Dad dot info
DAD.info form. Ask questions, get answers
Notifications
Clear all

Clarity on 2nd passports for our children

 
olabisiawoyele
(@olabisiawoyele)
Active Member Registered

I would like to know if children of separated parents are allowed to have 2 passports. My ex and I have a contact order in place which grants equal share of the holidays every calendar year and alternating weekend care and contact. There are not PSOs in place for either parent. Both children have expressed strong desires to go abroad and given the last two years and being ‘locked’ at home, I have accepted this wish and as it is therapeutic for me as their Dad as well. The plan is to visit Paris for 4 days during the May bank holiday week

I know my older son has a valid passport as he was away on a school trip in May 2018 on a passport issued earlier that year. I wasn’t informed or included in that application. His previous passport which I had applied for in October 2012 had expired late 2017. I don’t know if my younger son as ever had one as he has never been abroad, and his Mum has never responded to requests made to confirm or deny the existence of one.

Might I add that during divorce proceedings, we both successfully applied for PSOs in a cross application which was discharged July 2021.

In November of 2021, I formally informed the Mum of the intent to travel late May/early June and in accordance with the 8-week notice period instructed by the court, advised that I would present the request again 8 weeks to the departure date. I then went ahead and booked and paid for Eurostar return tickets, a hotel for 3 nights, the Paris visite Zones 1 to 3 travel card as well as the Visit Paris ticket which allows entry into all museums including the Louvre as well as a boat cruise on the Seine and a tour of the Eiffel. The entry/departure dates and times, name of the hotel as well as its address and phone number were communicated to the mother who returned (verbally through the children) that neither of the children had passports and that my older son’s passport has expired.

Both my older son and I know that this isn’t true, and the children and I suspect that this trip may be sabotaged by their Mum and this is making us quite anxious. I have asked my ex to confirm this (again) and offered to remit the cost of obtaining new ones to which she has refused to acknowledge or offer a response hence my request above.

I have officially issued copies of the birth certificates for both children and given this and previous hostilities and non-commitment to this travel, can I go ahead and obtain new passports for both children without consulting or notifying their Mum? and then keep this with me as the non-resident parent and thus retain the assurance that for this and future travels, once I have completed due diligence in informing my ex of our travel itineraries, in accordance with the court’s guidance, I can collect the children when I should have them, and take them away on holidays as any responsible and committed father would do?

Besides the financial loss to me personally, the greater cost would be the damage to the relationship this may cause between the children and their mother which I would love to avoid if I can.

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 12/01/2022 10:53 am
Bill337
(@bill337)
Famed Member

hi,

is there anything in your court order that states that the children's passports must be kept by mother? as far as am aware, a child can not have 2 passports, unless they have dual citizenship of another country. are you in UK? you could try apply for new passports for them. issues that may arise is application may ask for details of previous passport. if a child does have a valid passport at present, then chances are the passport office will reject your application for a new one.

you can try that route, or if mother is clearly breaking rules of court order by not co-operating about travel abroad and passports, you could try to apply for an enforcement hearing of court order, and try get an urgent hearing. If you end up missing your booked trip, it may be possible to seek compensation from your ex through the courts. You could seek some legal advice about this.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/01/2022 11:09 am
olabisiawoyele
(@olabisiawoyele)
Active Member Registered
Posted by: @bill337

hi,

is there anything in your court order that states that the children's passports must be kept by mother? as far as am aware, a child can not have 2 passports, unless they have dual citizenship of another country. are you in UK? you could try apply for new passports for them. issues that may arise is application may ask for details of previous passport. if a child does have a valid passport at present, then chances are the passport office will reject your application for a new one.

you can try that route, or if mother is clearly breaking rules of court order by not co-operating about travel abroad and passports, you could try to apply for an enforcement hearing of court order, and try get an urgent hearing. If you end up missing your booked trip, it may be possible to seek compensation from your ex through the courts. You could seek some legal advice about this.

