Thank you so much mojo ,
Cafcass told me don't worry about the name of the course just think about it as this course will move the contact forward between you and your son so I don't think really that will be any harm having the course ,
Because not having the course will show that I am not working with them as you said before,
After the course my ex will not have any excuse why contact can't be unsupervised.
Cafcass said after 3 month of the course I will review it and I will make an assessment to see if contact arrangement needs to be changed or increased ,
My question is during the course or after the course do they give us exams and we have to pass it or how they will review it with me ?
How will they understand I made any progress at the course or not,
Because she told me if o made progress after the course or half way the contact will increase,
Any one have this course can give me any advice please.
Or you mojo know how it works??
Thank you so much for your help I do appreciate it .
I don't think there's any exams, you will be assessed by the course tutor as it progresses I think. I would imagine there will be discussions about certain behaviours and how changes can be made, as long as you get involved with the course and the discussions and can show that you are thinking about what is being said and contributing to the course, you should be ok.
Hopefully there will be others that have direct experience of the course that can share their experience with you.
Thank you so much mojo for you help and support ,
Will keep you updated ,
Hi Mojo and every one ,
Had a Direction hearing thing morning ,
To remind you cafcass recommended to move contact from supervised to supported contact
And recommended that I take ( Domestic abuse prepetator programme) to learn more about my behaviour and controlling and that which will take 6 month ,
Judge asked cafcass officer if I agree to take it and she said it seems yes from my understanding,
Then judge spoke with me and I said I will take the programme but i want to know what should happened after the 6 month if I make progress in terms of spending more time I mean,
I said I don't want to waste 6 months and after the course nothing will happen if I made progress,
He said that Iam right ( you don't want to waste 6 month if this programme will not make any progress)
His decision was to adjourn this hearing for 5 weeks untill I take suitability assessment to see if this course will benefit me or not and to understand more about the course ,
And he put everything on hold interms of contact,
The current contact and arrangement to stay the same which is supervised contact and to wait untill next hearing after 5 weeks and if iam suitable to have the course then he will decide how the contact will be during the 6 month,
If I'm not suitable then he said he will make the decision interms of the contact ,
My questions now why the judge didn't move the contact to supported contact during those 5 weeks as me and the other party agreed to move it to supported contact And cafcass recommended that why he decides to wait untill to see if iam suitable to take the course or not ???
Also I can't understand what means suitable ??
When I will be suitable and when I will not be ??
And in my case is it good thing to do all my best to be suitable ?? To take this course and move things forward ???
Or it's better to be not suitable and don't waste 6 month of my life the end of it will change nothing??
What is suitable and not unsuitable please ,
Sorry if my questions are stupid,
Ya forget to say judge actually said we both are intelligent parent and love our son so much,
And said to my ex soliciotor that the father doing his best as he can to reassure your client ( he meant that I will not remove my son from this country )
Please mojo and every one can help tell me what do you think about what happened today ,
And what should I do,
Many thanks in advance
The courts are always very cautious, it's not unusual for them to keep contact at the same level whilst they look into something.
Deciding whether you're suitable is the same as being assessed to see if you will benefit from the course. They will want to know if you understand why you have been referred to the course and if agree with the reasons why you were referred. With courses like this, they expect that the person accepts responsibility for the things that they did to cause the problem.
Only you can decide if you are able to do the course and whether it will help you. Nobody can give you a guarantee that if you do it you will get the outcome that you want at the end of it.
If the judge understands that you love your son and are doing your best to reassure your ex, that is a good sign that he will want to see this case go well for you and your child.
All the best
Hi Mojo,
Thank you for your answer ,
So you think it's normal for the judge to keep contact at same level untill he looks at my suitability,
The thing is I pay over £70 per hour and it's too much money and judge never put this in his consideration.
I really can't understand why he didn't move it as he know that iam desperate to move contact forward ???
In terms of having the DAPP course I know it's only me who can decide to have it or not ,
Iam not really sure of this to be honest,
I don't know why I should take Domestic abuse course and the main concern for my ex is me removing our child from this country asI reassured her I will not do it and done alot to prove that as mentioned on my previous posts,
How learning about behaviour and controlling will reduce the risk of me abducting my son.
My important question here is ( what is the impact on me if I admited I put pressure on my ex and I was controlling and that affected her and our son ) as you said I have to admit and take responsibility of my previous action to be suitable for the course but ( how will that impact in my future if I admit yes I was abuser and I want the course to change my behaviour )...
Will the judge look at me as I am bad person and I admited i was abusive
I really don't want to admit I was controlling or abusive because i wasn't but they see I was.
And what if i found unsuitable to have the course??
Is it a bad thing to be unsuitable to have the course that cafcass recommended it ???
And what do you think what will be the judge decision if I found unsuitable ??
I really don't know what to do to take the course And if yes what will be the likely contact arrangement during the 6 month from the judge point of view ?
Will he follows cafcass recommendation to move contact from supervised to supported ???
I mean is it possible to move contact to supported if iam taking a court like this ( DAPP)
And if I found unsuitable what will be the court and cafcass reaction ??
What will you advice me please to take the course or not and how that will affect me in the future ??
