Cheers I must have read over that bit.
When Cafcass were involved before back in 06/07 they stressed they wer'nt social workers. So it just seemed strange to introduce themselves as a SO .
Thank again
Hi just thought i would give you an update
Last week i had a Half hour interview over the phone with Cafcass (Yes Half an Hour to the minute) during the interview i was asked my reasons for applying to the court for a variation to the existing order, I gave my reasons of wanting to simplify and extend the contact order as any attempt to do this with Mum had been ignored or dismissed. Cafcass continued they had contacted all local authorities SS, police etc and they had no concerns for our daughter in fact after reading the original Section 7 report they couldnt understand why they were involved in the first place!! (ERM HELLO because of the mother STOPPING CONTACT and making FALSE ACCUSATIONS!!) They can see our daughter has a fantastic loving relatioship with both parents and is a well balanced child. (Yes we know its mum who stands in the way :whistle: )
They said they had already spoke to Mum (What! I thought they would have spoke to me first? Anyway) Mum was quoted as saying " I would never stand in the the way of contact between ******* and her Dad in fact i positively encourage It" (Our daughter does'nt need encouragement, she needs her Mum to stop using her as a weapon) Whether Cafcass bought this line im not sure but i continued to read them Mums response through her solicitor to the offer of mediation last year and gave an example of obstructive behaviour. (Cafcass made no comment)
I was asked about any proposals i had to put forward, so i went through them one by one explaining the current orders short falls (my ealier post give examples of the order in place at the moment) and giving them examples of simplifying it and at the same time extending contact.
At this point cafcass jumped in and asked specifically why i was asking for a 3rd week during the school summer holidays "wasn't i satisfied with the 2 weeks i already had along with midweek and weekend contact?".
(What midweek and weekend contact!!!!!????????????????)
I then explained in 5 years we hadnt been allowed any extra contact over any of the school holidays. That Mum and her solicitor had written to me (after the final hearing) stating school holidays cancelled out normal contact and only the stated hoilday time contact would take place as it was MUMS TIME, surely i understood thats how the order reads!!!!
No, my belief along with my solicitor at that time, saw it as Holidays being in ADDITION to the first part of the order which was for Midweek and Weekend contact, put in place back in January 07, then after the section 7 report the order being finalised in November 07 was to ADD the school holiday contact dates, as the final order reads" IN ADDITION" the following hoidays will take place.
Cafcass were suprised at this so i asked if they thought it was right?
(This is just another reason why i thought the order needs varing because one parent interprets it in their best interests over the other.)
At this point Cafcass back tracked and said "well we cant possibly comment because we are not a judge or a panel!"
Next they asked would i be willing to go on a PARENTING COURSE. Not because we think that you arn't good parents, no its because there is conflict between MUM and DAD and you need to know how to diffuse it so it doesnt affect the child involved . I had no problem with this so agreed to go.
They then asked if i thought there was Conflict between Mum and Dad?!?!?(Did'nt you just tell me there was?)
Yes there is i said but only over contact. (Hhhmmmm Im getting deja vu is the ex suggesting Bulling Intimadation Harassment etc etc, why do some Mums always resort to rolling this old chestnut out?!)
I went on to say in the past 18 months i had only spoke to Mum Twice over the phone about contact and it only resulted in me being verbally abused and slagged off so as in all other instances of contact between us i use either letters email or txt to Mum or her solicitor as then i can not be accused of anything and i did point out even though we only live 10 minutes away from each other our paths have never crossed in over 5 years so I pointed out conflict was more of a difference of opinion than anything else.
Then came the offer of Mediation, again i agreed to this as i had already explained it would have been my first choice anyway.
Hoepfully they added, by going to mediation and parenting class it will avoid having to go to a final hearing to sort this out. (What! you must be kidding the Ex won't be told what to do by anyone she has to be in control thats the whole point) Anyway they said they would forward us both a copy of the statement along with their recommendation to the court and they would meet us in court on wednesday. (ps i havent received mine yet do you think i should conact them for my copy as im in court wednesday?)
Thats where we are at the moment, hoping common sense prevails on wednesday and my daughter and i can resume a normal relaxed more natural relationship without needless pedantic measures.
Im self representing and have got everthing together as much as i can, im not really looking forward to the whole experience again seem to have spent a life time trying to get some normality for us all and keeping diaries letters txt emails for evidence is life sapping!!!
.
Just like to add a THANK YOU to Yoji and actd your suggestions for simplification and points to put in my statement make it really easy to follow and THANKS to the guys at CLC who i rang the other week and ran my proposal and statement past, you gave me a real positive response.
Ok i have gone on long enough but will let you know how it goes over the next few days
:woohoo:
Hi DAG,
Very well done so far sir! 🙂
CAFCASS won't be able to comment, they're impartial (to some extents).
