of DV to get legal aid I think, but I don't believe they know what proof they need, and the applicants have to provide the proof not the solicitors they go to for help.

They could self-harm, but must attend at hospital, they cannot just take a photo and claim DV.

There is absolutely no legal ad whatsoever for divorce, financial matters, children, residence, contact. Legal Aid is only available if there is DV to partner and/or children, risk to children, abduction.

Kennymac is in Scotland and the procedures are slightly different there.

The point about evidence though is looking at it the board just has to receive an application form for legal aid. The question of whether it happened or not doesnt seem to factor. Just whether it meets criterior so it will be in the way the whole 'evidence' true or not is worded and peiced together so someone clever and manipulative could in theory construct a DV case based on nothing but suposition but string it together and it looks a lot more damning.

For example in my case - my ex partners apparently has IBS. Now she was always having problems in that area but it got to the point around last xmas that she was really suffering and taking lactilose etc etc and in the end went to see the doc. The doc asked her if she was stressed etc and she said no at the time. They took blood tests etc but nothing really came back as far as I am aware. Now since the separation apparently she has been fine, and I think in the last month or so has obtained a letter from her doc potentially stating that her flair up of IBS was stress related, and related to the DV she was apparently receiving....
It seems you only have to have a friendly doctor and for 50 quid they will fill out a doc.

So that could be construed as evidence point one.
The only other thing I could think about was some photo she took of a bruise which I was supposed to have given her, and a crack in one of the doors.

Neither of these things were actually done by myself at all.
But if she were to present the docs note, plus picture evidence as above and anything else she can think off then I personally think it is likely that this board would look and go, ooh look this definately looks like DV to us and grant her it.

You would think they would investigate claims for being false, especially as this claim is being submitted now and when she left there were no inroads made into seeking alternative accomodation becuase of DV.

I would have thought anyone with any sence would look at this and think, hang on, she needs this legal aid to work through a matrimonial dispute and wont qualify for it unless DV is claimed. Why is she putting the claim in 6 months after leaving...

Also in a case like this I would have thought that at least I would have the right of reply as its some really nasty allocations being made. All I have ever done is worked hard, looked after my kids and done as much as I could for her.

Hi Songa

It is not really down to the LAB to investigate claims as such, its down to the Applicant's Solicitor to ensure that he/she is putting in a correct claim.

However if the GP does state that the IBS is aggravated by DV...hmm.....just maybe it will get through. Personally I don't think that that I enough, particularly as you said she has always had it. My husband has it, and it comes and goes for no reason whatsoever!! IBS is caused by stress, which I guess could be caused by the relationship between you and she and be classed as abuse. You said she had it bad last Xmas, but we all know that type of food can set it off too!

The photos could be taken by anybody, because they could have been caused by anybody, nobody can say YOU did them.

And as you rightly point out, applying for it 6 months after leaving.........a bit late really!!

However, if she is granted legal aid, you could write to the LAB and stress you feel she does not deserve it...and the reasons why.

Hi Kenny

Have I just had an education or what! In Scotland it would seem that legal aid is still available for divorce and children matters as it was in the UK. :boohoo:

You must remember that what I am saying about legal and DV is only in the UK.

Does not mean that you should give up though!! 🙂

You have to wait until you know whether she has been granted legal aid 🙂 You must have some valid reasons for disputing the granting of legal aid to her too. I mean strong valid reasons ie. she earns too much money, you have evidence of her lies of your DV. etc etc... as Songa has evidence that he believes that she is not entitled to legal aid.

I think you make a very good point Songa...How to go from IBS to DV in three easy steps. I can see how GP evidence can easily be "massaged" with comparative ease. This concerns me I must admit.

I think, as has been said, you could write to the LAC and outline how you feel the facts have been misrepresented. Yes IBS is stress related but to then relate that to DV is absurd. As she was asked at the time if she was stressed and she said no, this should be in the GPs notes...and come on, if she was suffering DV surely she would have shared that information with her GP too!

