[Solved] Court Hearing - First hearing advice

Hi Boycieuk

The first hearing will be a Directions hearing, where the Judge will make certain directions as to what he may want to see, i.e. CAFCASS reports, Childrens Services reports, medical records (depending on the allegations raised by your ex. Are you attending earlier than the hearing to speak with CAFCASS before the hearing (did the notice stating the first hearing state that?)

Did you attend mediation before you issued the application? Is that why you think she will raise allegations?

What you should have with you are the documents that you already filed with the Court, the C100 etc.(mostly for your reference) and a pad of paper so that you can write down the Order that the Judge makes. In particular make notes of dates and when documents must be filed by as it can take a couple or three weeks for the Court to send you the Order, sometimes they give it to you on the day.

As to contact, did you ask for Interim contact in your application? If not, ask for it at Court, but also depends on what allegations, if any, that she raises as to whether the Judge would grant it.

As for a Barrister, this will depend on the area in which you live - or the Court you attend if it is not a local Court. There are Barristers Chambers all over the country. Not all had direct access, but I think many of them are changing that now with the changes to legal aid, I know my local Chambers has.

Hi Enya,

thank you for this. I submitted the C100 and did not note any CAFCASS directions. I have requested the notes from social services who closed the matter before it started. Didnt get upto the inital contact team even.

I attended mediation and had all sorts alleged so yes this is where I anticipate false allegations will arise. There were even outright lies in the solicitor letters.

I have been arrested twice but NFA, false allegations again. CCTV was my saving grace in the second false allegation.

My wife is saying she does not want contact for handover. I offered my relative (a senior social worker lol), she refused, I offered a police station as a point of handover (mainly for my own protection) - still no. She was offering a contact centre (which is open for 2 hours, two saturdays a month) and of course miles away! Unfortunately she is using the children as a tool to hurt me.

I live in London - if anyone can recommend someone please do!

To be honest Boycie, because the first hearing will be just to list directions (i.e. reports he wants to see, statements he wants filed) , I would also ask for interim contact, it wont be a chance or not much of a chance for allegations to be raised (this will be dealt with by way of statements) and because of finances I would honestly suggest that you don't worry about using a Barrister for this hearing, which will be in the region of £350 to £500 if not a bit more because you are in London. However, of course if you wish to, that is your decision. What area of London are you in?

Dear Boycieuk

You've had some really useful advice already. Just from my own personal experience, I too had allegations made against me by my ex partner. However, they were dismissed immediately as she could provide no evidence to substantiate her claims. CAFCASS is a stretched resource, as most public services are, so I would not think that they would involve themselves in your case unless there was some tangible evidence.

At my first hearing my former partner and I were asked to meet with a CAFCASS advisor in Court who attempted some mediation. My ex partner would not budge so our case progressed to a further hearing, however, in the mean time the Court did make an interim Contact Order so you should pursue this at your impending hearing.

The Court won't be looking for chapter and verse from you but it might be worthwhile just to prepare a short statement that you could read out, just outlining the facts and very brief. Also if you think there might be some allegations made about you, you could address this matter too in your statement. My ex had a solicitor in Court who gave a very long speech despite it only being a preliminary hearing. I had a huge bundle of papers with me and the one thing I forgot.....paper and a pen. I could barely remember all the lies he said that I needed to respond to so having something to write with is a must.

Again, as you have been advised, I really wouldn't go to the expense of a solicitor or barrister for this hearing. I represented myself all the way to the final hearing. At that point I decided to hire a barrister but I saved a fortune by doing all of the papers and representing myself up to that point.

Hi Boycieuk 🙂

Whilst the info you have been given is correct what you must always remember is that everyone's experience of court is different and it really is as good or as bad as the judge on the day. As much as it shouldn't be so, there are some judges that show a distinct bias towards the mother ...there have been Dads here that have had false allegations made against them without any evidence, and yet they have been penalised and have had contact suspended or ordered to be at a contact centre. I only tell you this so that you can be fully prepared for every eventuality, it's great that Doug had a good judge and wasn't made to answer to false allegations, but its not a given.

That said, the first hearing shouldn't be a lengthy affair, the judge does have the power to order you both back to Mediation , so this could be an option. As there has been some police involvement which she is likely to bring up, the judge may order reports to be carried out.

I know it seems very daunting but there have been many Dads here that have self represented and you will get lots of advice and support here....oh and it's free! 😉

Best of luck 🙂

Dear NJ and Enya,

many thanks for this. Any suggestions on how I can re-establish contact as handovers seem to be an issue.

I have had two false allegations and been arrested for common assault. NFA was taken both occasions. There was CCTV on the second false allegation. I was the person who has been attacked on multiple occasions but my solicitor has advised to take the moral high ground and focus on the kids.

