the stuff about kids playing 18 rated games is quite petty in grand scale of things. I was guilty of letting kids play an 18 rated game, because horse riding is fun 🙂 ex, Court/Cafcass moaned about that. I said fine, kids will no longer play that game.
as daddyup listed, I would go with option 2. It would be the quickest route. You could seek legal advice on this. They will probably say as everything has gone against you, unfortunately you now have to jump through hoops to be with your children again. Court will not accept any appeals because you are unhappy with their decision.
Some final points, no matter what route you go down:
Language - appreciate you are saying this on the forum but learn to mirror the expert's language which is child friendly and review insight, blackmail, violent, Harassment etc these all mean something very specific to the experts.
Controlling and Coercive Behaviour - look up the definition of this, the research behind this, the legislation. Its not just being violent, some of the examples presented in the report are examples of this and you will need to evidence to refute.
Co-parenting - in one of your previous posts you mentioned that you cannot co parent with the mother. If that is the case then even if you succeed on all aspects then you will still find contact restricted as if you cannot co parent in a child focused manner then the courts will find it difficult to grant any meaningful access. Imagine if your child has a fever and you do the right thing and get them checked by Dr who advises to observe for 48 hours (maybe give meds etc). If you have to return child to mother during this time and do not effectively communicate what happened, the advice given and the need to observe for 48 hours (even in a contact handover book) then the court will think it is not in the childs best interest for you to have any direct contact.
Hi, I've just spent a long time reading through your thread and have deleted quite a few of your posts that contain a lot of detailed information.
Proceedings are confidential and you could get in a lot of trouble for sharing that information.
I think you might need to take a step back, check your language and try to take on board some of the very good advice you have been given here.
Best of luck
Thanks for removing it, I will re-add it with the names removed.
I feel this is were fathers are getting stung, you have the solicitors who see these files day in day out and can work out what to do.
to the average dad going in blind with no finance available other then the internet, it is best that it gets published for those fighting false allegations and see what courts are really like.
I have no intention of being blackmailed into doing the course and will continue to fight this NMO appeal. You have seen what they have said about the dog and I wouldnt be surprised if they got a non molestion order on the dog the way things are going.
I find the family courts generally fair. Yes at start they can appear biased and on mums side , but this is due to the fact they have to act on the err of caution normally due to concerns and issues raised. If you are polite,child focused and patient and respectful then in end family courts do end up helping a lot of dads who otherwise wouldnt be seeing their children unless an order was made in interests of children.
i wouldnt be appealing as it is going to cost you a lot of money and get you nowhere. Once a decision has been made it is nearly always final unless there are serious errors been made . Unfortuantely find a fact hearings can sometimes leave either parent hard done by as its only if it is likely to have happened or not. I find the best way to get anywhere in court quicker is let other side raise all the allegations and not to counter back , but fully focus on what child arrangements you wish to end up with and how to see your children as quick as possible.
Hope you change your mind and take the first steps to hopefully seeing your kids again
The other thing to remember is that challenging is the option that will take the longest due to appeals, evidential requirements, delays and backlogs at court etc.. Even if you do win, because you won't have seen the kids for 6 to 12 months, the courts will say you have to build up contact which again will take you much longer. It could be 12 to 18 months before you even start to have supervised contact. If you lose on appeal then it will be even longer.
update
Nov 2021 - Submitted Enforcement order as mother failed to allow contact on more the 7 occasion. court scheduled the hearing to be heard at the same time as the final hearing on 14th Feb 2021.
14th Feb 2022 - Court dismissed the enforcement order on the basis it was for the childrens safety??? utter [censored].
Cross examined the cafcass officer and she was completly bias towards the mother. even showed them where she lied on her statements and completly ignored them.
Cafcass then recommended that it should change from once a month video call to Indirect contact once a month.
I disagreed and offered contact once a week, for 1 month, then 2 days with midweek pick up for 4 weeks then overnight weekend stays.
Judge setup another final hearing for 18th of March 2022
So at the moment they have written an order for Indirect contact till 18th of March, where as before it was phone calls everyday from 6 to 6:30pm.
Come 18th March I will still be refusing to do the DAPP course as it has been based on lies and cannot see any guratnee access even when the course has been completed.
@liarliarpantsonfire having re read the thread and the advice given, based on the allegations and refusal to do the DAPP plus focusing on proving lies etc I can see why the court may have amended the order to indirect contact. Unfortunately it is just the way the courts/cafcass/judges will see things.