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 12/01/2022 2:23 pm
olabisiawoyele
(@olabisiawoyele)
Active Member Registered

Hi,

 

The court order does state that the children's passports are to be kept by the mother to which I had advised at the time that mother has been deliberately obstructive in the past and has been delinquent quite often with keeping with the orders in place over the last 8 years which I have never contested partly because of costs to be incurred or that they have little bearing on the quality of life of our children but I do not wish to continue along that line. My older son is 16 and will be 17 shortly after this trip, is considered an adult and can apply for a replacement passport by himself if he chooses to, stating that he is being denied access to his passport and can thus describe it as being inaccessible or lost. It is my younger son I am most worried about. I have taken the advice on board and will seek legal advice especially along the lines of seeking an urgent enforced hearing. Neither of the children have dual citizenship. We are all UK Nationals, including the mother

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 12/01/2022 2:28 pm
Champagne
(@champagne)
Estimable Member

My understanding is, that in these circumstances, children may not be taken out of the country without the written consent of the other parent

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/01/2022 9:11 am
olabisiawoyele
(@olabisiawoyele)
Active Member Registered

@champagne 

Thanks for your response. To shed some light on our issue with specifics, proceedings have been on-going for 4-5 years, finally coming to an end July 2021. In that time, both parents were instructed not to take the children out of England and Wales -save for a footballing school trip to Spain in 2018 which we both agreed to let my older son attend being an integral member of the school team. Previous and current orders had instructed the mother to retain the children's passports. However, last summer, this PSO was lifted and I requested clarity, ergo the order states that the only condition needed was a full and detailed itinerary of future trips to be communicated to the resident parent at least 8 weeks before departure, to be acknowledged and mother must make the passports available 2 weeks before departure. The order was made before my older son turned 16. Specific parts of the order states, and I quote from ear Par.

3. As <named son> attains the age of 16 on xx xx xx, and as parts of the orders below will then be of no legal effect from that date insofar as he is concerned, the following aspects, insofar as they refer to <named son> are recited as agreements between parties, the Court encouraging the mother to make <named son> available and both parents to facilitate him complying with these arrangements.

12. The Prohibited Steps Order preventing each parent removing the children from England and Wales is discharged, on the basis that both parents will a:) give 8 weeks' notice of their desire to take trips abroad with either of the children b:? supply full details of the trip to the other parent, c:) with the passports of the children being retained at all times by the mother and, d:) the passports returned to her forthwith upon the end of any such trip

 

My older son, 17 this year has expressed his desire to take ownership of his passport and other documents which he believes he is responsible enough to retain within his person but as I struggle to reconcile his desires with the instructions in the order and keeping both children together during travels, it would appear that the mother has chosen the divisive route and is being deliberately obstructive in facilitating travel for both children, at the same time. If I cannot request passports for both children, is my only recourse then to return to court this year? and at cost?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 13/01/2022 9:53 am
Bill337
(@bill337)
Famed Member

@olabisiawoyele hi, what you quoted above from the order, does that fall under the section for RECITALS, or does it fall under the section IT IS ORDERED? because if it is under recitals, often a parent can choose to ignore and not take seriously. anything under recitals can not be enforced by returning to court and making enforcement application. would have to return to court and ask to vary order, or apply for specific issues order etc.

if mother causes trouble with passports and you miss your booked trip, then you have option to return to court. you may want to seek legal advice, as I heard it's possible to recover your costs of a trip, if court orders your ex to pay you back.

This post was modified 2 weeks ago 2 times by Bill337
ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/01/2022 2:08 pm
olabisiawoyele
(@olabisiawoyele)
Active Member Registered

@bill337 

Thanks for your response. The sections fall under paragraphs which begins with IT IS ORDERED BY CONSENT...

Not sure if this is what you refer to?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 14/01/2022 3:24 pm
Bill337
(@bill337)
Famed Member

@olabisiawoyele yes I was referring to that. so if she is breaking any of the rules that are ordered there, you can apply to court for enforcement of order.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/01/2022 7:31 pm
Share:

Pin It on Pinterest