She is refusing to directly handover the kids alleging I was aggressive (the most softly spoken person you would meet). I offered to handover at a police she declinced. I suggested a social worker relative as the handover - she refused. She then insisted on a contact centre of which there are only 2 which are open for 2 hours, two saturdays a month.

I was the main carer for the last 3 years and she wouldnt offer more than a few hours at mediation hence the application.

PS you were correct about CAFCAS they sent a letter saying they will be in touch......Any preparation for this?

Hi there 🙂

What is the method of communication with your ex?

It's very difficult to push for contact if she is refusing everything. It might be a good idea to accept her offer of contact at a centre, at least then you will have some contact even though its not what you want. You could ask your solicitor to write to her and say that you are prepared to go to any lengths to re-establish contact with your children and with this in mind will accept her offer of contact at a centre. Your solicitor can also say that you see this as a stop gap solution but will be pressing for unsupervised contact in court.

There are two types of contact centre, one is supervised which is monitored by a support worker and observed and reported on. The other is what's called supported contact and this is conducted with support workers around but not involved with the contact visit and no notes are taken, So it's far less intrusive.

As far as CAFCASS are concerned its likely to be a telephone interview. They will ask you about your past and about the allegations she has made....it's always best to be truthful about this and any other convictions etc as they will check with the police as part of their report. Remain calm and reasonable at all times and don't be derogatory towards your ex. When talking about your children try to come from the position of what is best for them. It's always good to mention that you feel that children do best when both parents are involved in their lives...that kind of thing!

Dear NJ,

many thanks - communication is by the solicitor.

The issue of contact is not supervision of the kids - it is only she does not want to handover directly so she wants a contact centre which provides a handover without direct contact between us. Hence all the other suggestions of using other people and now the childminder. If you or anyone could suggest anything else I would be grateful?

Its contrived because she previously handed over then just stopped.

Thanks also for the tips. I hope my personality will shine here, the two police incidents resulted in no further action. All I have is the children's best interest and they have a right to see their father as much as their mother and to improve contact given I was their main carer before I was forced out of the family home.

Have a good weekend.

I think your solicitor is correct that you don't make an issue of the false allegations, but you definitely have all of the evidence to refute it (including CCTV footage if possible) ready to hand in case she tries to use it suddenly in court.

The problem you face is that whatever you come up with, she is going to say no simply because it means you have more contact, whereas the contact centre would be an ideal handover if it wasn't for the fact that it would severely limit your contact. It might be worth seeking mediation on this.

eeeh...I can only answer for the courts where I live..if they differ...I am so sorry, but they really shouldn't do!!!

I so agree with what has been said by NJ and ACTD.. you must go with what your Solicitor advises you, I would stick to your guns, you have already proven that you were not at fault, I would continue to put members of your family up for hand-over and if that failed, you will have no opportunity but to go with contact in a public place, i.e. MacDonalds,or a Contact Centre,

Thanks these avenues had been exhausted already - using her mother in law in a public place. It was my saving grace as wife alleged I attacked her mum, despite not being present - fortunately CCTV was my saving grace in this instance. So I suggested police station to minimise false allegations as a point of handover, declined, then a social worker relative, again declined....so now suggested a childminder as a neutral person...awaiting reply 🙂

Well another suggestion would be that a relative of hers hands over to a relative of yours?

I cant see the point in denying social worker, because she could be reported, and her career in jeopardy if she started a fight! You can still put these people forward to the CAFCASS Officer too and the Court. She is only making herself look silly and difficult by behaving like this and CAFCASS and Courts will see it.

I think EnyaM makes a good point, bring up all of the options for handover that you have proposed when you get to court, she's turned down some very reasonable suggestions and it does make her look obstructive and unreasonable!

I would also say that when any suggestions are put to court, that there are backup arrangements also made just in case her preferred option can't make it for any reason - that will save you going back to court for a variation if it becomes a recurring problem.

Thanks for the suggestions, I have those three options plus hers....any other suggestions as methods of handover?

Does a barrister really make that much of a difference for a first hearing?

I want to avoid burning thousands - but it is looking more likely.

BW

...I cant think of any other handover suggestions, I think you've supplied an exhaustive list! ;;)

As far as a Barrister for the first hearing, many Dads forego legal representation initially, only using the barrister for the final hearing...I guess it revolves around how nervous you feel. If its a straightforward case the first hearing is doable on your own, or with a McKenzie Friend in tow. If you lack confidence and are feeling really daunted, or there are complexities to the case then having legal representation has its appeal.

I would go with the McKenzie Friend oprion for the first and a good Barrister for the final hearing...but its your cann and only you know what will be best for you.

Dear NJ,

the issue will be to reestablish contact and whether I will be listened too at a first hearing?

Typically close to court date wife has accepted my proposal and insisted on a restricted list of 3 childminders to hand the children over. She has contacted them saying I will pay for the full duration (despite only the 5 mins use to handover) and double on the weekend - so £80/week for 6 hours contact. Should I accept this or am I correct in thinking this is unreasonable?

