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clarify wording on this p.s.o please ?

 
bmwm-power
(@bmwm-power)
Estimable Member Registered

hi guys

my son had been placed in my care by police on 08/05/21 and  on 13/05 21 i applied online to court for and emergency pso and to vary order for him to reside with me due to safeguarding concerns

on 14.05 21 and it was granted but not sent out. i recieved the court order telling me i have a review hearing 06/07 and a fdhra on 18/08. i called the court to ask what the review was of...thats when they told me there was p/so in place. i asked for immediate copy on email.  so due this admin error...i had not seen my son since 25th may as ex took him from school and stopped all contact

i recieved pso and took it to school.

school were refusing to give me son saying the pso is in conjunction with the exisitng arragnements so its mums day, i said no because if that was case,,,the pso is contradicting it self why say she cant remove him from school and me...if the current order lets her do that?

 

so current arrangement is since aug 2017. child lives with mum. i have alternate weekends, midweek wendeaday and half school holidays

 

pso states 

 

The Respondent (xxxx) must not:

 

Remove the child (XXXXX) (dob xxx) from the care of the applicant (ME) or from any person or from any person or institution (including any nursery or school) to whom that party has entrusted his/her/their care other than for the purpose of contact agreed in writing between the parties or ordered by the court, in which event the child must be returned promptly at the end of each such contact period

 

Remove the child xxxx do.b xxxx from their current school.

Remove the child xxx from the united kingdom

 

does that mean she must not remove him from the school and me on my day of contact (as the school think) or not at all as there are no new court ordered arrangements

is it implying the original order is set aside...otherwise whats point saying...mum shouldnt remove him from my care or school on my day of contact...which shouldnt  be happening anyway

 

confused.

 

i called courts but the guy on phone said he cant clarify and  i have emiled in but school are being awkward and taking mums side so need clarity asap

 

 

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 16/06/2021 11:44 am
warwickshire1
(@warwickshire1)
Honorable Member Registered

I read it as contact goes ahead as normal , but theres a pso preventing her from turning up to school when you are supposed to have them. ie before you pick them up she shows up 30 mins early. Normally school would let mum have kids , your order states that she cant if its your day

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2021 2:31 pm

bmwm-power
(@bmwm-power)
Estimable Member Registered

i managed to get through to courts today ..spoke to someone different than yesterday who was more helpful

 

she said the p.s.o superseeds any existing arrangements as it stops someone doing something...not let them carry on as normal, so my current order states child lives with mum and i have contact as per schedule

 

this states mum must not remove him from my care or from school,  and the part she said about court ordered contact she stated that means that mum must return child to me after any court ordered contact...i.e that may be ordered after the pso so meaning child must remain in my care and can only have contact with mum if agreed by us both or the court orders it, until court says otherwise.

 

she said that it cannot be enforcing that one part of the order that mum must not take him from school (only) on fathers days as it would have used words to that effect  and she said  it would not have said must not remove him from fathers care if that was the case.

 

I got her name, emailed the courts too for clarification so il go with that . makes sense to me

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 16/06/2021 5:51 pm
Daddyup
(@Daddyup)
Honorable Member Registered

Hi

I think you should obtain legal advice as I'm not convinced the school or anyone will listen to the word of 'someone' at the court.

A PSO only prohibits something it does not define the arrangements in relation to the child. That is a Child Arrangements Order. Logically it doesn't make sense for a PSO to supersede a CAO otherwise why would everyone go back to court to vary a CAO rather than just apply for a PSO? If you have a CAO then the PSO would compliment it and run alongside it (if it conflicts then it is poorly worded and needs to be re looked at by the court) if there is no CAO then both parents have PR and you would need to obtain a CAO to define and legally confirm the arrangements and provide that to the school.

 

All the best. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2021 8:00 pm

how contact centres work

bmwm-power
(@bmwm-power)
Estimable Member Registered

i see what you mean. its preventing him from being removed from my care or from school

 

the original order stated he lives with mum and i have contact. so if it states  he cant be removed from my care..how can he live with mum? then. hence why the court said it supersedes it. and any new contact arrangements from court or agreed by parents will apply, until the review hearing 06/07/21

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 16/06/2021 9:15 pm
Daddyup
(@Daddyup)
Honorable Member Registered

As it stands you have an order that states when he is in your care, the PSO just prevents him being removed from your care during the period defined in the originally order.

I actually think it's something that is poorly worded and potentially rushed due to the circumstances and the mother is using the grey area to her advantage.. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2021 9:39 pm

top tips to support your child after breakup

bmwm-power
(@bmwm-power)
Estimable Member Registered

ok i understand, so it just defeats the objective of a pso then really and pointless, i have emailed courts for clarity from judge

 

...so it states, he cant be removed from my care or school except the times  when he lives with mum which is 70% of time lol why not say ..mum must not  stop father having contact on his allocated days or take him from school to prevent contact.  would have been easier.  wording is very contradicting. but il go by the assumption and what the court lady told me  i.e he must be in my care unless agreed contact and any new order and this supersedes old one.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 17/06/2021 1:02 pm
warwickshire1
(@warwickshire1)
Honorable Member Registered

Its just to scare mum into making sure she does handovers when your son not at school and to stop her going into school on days you meant to have your boy. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/06/2021 6:04 pm

Daddyup
(@Daddyup)
Honorable Member Registered

Hi

There are a lot of posts on this forum where the wording of the order is poor and doesn't cover what you need it to or contradicts..

Sometimes you just have to go back to court to revise it which isn't ideal due to time/cost but mothers usually use it to their advantage.. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/06/2021 6:54 pm
bmwm-power
(@bmwm-power)
Estimable Member Registered

well shes breached it anyway 

 

as my son disclosed the physical abuse on the 8th may. police told me to keep him in my care till told otherwise

i applied for emergency pso and to vary the cao for him to live with me based on the ongoing safeguarding issues. of 3 burns, previously, now the physical abuse of ear pulling/twisting, smacks to face and head regularly. cafcass lady said its excessive chastisement

 

i applied on 13th. and the social worker rang me to say return him and well do some work with her around behaviour management. i refused as i told her they had not put any safeguarding measures in , she has not shown proof of changing her ways and their is an ongoing repeated history os abuse.

i said i was exercising my pr to sageguard him

 

he reamined in my care till 25th , but then the social worker didnt like that i didnt comply to her instruictions and told my ex to go and get him early from school on 25th

all contact was stopped since that date including my full week of whitsun holiday 31- 6th

i only found out about the p/s/o on the 15th june as courts didnt send it out and went and got him from school

he is now in my care again. so she broke the p.s.o and kept him 25th may -15th june and if she accuses me of breach then i have a genuine reason i.e to safeguard my son as i felt that the authorites had failed to protect him and the abuse is ongoing and not stopped 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 18/06/2021 12:54 pm

how contact centres work

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