Have to agree with MOAF on all the above really. Ultimately, you can either let this continue or take steps to change it. If you need to rant, keep posting, we are here to listen and support....
Hello paulfoel,
In my message, not the last one but the one before that, I suggested you say to father about coming on Boxing Day because it would be better than Christmas Day. I added a further sentence a few minutes after posting which said, quote, " Father may question you as to why, my reply would be, there is a possibility this year that we may go out for the day so I need to keep the day free." My apologies, I didn't indicate I had made an addition to the message so I think you may have missed that bit.
Please do not interpret what I now say as being critical or judgemental. It can be extremely stressful dealing with an older person and the demands made of a particular family member, in this case you.
Why is it you? I believe it is because you do your utmost to meet his unreasonable demands and in so doing unwittingly feed the circle that exists, to a point where it has become a "demand and supply" situation which is not healthy for either of you. The circle needs to be broken and a sensible balance to your life introduced.
You have commitments and responsibilities to your wife, children, father, yourself, work and other people possibly. Consequently you cannot allow yourself to be consumed with worry for one person only or allow them to detract you from the attention others need from you and importantly the care you need to give yourself.It is to your credit you care so much for your father. However, I believe you need to know when to say yes to him and when to say no.
Ask yourself each time when father makes an unreasonable demand of you or his behaviour is not good, if he is being fair and reasonable? If you think he is not, I personally would be very calm, kind, truthful and FIRM and say you are unable to do it but offer to make alternative arrangements. This he will accept or choose not to. He has been assessed as being mentally capable, therefore he is aware and it is his right to make the choice. Likewise, there isn't anything wrong in saying to him "I do not like you talking like that" (re.. dog killed the cat tale, told when eating dinner). To do this is not being unkind it is being fair and reasonable which I think is a good yardstick to use.
N.B. When saying this I am excluding there may possibly be an underlying medical condition which could in some cases manifest itself in a person appearing to be demanding or behaving in an unacceptable manner in which case medical help should be sought.Children can "run rings round us" if we let them and so can older people too if we allow them to.
It is a very hard thing to say no and stand back from a situation but there are occasions when it is necessary.
Cheers. Thanks for the help here - much appreciated.
As you said, I'd do anything to help my Dad if I could. But its difficult when his demands are unreasonable or unfair. Likewise, when I try to help him makes things easier and he refuses. He wont let me help him sometimes.
Which is why its difficult to justify to my wife. If he REALLY needed me to do something she would be the first to tell me to go and help him. BUT when its something that can be done an easier way and he doesnt fancy that idea then I can see her point. To be honest, the xmas day thing where we always have him and I spend a lot of the time driving is a little unfair. Wife is fine with him coming boxing day, and when our youngest is older (shes 4 now) xmas day is fine - I can see her point. But he won't
As you say, he has been assessed as being ok so its not that.
Have to agree with MOAF on all the above really. Ultimately, you can either let this continue or take steps to change it. If you need to rant, keep posting, we are here to listen and support....
Cheers. π
Its difficult sometimes. No-one wants to upset their elderly parent. But he doesnt half cause me a lot of stress and worry.
Bit of a rant then. He was ill before xmas. Started off as cough then morphed into something else. Sore legs, unable to swallow (?). He miust have called the GP to his house about 10 times, phoned 999 a few times, got taken to A&E a few times. Each time they sent him home. He wasn't happy with that - was convinced he was so ill he should be in hospital (medical professionals obviously disagreed).Of course, during that time I got it off him too. (I think I mentionen the threat to call 999 on xmas day because he was dying he thought). Very stressful.
In the end. GP refused to come out any more. I told him this would happen. Ambulance people used to just send someone a few hours later. (Hes probably on a blacklist somewhere). He was not happy at all.
Then, oen day, had a call from hospital. He'd fallen over and banged his head. This was 1pm in the afternoon - I was working 80-90 miles away. They wanted me to come and get him in the next hour. It would have taken me at least 2-3 hours to get train, pick up my car and drive to hospital (plus wife was in work and I was picking daughter up later). So I said no.
I did see him a few days later. Very minor cut on head which, apparently, he'd banged on cupboard. To this day, I'm pretty sure he "took a dive" to get some attention and to get into hospital. It was just too much of a co-incidence and too convenient.
Was thinking the other day. Things which dear old dad says which make people laugh even if its not funny at the time. Here's a good collection from him:-
After having eating problems and GP advising him to try non-solid food and avoid meat (which he couldn't chew") - "I'm getting weaker and weaker - thing is if I don't eat meat I won't be getting all the vitamins I need". I did point out that I haven't seen many vegetarians keel over in the street recently!