Solicitors too are not all above reproach in my opinion, and some of them will not be too concerned as long as they can "justify" the claim and make it look right.

Perhaps we need to ask the question, who checks that the solicitor is behaving in an appropriate way when he puts a claim in for LA for a client and is he asked for evidence to support the claim.

Heheh..now now NJ 😆 Actually the Solicitor doesn't apply for the evidence, the client has to produce it 🙂

..Actually where did I say that the solicitor applies for the evidence?

I'll rephrase, I was asking who checks that the evidence provided to the solicitor is adequate for the claim for LA once he has put the claim in. Does the LAC ask for the supporting evidence that the client has provided to make sure that the criteria has been met appropriately.

The supporting evidence has to be sent to the LAB with the Application.

But what happens if the supporting 'evidence' is fabricated and not true?

I can understand that they just look at the case instance if the application was being made for a conviction or injunction for DV - however in this instance the application is being made solely to fund and get legal to possibly progress with the child-act 1989 or a tolata application.

Obviously this relates to the dividing up of matrimonial assets and in this case the aid is for isn't for an actual DV case - just drummed up allogations regarding DV to gain financial support for another case, so there is a difference of what is to be acheived by both applications.

Obviously the result being is if aid is granted on this basis there is no way I can afford my own solicitor to go down the childact or tolata route.

I agree Songa....I think you should write to the LAC and ask for them to look at the discrepancies that exist in your particular case, what safeguards are in place to prevent this from happening and who you should appeal to if this goes ahead.

Just msgd you nannyjane see what you think.

I've received it and replied Songa.

yes, but you cant write to the LAB until you know whether or not she has been granted legal aid.

He could write to express his concerns and suspicions, and ask what safeguards are in place to prevent such malpractice... and who he would contact to complain if it goes ahead.

If they are aware that there could be a problem they may scrutinize the claim when it is submitted...Songa may need to feel that he is doing something about it... In my opinion, it often makes people feel better just to be doing something rather than nothing, when they are confronting a problem.

...Just to clarify, it would be the LAB if you are in Sotland, in England it is known as the Legal Aid Commission.

Yes you are right NJ ....I just said not to because until you have the LA reference number, I doubt they could or would tie the two up together! They are not that bright normally!!

By the way I call it LAB still, it used to be the Legal Aid Board... I call the Legal Help Advice & Assistance, the Green Form. Once upon a time..tt was the name for the Legal Services Commission which today is now called the Legal Aid Agency, and the Legal Help form used to be an emerald green in colour. Yes I know Legal Help has been in for a number of years, but some things don't change to me...been too long in the business ! 😆

Songa won't get any paperwork from the legal aid commission concerning her claim for LA so it's very unlikely he would have access to the reference number anyway.

As Songa is acting in person as the Respondent will receive notification that she is in receipt of Legal Aid. A copy will be filed with the Court by her Solicitors and also served upon him by her Solicitors/Court.

Well thats strange, my son as an LIP wasn't afforded that courtesy! The more I find out about how things should be done but aren't, the more angry I get! 😡

Yes either the Solicitor or the LIP receive it. It is a Court document filed at Court, and served on the Sol or LIP after it has been sealed by the Court (although frequently it is also filed with the other side before sealing as well and after sealing).

When I think it was Kenny talking about it, he was talking about the LAB notifying other side BEFORE (which I found very strange! 😆 ) legal aid has been granted.

Nope, my son received nothing about her LA, either before the hearing or afterwards.

Hi just thought I would mention there is another way for women to claim legal aid in the new rules and that is if they were in a womens refuge for 1 night in the last 12 months, I found this out from my solicitor recently

Yup she has not been to a womens refuge.

Having said all this - and her applications for legal aid on the basis of DV - I received an ill written email from her stating that I had until a specific date to buy her out, to the tune of x thousands or she would commence legal proceedings. The only way she can go to court is if she has legal aid based on a false claim....

I am guessing if I buy her out or pay her off, in essence the false DV claim doesnt go any further....

See what I am getting at here?

You run the risk of buying her out, and then she still goes ahead with the false claim.