Things will only change in your favour if you focus on the bigger picture (seeing the kids), play the system to your advantage (accept without evidence you are in this position and therefore need to follow the processes determined) and build a relationship with your kids so that in the future if THEY raise the matter that you talk them through your version of events and let them decide.
In the absence of doing the above, it appears (to the courts etc) that your main objective is to prove the mother/cafcass/courts wrong rather than focusing on the kids and seeing them which in itself could be considered a safeguarding issue and therefore the mother feels the need to stop contact to keep the children safe.
Im sorry you are in this position it cannot be easy, however, I would suggest taking a step back and reflecting on your next steps as other posters have previously advised.
All the best.
Hi
I had the final court hearing on 18th of March, I continued to refuse the DAPP course, which I no regret as they are now only providing indirect contact once a month.
How can i appeal now and tell them I will accept the DAPP course.
Not been able to eat properly, crying everyday. psychiatrist booked in for tomorrow. Getting very desperate to the point I message the ex to apologies and sent her Mothers day card despite the NMO in place! I think I have screwed up and right no don't care about losing my job. I feel she is keeping me out of Jail now to keep the child maintenance going otherwise I would of been arrested now from the text message i sent her.
Hi,
Pleased you've reached out again. It must be really tough.. If you are going to accept doing the Dapp programme at this stage then I think you need to tackle things differently to ensure maximum success. The last thing you want to do is do the course and still find issues with contact. In essence you need a plan/strategy to move things forward. What is the reason for seeing a psychiatrist rather than a counsellor? You may need to take some time out from the situation re trying to see your kids and instead focus on getting yourself well and in the right frame of mind for the upcoming challenges. Things will be tough before they get better, the course itself isn't just about attending but also participating and accepting things. You may be asked to talk about aspects of your behaviour in a group setting and your ability to do this will determine the reports produced and whether you ultimately get any child contact.
Therefore having a plan will allow you to focus on moving forward with your life with a view to getting contact with child. Otherwise there is a risk that having denied things right the way through, that you are now conceding not because you accept things but out of desperation which the experts will pick up and report on. On the other hand, if you are in the right place then you can pretty much fly through the course even partially accepting things without it having too much of an impact on you as you will know this is something you are having to do in order to get contact (say and do what you have to, regardless of what may or may not have happened).
You don't need to appeal the hearing but instead revisit your existing application (I'd suggest contacting the court or legal advisor). If you give it a little bit of time since the hearing eg 4 weeks, then in the meantime you can focus on yourself and when you contact the court you can confidently say that you have given it lots of thought and now accept what has happened and wish to do the course.
The process down this route may mean further court hearings or you may be accepted directly onto the course (you may want to speak to Cafcass for guidance here), there may be a waiting list, but also remember that you may not get any contact until you are half way through the course (roughly 3 months as course is 6 months long) and the interim report on you is written up by the course facilitators. This is really important hence your engagement on the course is reviewed.
In relation to the texts and cards and the NMO, I would strongly suggest that you do not make any further contact as you otherwise risk arrest. Should this happen (arrest/conviction etc) then it will severely impact your ability to contact child as you will be considered a dangerous individual where even court orders have no impact. Not only would you need to do the course but contact may be supervised and slowly built up.
Also give consideration to what indirect contact looks like, just so that you do not leave it too long and it will also help you to process things and take a step forward and build from this. Plus when you start the course ask whether you can get any direct contact at all even supervised so that it is built up whilst you are doing the course.
I hope the above helps.
All the best.
Ps, I know in your message you said you don't care about losing your job, however, at some point you will get contact with child. Your job will provide an income for you to provide for child when with you, will give you stability and a routine when not with child, will allow you to focus on something other than the situation. As long as its financially feasible then try to hold it down. If you need some time off then arrange that and go away to recharge and plan.
Looking through your thread, there is a lot of bitterness which is understandable but at some point you have to turn things around and take a different approach/strategy. Think of the long game which is getting contact.
Even when you do get contact, until child is at least 18 I would suggest you remain child focused and avoid saying anything about your relationship with ex to avoid losing contact again and having to go through all this.
I know it's not going to be easy, the journey will be long, but you can defo do this.
Daddyup
thanks, how can i appeal or go back to the court to say i will do the course?
I have emailed the courts and not getting any response from them.
I going to walk to their office in east london and ask for them to look at it.
Can anything be done after the final hearing has been set??