"Taxis are not for people like us". I laughed at this one - didn't know the class system was so strict in this country! My grandparents were coal miners from the welsh valleys, he worked in a factory all his life, I work in an office as an IT consultant so its a bit different for me (Im fortunate not to work underground after all!)
This was his response to my suggestion that I'd pay Β£10 for a taxi to take him to hospital appointment rather than I drive 65 miles from work.
"Your brothers got a new job. Good money too - over Β£100 a week". I couldn't stop laughing at this one.
When Social were going to fit a walk in shower for him and wanted Β£800 contribution off him. He thought Β£800 was the full cost - in truth it was over Β£3K "Β£800 to fit a shower - thats daylight robbery. Should be Β£200-Β£300". As if he knows.
"You must be rich having that much money to pay on petrol" Watching me in the petrol station as I fill car up with Β£80 of Diesel. I don't bother explaining it goes on credit card which gets paid off monthly anyway. And not sure how he think I'm going to get to work otherwise! Common thread about money here!
EVERY SINGLE TIME I PHONE HIM USING HANDSFREE BLUETOOTH IN THE CAR. "Where are you?""In the car Dad". "Are you using your mobile?" . "Yes Dad - your on handsfree - remember I explained it?". "You're going to get a ticket - you're not allowed to use your mobile when you're driving!" Aaaaaaaaaaaarrgggghhhh!
Probably his best ever one is when I told him wife was pregnant with our daughter. Bearing in mind, she was 42 at the time (So we're not kids - been married over 20 years").
"What? She can't be - shes too old. Its not safe to have kids over 40. What did the hospital say? So why on earth did you do that? You need your head read. Can you afford it?" Cheers Dad! lol.
Hello paulfoel,
I appreciate your message portraying both yours and father's sense of humour.
As you have illustrated well, there is a lot of good natured humour to be had, enjoy it.
Do try and get the balance in your life back using the yardstick, "is it fair and reasonable." and accordingly make an appropriate decision when assessing father's demands. You'll all be a lot happier if you do.
A fond memory of my late dear Aunt who suffered memory loss albeit she always knew who I was, I realized it would be the last time she would stay overnight with me. She slept in my bed and with her safety in mind, being in an unfamiliar house, I slept on a mattress in the doorway of the bedroom with a light on in case she got up in the middle of the night. I was exhausted at the end of the day, her sister, my Mother was also staying (both in their 80's), she slept in another bedroom, husband on the sofa. Time for bed, eager for sleep, I was tired out having been working all day doing the chores and cooking etc. Everyone in bed ..... what happened ..... Auntie thought it was lovely us all being together and kept saying, "This is lovely all of us together." My reply, "Yes it is Auntie." the same comment was repeated time and time again and my reply also. I lay thinking, "she will go to sleep in a minute., she will." ..... three hours later she did.
To be honest sometimes he does make me laugh with some of the stuff he comes out with but sometimes he infuriates me.
I find that, at the moment, I can deal with him. Hes rude but I just ignore him mostly but its difficult with other people. Im on edge whenever hes at our house because of he behaves and what he says.
Like I said, wife is good as gold but his behaviour has crossed the line once or twice. And as I've said on this thread some of his demands are just beyond.
I agree with you about the reasonable thing - its just at the back of mind all the time.
I KNOW his behaviour was awful last xmas day. I also KNOW that his demands on xmas day where I picked him etc could be said to be a bit unreasonable to expect it every year when he other options. I also KNOW that it could either way if he did come xmas day - he might be ok or he might be like last year. I KNOW my wife has been very good in the past but I know that if he played up this time it'd all go off.
Your Dad sounds lonely and fearful of dying alone, hence his excessive calls to GPs and his demands on you. His generation of men didn't express their feelings, he doesn't know how, so it comes out in his demands.
His outlook echoes how things were, he has little understanding of how things are today and again this shows in his expectations of you. In times past, families took on much more of a caring role than they do now,...we lead much busier lives and things aren't as simplistic as they once were. I'm quite sure, in his mind, what he expects isn't out of the ordinary, its what people did in his day.
I cared for both my parents, they both passed away at home as was their wish, my mother was diagnosed with cancer and her passing was quite quick after diagnosis, just over three months... but my dads illness was much, much slower, he gradually lost the ability to look after himself, I moved in with him for the last few months, putting my family on hold to do this, but as I say not everyone can do it and I wouldn't dream of judging, or applying my own principles.
