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Good Afternoon,
I would like some advice on possible outcomes of a Residence Order based on peoples previous experiences in similar situations if possible.
I have two young daughters (5 & 3 Years Old) to my ex partner. My ex partner has had alcohol issues since I met her 9 years ago, which eventually led to the dissolve of our relationship.
During her episodes of drinking, she has neglected my daughters on numerous occassions by passing out and leaving them to fend for themselves until she eventually wakes up, she has driven them in her car whilst intoxicated on several occassions.
Last year, I visited my ex partners home after becoming worried after not being able to contact my children on the telephone. I arrived early evening to find both of my daughters crying and their mother asleep (drunk) in bed. I removed the children from the house and notified social services and sought legal advice via a solicitor. I was advised to keep my daughters, which was my intention anyway. Eventually, I allowed my ex partner supervised contact on several occassions. I then allowed my daughters to spend an afternoon with their mother at their grandparents home on agreement that I collect them. Prior to collecting them, my ex partner contacted me to say that she was keeping the children and was issuing an emergency residence order and that I was not allowed contact until the court hearing.
CAFCASS and social services were involved and the outcome from court was that no residence order was granted to my ex partner as it was not in the best interests of safety for the children. I was able to agree regular contact through a court order and my ex partner had to take an undertaking to the court stating that if she intended to consume alcohol, she has to notify me.
Some months have past since then and last month, I was unable to reach my ex partner on the telephone. Eventually, my eldest daughter answered and told me that her mother was drunk. I drove to the property and also contacted the police. I arrived to find both my daughters crying and my ex partner intoxicated. The police arrived and said they would refer it to social services and I removed the children from her care.
I again sought legal advice and requested that my solicitor applies for a residence order for my daughters to remain with me. My daughters remained with me whilst I applied to local schools for mid term admission. I eventually allowed supervised contact with their mother. Last week, I agreed for my daughters to visit her family on written and verbal agreement that my ex partner allows me to pick them up. I received a telephone call stating that she was now keeping them and that she is applying for an emergency residence order and once again I am not allowed any contact until the court hearing.
My initial priority is to try and get the contact order given by the court last year to be upheld in order for me to see my daughters. I have informed my solicitor of this.
I am wondering whether anybody has been in a similar situation and what the possible outcomes of this are. I do not want my ex partner having a residence order as the children are at risk when they're in her care.
This is a very upsetting time, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards
Do you have Parental Responsibility of the children?
Personally I think you should be applying for your own Residence Order as well as enforcement of the Contact Order.
Your ex partner has behaved this way before, you have been perfectly reasonable in allowing supervised contact. Did your Solicitor apply for Residence?
The children are obviously unsafe with mother, social services are now involved, what are they saying? Personally I think your ex should be going through a detox programme, being drunk twice with police and social services involvement, she is unfit. I am assuming that the children remain with you with the agreement of social services, so taking them back and refusing to return them will not do her any favours, I would have thought she would have to prove to social services that she is sober now.
Whilst the court MAY grant an interim order, once the other authorities get involved, I think it highly unlikely that she will get RO. Have you heard from the Court whether she has applied for one? If she had, I should have thought you would have by now. You can fight the application on the grounds of her alcohol use/dependency.
There is third option of removing the children from school/nursery, but I probably not recommend that at the moment!
Hi,
Yes, I have parental responsibility of the children, as does my ex partner.
I am currently waiting for my solicitor to apply for a residence order and to enforce the contact order as soon as possible.
Social Services have stated that I have done the right thing by removing my daughters from her care. As soon as she refused to give me the girls back, I contacted Social Services who said they would perform an assessment. To my knowledge, this is yet to take place despite it being 5 days since I contacted them. Social Services are not very forthcoming in responding to my messages or telephone calls.
My ex partner claims that she has applied for a Residence Order and I should be issued with papers in the next couple of days. As to whether this is true or not, I do not know.
Kind Regards
then she has not applied for an Emergency Order. That would be dealt with in about 24/48 hours and you would have received an Order by now.
Blooming Social Services! If they have been involved previously, they should support your application particularly knowing that the police have been involved and they state that you did the right thing removing he children from her care and again, they wont support you, while they perform the assessment???!! No wonder Social Services make serious mistakes!!!!!!!!!!
I am afraid SS are rather slow to respond, there are so many children in need.
Have you spoken to any of her family about it? Have any of her family spoken to you about it? Do they have any views on her behaviour?
I suggest that should you get another call from your children, or you find out that she is drunk again, that you take the children, apply for an Emergency Order immediately. And not allow her any further contact until the Court has dealt with it. It will cost you £200 unless you are eligible for exemption from court fees.
She will not be eligible for legal aid, it no longer exists for children matters. So is she using a solicitor or submitted her own application do you think?
Hi,
She has advised that she has submitted her own application for an abridged residence order to save money. Last year, she was eligible for Legal Aid, so she wasn't too concerned about solicitors fees or how many court heardings were involved, whereas I paid for it all myself.
Her family have known about her issues with drink for years and each time there has been an incident, I have always included them in a bid to try and make her see she has a problem. I speak quite regularly with her sister and she is in agreement that I did the right thing for the safety of the children. But since my ex took them back I have not had any contact with her family.
Social Services haven't been in touch since I contacted them to advise that my ex partner had kept the girls. They did say that they would perform an assessment asap, but have not been in contact since I spoke to them. One Social Worker was very helpful and would often contact me and keep me informed of events, but when she is off or out then I receive little or no updates or progress.