Is it good thing or bad thing ?
Is the judge waiting to find Ian suitable or he actually wish that I will not be suitable.
Sorry for my lots of questions they maybe the same but I am so lost and I don't know what to do when I get the referral .
Thank you for support
Hi Mojo and every one ,
Just quick update ,
I had an assessment yesterday for my suitability for ( better building relationships programme )
If you remember my story the judge found I put pressure on my ex leaving our son with my family in a diffrent country and I said that I don't agree with that and I thought we agreed about it me and my ex,
So to be honest I said the same thing again to the lady yesterday because this is the truth ,
I know it's a fact that the judge found I put pressure on my ex but i cant say yes I did it because I didn't put pressure and I thought we had agreement to leave our son with my parents ,
Second thing my ex made allegation that I shoved her on occasions and I was aggressive when the programme tutor asked me that again I said noooo it didn't happen because it didn't and there was no prove of it,
I told her cafcass told me think about this programme as it will move the contact forward with your son but my ex wife main concern is a flight risk so I don't know how this programme will help me and my son,
I told her I am so open to have the programme if it will benefit me and my son and will make the relationship between me and ex better so she knows that i am motivated to have this programme if it will help me and my son or if it will benefit me in general.
She told me the programme will talk about behaviours about how not to be abusive and not to be control anyone and not to be violence and she said that I am denying my ex allegation which she think I might not be suitable for this course ,
She thought this course might not benefit me,
She told me think about what happened in the past and we can meet one more time next week to discuss it again and for her to think about it this programme will benefit me or not ,
So i think it's a big part of being suitable is to accept the allegation which I don't want to accept it because it's not true ,
But at the same time I told them I am motivated to take the programme if it will help me and my son and improve the relation between me and ex and benefit me.
She sounded she is not sure if the course will benefit me or not as she said some people in this course will have convections and maybe the things we will talk about nothing to do with you,
I told her cafcass think if I take this course they will increase the contact between me and my son and cafcass think that this course will be benefit me but you think I might be not suitable ,
She said cafcass doesn't know alot about the programme and that they have more experience about deciding if this course will benefit me or not,
My question now that cafcass lady has a big hope and she is sure that I will be suitable so what if i will not be suitable???
What will be her reaction??
Last hearing judge said let's see if you are suitable or not,
Then if you are suitable I will decide how the contact will be during the 6 month course ,
And if you are not suitable I will decide how the contact will be and we even can go to contested hearing Or put a date for a final hearing,
Carcass recommendation on s7 report wa to move contact from supervised to supported during the course if I will be suitable ,
If Iam not suitable what might happen at the next hearing ????
Many thanks in advance and really sorry for my long post again,
Looking forward to hearing from everyone who will be able to advise me what should I do?
Is it a bad thing if iam not suitable???
Or a good thing I don't really know
I think it would depend on why they say it wouldn't be suitable for you.
If they say you are not willing to accept the court's findings etc, the judge could potentially take a dim view of it but if they say being a flight risk is the reason it's not suitable, the judge might agree.
Hi Yoda,
Thank you for your reply,
The judge finding was that I put pressure on my ex leaving our son with my parents in diffrent country which in his view was a sort of abduction,
Is it worth having this course ??
My ex allegation about me being aggressive and shoved her and bla bla it's not even mentioned on the the judge judgment, So there is no prove of what she is saying which I denied anyway ,
I will say to the programme tutor while she assessing me next time , ( I didn't put pressure on my ex and I thought we agreed But the judge found that I did put pressure on her do I have to accept it ?? Or maybe I put pressure on her without feeling to do so ))
If you think the programme will benefit me I will be open and happy to have it ,
But if will not benefit me then there is no point taking it,
To be honest yoda i don't want to accept somthing I didn't do or I didn't mean to do it.
So what you advice me Yoda??
Is it good thing to be suitable for the programme ???
The programme tutor not sure if the programme will benefit me or not ,
CAFCASS recommendation was to move the contact from supervised to supported and she is willing to move contact forward during and after the course if iam suitable ,
If I'm not suitable will that change her recommendation???
I have told the programme tutor I am motivated to have the course if it will benefit me and my son ,
I don't feel good being suitable and take course for somthing I didn't do but i feel it can move contact forward as cafcass said to me,
And also worried to be not suitable to lose the chance they offer me and to look like i don't want to learn and not accepting the judge judgment and take a dim view of it as you saying .
I hope someone can advice what is the right thing to do ,
Because my brain can't take it anymore
Sometimes it's better to engage in programmes and sometimes it isn't. It's very difficult for us to comment so specifically as we weren't at the hearing and therefore don't know the judge's reason for finding against you.
It's not our place to tell you what to do, but as Yoda has said, the court may take a dim view if you don't accept their finding. CAFCASS have also recommended that you take this course, and have suggest that it will help with contact.
However, from your post, I get the distinct impression that because you don't agree with the judges decision, you are finding it really hard to accept any of the allegations, this is a key part of getting on the course and if the course tutor thinks you don't accept them, she is likely to find that you're unsuitable.
Thank You Yoda,
Thank you Mojo for you help,
I will keep you updated ,