My Dad wasn't demanding, but he refused home help and wouldn't go to hospital even when he was poorly, so I did it all, for several years we had Christmas at his bungalow, it was easier that way. I did everything for him in the end, but I looked upon it as a priviledge, to be able to look after him in a way that he wanted, and enabling him to remain in his bungalow right to the end. Many of my friends would often say that they couldn't have done the same, but that's ok too, as I've said it was a very personal decision for me.... by nature I'm a very calm and patient person, but I was tested at times and I appreciate it's not for everyone.
All I can say is to try and walk a mile in his moccasins, but at the same time don't beat yourself up if you can't fulfil his every wish, just do your best and maintain that sense of humour.
All the best
Your Dad sounds lonely and fearful of dying alone, hence his excessive calls to GPs and his demands on you. His generation of men didn't express their feelings, he doesn't know how, so it comes out in his demands.
His outlook echoes how things were, he has little understanding of how things are today and again this shows in his expectations of you. In times past, families took on much more of a caring role than they do now,...we lead much busier lives and things aren't as simplistic as they once were. I'm quite sure, in his mind, what he expects isn't out of the ordinary, its what people did in his day.
I cared for both my parents, they both passed away at home as was their wish, my mother was diagnosed with cancer and her passing was quite quick after diagnosis, just over three months... but my dads illness was much, much slower, he gradually lost the ability to look after himself, I moved in with him for the last few months, putting my family on hold to do this, but as I say not everyone can do it and I wouldn't dream of judging, or applying my own principles.
My Dad wasn't demanding, but he refused home help and wouldn't go to hospital even when he was poorly, so I did it all, for several years we had Christmas at his bungalow, it was easier that way. I did everything for him in the end, but I looked upon it as a priviledge, to be able to look after him in a way that he wanted, and enabling him to remain in his bungalow right to the end. Many of my friends would often say that they couldn't have done the same, but that's ok too, as I've said it was a very personal decision for me.... by nature I'm a very calm and patient person, but I was tested at times and I appreciate it's not for everyone.
All I can say is to try and walk a mile in his moccasins, but at the same time don't beat yourself up if you can't fulfil his every wish, just do your best and maintain that sense of humour.
All the best
Fair play mojo - I take my hat off to you for doing that.
One thing though - how did it affect your family at the time?
I think you're first paragraph was spot on too. Dad just does not understand I think how busy etc people are these days. I generally phone him when I leave work on a particular day. Time differs due to how busy I am - he just does not get that sometimes I dont finish at the same time. When I end up working evenings and weekends for free he just doesnt get it!
I think the main thing that I have difficulty with Dad is that he doesn't help himself to help me. I'd do anything but its tough to do things just because he wants it that way when theres a much easier way. Also, he does tend to not take into consideration that I have other things and people I'm responsible for.
Latest is shoppping. He asked me to pop in and get some shopping. Only a few things. I really didnt have time (dunno where dear brother way!) so I said look I'll get it delivered., I was going to pay for shoppoing and delivery (Β£3!) but he just wouldnt have it. Waste of money etc.
As a suggestion for the last one, you could either do click and collect, so all you have to do is drive there, pick it up and deliveer it, so you're not actually spending time doing shopping, or alternatively, get it delivered to you.
Hi all - just remembering this thread.
We did do the boxing day thing after. Worked well. Dad even said he preferred boxing day (Arrgghh - how many years?).
To be honest, hoping to the same this year. After the other year, its just not fair on the rest of the family.
Behaviour-wise hes a lot worse as well. Hes gone even worse for subborness and general selifhsness. Yeh hes my Dad but he seems oblivious that anyone else exists apart from him.
I've tried to be nice and I've tried to explain things nicely to him. I've gone out of my way to sort things out for him but, as always, its his way or no way. If he wants something then I am expected to do it regardless of anything else I might have going on in my life.
I do "on call" with work. I've tried to explain that if I get called out then I do have to change my plans. His attitude is "well you need to tell work that you're doing something for me". Theres just no telling him.
He can't walk far now so trying to sort out a powered scooter. Can get one for Β£500. Refused. Said hes not paying out that much because he can't see why they should be any more than Β£100. As if. Bear in mind hes got about Β£40K in the bank. His answer - well you don;t mind taking me out do you? I dont but I do live 30mins drive away so not every day no!
Things is he tries it on so much and expects me to put him first before my wife and kids. No amount of telling seems to convince him that I have other things to think about. I'm trying to balance things - my wife and I have had some huge arguments about him. Thing is shes put up with so much from him theres just no need and if Im honest, shes dead right.