It is very difficult at the minute not being able to see my daughters and not knowing how they are. I have asked my Ex Partner to get them to call me so I can talk to them, but she just responds back with "They dont want to, they're watching TV" etc.
I went through a shorter version of what you are going through some years ago - I removed my children from their mother at a time when she was drunk, well the police actually removed them at my request and kept them for a couple of hours until I could get there (I was a 3 hour drive away), and then immediately went for a residence order, granted after the second hearing. Contact was only initially allowed supervised at a contact centre. On EnyaM's timings, I wonder whether she has applied for the order at all. On the basis that the police have been involved previously, it might be worth seeing if you can speak to the officer who went last time, explaining the situation, and saying that you want to remove the children again and asking if they can assist - if you can time it so that your ex is likely to be drunk when you call round, it will make it easier for the policeto justify their actions. If you can achieve this, then prevent your ex from having direct contact and apply for the order yourself.
ACTD! how can you suggest such a thing! LOL! That was in my mind, but I thought perhaps I should not be that "biased" lol! And I would so second your suggestion.
The idea of an Emergency Application is that it is heard that day or the day after, for obvious reasons, i.e. child safety, domestic abuse, sexual abuse/violence etc, which is why I said 24/48 hours.
😆
I have "hypothesised" occasionally previously - as far as I am concerned, you do whatever you have to to keep a child safe as long as you aren't shooting yourself in the foot in the long term, and getting assistance from anyone in an official capacity is always going to make your case so much easier.
...I've got to agree with actd..talk to the police, their previous interventions will all be on record.
Yet again the SS are failing in their provision of care...if you get no joy with the police then I advise that you go into the SS offices personally and ask to speak to the Manager...there is a case for a Child Protection Order in my opinion, and although this is usually initiated by the SS a concerned parent can also apply for this to the court. I think you will need to be polite but very firm with the SS and remind them that they have a duty of care to the children.
You mention your solicitor, it seems to me that you spend an awful lot of time waiting for him to "do" something. How long does it take to submit an application to the court...He will already have the C100 and C79 forms to hand, 10 minutes to fill them in, straight into the post and voila! The Court would have them the following day!
Its a pity the younger child is not of school age, you could arrive early at school and take them back!
Heres a link to more info on child protection - www.protectingchildren.org.uk/cp-system/child-in-need/appropriate-emergency-action
I think one of my conerns is that when she has an episode of drinking (Of which there have been many), she will then throw herself into AA meetings and Alcohol Service meetings trying to prove to Social Services and family that she is going to abstain from drinking. She will eventually then become complacent and drink again. I am conerned that a judge will see that she is again attending AA meetings etc and the fact that she has just informed me that she has moved into a rented house by her family for support and has applied for a mid term submission to new schools for my daughters will all go in her favour.
The fundamental thing here is that she has been to AA meetings, Alcohol Service meetings, Support groups numerous times before and abstained from drinking for up to 5 months...then she will drink again, exposing my daughters to risk.
...I think you must push hard with the SS...Go to the Manager, remind them that this is a matter of serious safeguarding issues, the children are at risk and they need to act on their previous recommendations that the children should be with you. Tell them you will take it to your MP if nothing is done, consider going to see your MP about this...they are failing in their duties! 🙁
your ex is to be applauded for the fact that she is attending AA, but it only takes one binge sessions to put your kids back in danger again, so the fact that she is doing this repeatedly is not a safe or suitable environment for your children. And that's also what I'd tell the police, SS and courts.
...Everyone is entitled to a second chance, but she has had that and more...she is a repeat offender and in my opinion she will slip back again. You must do what you can to get them back and keep them safe, but as actd says you need the authorities on side and willing to act...
If things dont go your way in court, and theres no way of knowing which way they will go... you should be asking for regular liver function tests and close monitoring.
Please keep us updated, we are all behind yopu 🙂
Believe me, I have given her numerous chances over the years and she has always reverted back to drinking which ultimately leads to another incident of placing the children in danger. At the moment, she is throwing herself into any support or help group she can, however I've seen exactly the same thing several times before.
I urgently want my daughters back, I've not seen them or been able to speak to them since last Friday and I am really missing them. I know they will be missing me too.
I am expecting a phone call from Social Services this morning. I've been waiting for a call back from them since Monday! I've explained the situation to them again and keep getting the same response that the person dealing with it is out on home visits and its this person who I need to speak with as they know the case. It is so frustrating.
I would like to thank you all for your posts and comments, they're really helping. Thank you for your support. I'll keep this post running and updated.
...If after talking to the case worker you are not satisfied, ask to see their Manager. Best of luck and yes please, do keep us updated 🙂
Ive now spoken to the case worker and fully explained the situation. They are going to obtain the police files from each time the police have been called to my ex partners house and also liaise with CAFCASS to obtain their report from last years court hearings. I will keep you all posted.
And if you get a call from your children again, remove them, and don't allow her contact (unless supervised if you want to and i.e. at a Contact Centre).
Thank goodness! At least something is getting done...its the inactivity thats so hard to take.
I doubt she will give you the opportunity to be able to take the children back, but if that opportunity arises I would most certainly take it!
As far as allowing her supervised contact as EnyaM suggests, I wouldnt allow that , just get straight to court for the Residence Order and request that contact only be allowed with supervision because of the risk of abduction.
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