Also do I need to prepare and issue any documents prior to the court hearing?

BW

Boycie

Hmmmm she seems very good at trying to spend as much of your hard earned as she can, it's a pity she's not as good at putting her children first! 😡

I think she is being unreasonable to expect you to pay for a full session each time you have contact. Would it be worth re-negotiating with the childminders in question directly, you might be able to reach a fairer agreement. It wasn't your wife's place to make that arrangement in my opinion.

There are no documents to prepare yet...as has been suggested previously, you could make a few notes on the issues surrounding your case. Use bullet points and list with the most important at the top. This is just to remind yourself and helps to prevent you from going off on a tangent....it's really quite emotionally draining and things can get forgotten.

The first hearing should be quite brief, I say brief but my son was there from 10am to 1.30pm at his first hearing in March! So it's best not to go with any preconceptions I think.

Usually the court advisor will attempt to get you both to reach agreement before going into court, her solicitor /barrister if she has one will want to meet with you...this can be daunting but just be polite and if they make you feel uncomfortable you can call the meeting to a close...the important thing is to stick to your agenda but be prepared to make acceptable compromises that can facilitate an early end to your case. Obviously the sooner agreement can be reached the better. 🙂

If you arrive in court early, as you are in London you may find that there is a personal support unit within the court. (PSU). You can telephone the court prior to attending and find this out. They are there to support you and may be able to sit with you before you go into court. You can google them and read up on the services they provide.

Heres a link to the PSU -

www.thepsu.org

Wow...she is so out of order expecting you to pay for the child minder! I don't think any Court would be happy about that either!

The first hearing will be brief...it will really be for the Judge to look at the situation, and make Directions, when he will want people to investigate, eg CAFCASS and you and she to file statements (if wanted), and by what dates they should be filed by. You do not need to do anything or issue any documents at this time.

As NJ says, keep a bullet point list of what you want to say (it will help to keep you focussed), don't go into too much detail, unless you are asked to (not at this stage). In particular keep a note of the people you have put forward for contact and that she has refused and that she has told you to pay for a child minder for hand over, which is unreasonable.

So I missed the small print......it was per child lol, had quotes of several hundred pounds for the honour of someone handing my kids over.

Would it be fair I ask that the children are handed over outside the house, ie put into a buggy - I wait in the car and collect them?

Its a bit of a game that with a childminder invariably we are going to walk past eachother to handover the kids. Its rather contrived and controlled and not in the best of interest to handover the children. Given I will be attempting to work towards shared contact the baby sitter will be doubling my salary in no time 😛

Any opinions welcome.

Also I am having second thoughts about a barrister for the first hearing. Quote is about 2K - best to save my cash or are they that worth it. I am reasonably articulate - but so is my wife and she is prepared to lie.

Per child?! surely not!!!

You would not be out of order to ask that handover take place outside the house, if you are happy with that, many parents do that. You go in, knock the door and go back and wait at your car, that is a public road/pavement, and safer for the children for you to take their hands

£2k for a barrister, you just have to be kidding me!! Whereabouts are you? Did you say London or am I making that up? What town (or area if its London) do you live in? I consider that to be very expensive .- where I live they would charge about £500-£750 for half a day. Which chambers did you ring, Lincolns Inn? LOL! I can see them being that expensive!

If you are articulate you could represent yourself so easily. This will be the first hearing, as I said previously the Judge my listen to a little of what you both say, I expect he will want you to file statements and other reports. So the first hearing will really be for the Judge to order what he documents/reports he wants to see. There will be very little for you to say.

As NJ says, keep a bullet point list of what you want/need to say.

...If you go in with a high flying barrister, and your wife is self repping, the judge might just see your response as over kill and it might backfire on you....I think you are more than capable of handling the directions hearing...save the big guns for the finale! 😉

Its SW London, but to be honest for a first hearing I have been getting quotes of between 2-6 for the 30 min hearing! Incl all their "prep work" and a conference prior.

I was hoping with a barrister I would have better chance of regaining contact and setting the tone that I want a shared residence.

If I rep on my own she is more likely to be obstructive I suspect. The one I have in mind is alright, not a big name.

Stick or twist?

I really think you should consider representing yourself and as NJ said, if you go in with barrister to a Directions hearing, and she is not or does not have anyone with her, it could be seen as a bullying tactic.

That is a lot of money for a 30 minute hearing, (I still think it can be done a lot cheaper than that!) where basically the Judge will tell you what he she wants. And a Barrister wont make any difference to that.

If you don't want to go in alone consider a McKenzie Friend, it's a happy medium. If you like I can ask the people I know to recommend someone for you?

My barrister charged me 2k for half a day - and I used him about 3 times. And that was on top of my solicitors fees. At the time, he was worth every penny 🙂

However, I agree with the above advice that you do it yourself if you can.