The worrying about everything stresses me so much its making me ill now as well. He knows the hassle he causes me but in his words - "thing is I need help and I'm sure you don't mind putting yourself out a little bit for me".
Hes weird with my kids. If I bring youngest to see him he moans. Its weird how he doesnt want to see them? When they're there he blanks them. To him, they are just an inconvenience which cause me not to devote 100% attention to him.
What do I do? Hes my Dad and I want to to right by him but it can't continue. At the moment, Im trying to convince myself I do what I can for him (and I do!)
Hi there
Glad that changing his day to Boxing Day worked well, but sorry to hear that his behaviour has deteriorated further, it's tough for you.
I think sometimes you just have to be firm and explain that a particular request isn't going to be possible, no matter how much he insists. Saying no is so hard I know, but I think you have to find some balance for yourself and your family, otherwise resentment will set in.
Its sad that it's making you ill... have you told him what is happening? Next time he says you don't mind putting yourself out, be firm and say you can't, that you are not getting any younger and have to put your own health first, otherwise you may not be able to be there for him at all.
It sounds to me that his world has contracted, he recognises that he needs you to facilitate all of his day to day needs, and as you say, your children are taking you away from him... it's almost like he's reverting to childhood himself and can't see the bigger picture.
In an ideal world, what would you like to happen? Sometimes we have to make decisions for our elderly parents in their best interests, it seems to me that youve reached this point and are going to have to take charge of the situation. It might be ultimatum time... that he accepts some home care assistance, or has to manage himself, because you can't meet his increasing needs. Explain that he is your priority but not to the detriment of your wife and kids and your own health.
Work on a visiting schedule, so that he understands he has your time on specific days, but beyond that you can't be at his beck and call.
Perhaps sign up to an alert system, a device that he can wear on his person and use if he has a fall or needs emergency assistance. Have a word with his GP and ask for an assessment of his needs, this might help to convince him that he needs home care/supplementary assistance.
Perhaps contact Age UK and ask what services are on offer in his area, they may be able to provide a Day Centre place, to get him out of the house. I used to volunteer, in my area they are picked up from home, given lunch and returned, it gets them out of the house and gives them something to look forward to.
I do hope you're able to find some solutions.
All the best
Cheers Mojo for some good advice here.
Yeh like most people I am perfectly happy to help my Dad and do what I can. He just makes it so difficult for everyone by being stubborn. If something is easier for everyone then he still won't agree if it means 5 minutes of inconvenience for him.
Spending money is a huge issue. He just will not spend any. Even though I constantly tell him he needs to make things easier for himself and he does have Β£40K after all! To be honest, he'd rather have me travel an hour to save himself a pound.
I've had some right arguments with him about his bad attitude to spending. He will point blank refuse to get a taxi even if I pay for it. He will expect me to drive 60 miles from work to pick him up though! (Im a contractor so dont get paid either!).
In his house, hes got an adapted shower, and stair lift. All of which I sorted out with a grant. He went 3 months without a bath because he couldnt get in and out of the existing bath - refused to agree to have the work done because they said he might have to pay a bit. Took months to convince him - his answer "I'll manage without it".
Same with the stair lift. Hes in a flat stairs up to living room then more stairs up to bedroom. Tried his best to not have that - just in case again. He was actually planning to go without and go up the stairs on hands and knees.
It is a constant game. He phones me, tries it on, I make some excuse. He needs something, doesn't want to spend money, I spend months talking him around.
I've told him and told him I've got other things on. Yeh we've all got our family issues but my wife is long term ill (problems with mobility), teenage son has aspergers, and we've got a 5 year old (and Im 50!). Its all go π
He knows all of this of course but he seems to relegate my issues to like the 2nd division. Its like "oh thats not so good" but anyway "what about me!".
I went nuts the other week. He changed for about 2 days then he was as bad as normal....
In all honesty, I can't have him xmas day again. He ruined it for everyone the other year. He played up and pretty much made sure everyone knew he was ill and everyone had to run around for him. I remember that year him phoning me "what time are you collecting me?" (Bear in mind, I drive 30 mins pick him up, drive back to ours, he stays a few hours then same again - all the while my kids are left without me). I told him "11am when the kids have had chance to open presents etc".
His answer "No I want you to collect me at 10am please - there'll be other xmases for you to spend with the kids". Not a lot I can say to that argument is there?
Thing is I don't think hes ever going to change. Went on holidays recently for three weeks. He had to manage and did fine (my brother was there anyway). All I had though was moaning about how I'd be away for three weeks. Then he expected me to phone him every day (I didnt!)