Regarding the statement, if you mean this Wednesday, you need to get onto the Court for CAFCASS's number and request a copy to be faxed over to you [somehow] or for the Court to prepare a copy of their Report that you can collect.
You do need to know the "Mothers Position" part of that report. You will then know her objections and or "limits" so to speak and prepare possible arguments against should they arise.
Oh and just one more thing... PIPS is in my opinion only suitable for Parents who have never been involved in their childs life, or who are a parent returning after a long absence from parenting. But thats just my two cents.
Evening Yoji
Thankyou for your reply I can see you are busy.
I have the name of the Cafcass worker doing the report and their number should I contact them directly for a copy or should I just contact the court?
And yes its this Wednesday. I expected the report before now.
As regards the PIPs my feelings are the same as yours, but I agreed to the suggestion as it may display to the court that I am reasonable.
When I told my daughter what I may have to do I had to pick her up off the floor she was in fits of laughter.
She's 12 and she said Ive looked after her since before she was born .
It's a bit late for me to learn how to be a parent now if I haven't learnt already 😀
I can't argue with that!
Hello Dads
Sorry not had time to give you an up date about court proceedings before but here goes.
(This is the Short Edition :unsure: )
I represented myself which was daunting but i would definately recommend it if you feel you can remain calm, collected and not come across as attacking or confrontational.
Have everything you want to say prepared and documented in duplicate as then all parties can have copies of statements/proposals/evidence etc (I had 1 Cafcass 3 Magistrates 1 Court Legal Advisor and the other parties).
I took along a colleauge whom upon my request came in to the hearing under Mackenzie law as a second pair of ears and to give me moral support. Dont be affraid to ask the Court Legal Advisor at any point if you are unsure of any of the proceedings and need a little light shedding on any matters during or after the hearing (As some times it may seem overwhelming) the CLA were very helpfull throughout.
And definitely the guide on here to representing yourself in court and all the advice the guys on here can give you goes along way to helping you, in hindsight i wish i had found this site years ago represented myself back then and saved myself thousands!!! :woohoo: Thankyou everyone so far for your advice i will however be back for more in the near future.
Ok, on the morning of the direction hearing i received a letter from ex solicitor saying they had not been served the application/statement for the hearing and they felt the proceedings were totally unfounded and due to this they would be seeking to claim back all costs from me if i did not withdraw the application immeadiately!!!
When i got to court i met with the cafcass officer their report didnt contain any of the points i raised regarding my requests for more contact, issues with contact and the complexity of the order. It read like a text book report (Mum happy, Child Happy at school, Dad and Child have loving relationship) They asked if i had anything to add, so i gave them a copy of my proposal and breakdown for simplfying and varing the order they took this through to the other parties and came back 5 minutes later with these encouraging words "You are not going to get anywhere today or any day for that matter with your Ex-wife,well she will not move on anything you have put down here she says you see enough of your daughter! Im sorry!" (What?!!! Yes thats how the CO left it on those words they got up shoke my hand and left)
So when asked in court Cafcass said they saw no need for themselves to be involved any further! (What a waste of time and effort i at least expected them to try to meadiate on the day not just hold their hands up and shrug their shoulders)
Saying that when it got rolling having 3 Magistrates and a CLA taking it a all in was a bonus (all other proccedings over the years have been just before one judge in the local county court).
The Exs solicitor firstly claimed their client had not and had never been served with a copy of the Application and they didnt understand why they were there, the first time they knew anything re: an application being made was when cafcass contacted their client, this was such a shock to her as everthing seemed to be working just fine!!
The CLA pointed out immediately, a copy of the application had been posted directly to the ex by the court on so-n-so date and for her Not to have received it it was highly unlikely!!!!! :}
This more or less set out the path the ex was taking, they at first said they were happy with how the contact order was at present, then low and behold they said they wanted the order changing because they thought the present order was to generous and their client felt contact should be reduced!!! (I just pointed to the letter they sent the previous year stating their client was" Happy and Content with contact and saw no need to discuss the matter further"! Ahhhhhh :whistle: )
I gave my statement and defence as to why i had applied for a variation of the order, handed over my proposal of simplyfying and extending contact and a breakdown of the extra contact i was seeking, they suggested an adjurnment of half an hour to give them time to look over the current contact order and proposals i had given. (The ex and her solicitor were Not 🙂 at this.)
After we came back the Magistrates all agreed the order was out of date, needed simplfying and as our daughter was much older the order needed addressing as to her needs now. They couldnt see any reason why the other side had not after 6 years come to a more natural way of dealing and extending contact therefore if they couldnt agree today to the proposed changes it would have to go further. They recommended meadiation i agreed as i had stated this was what i would have prefered rather than coming back to court, the ex just kept reffusing so they gave up on that, then they asked if i was prepared to go on a PIPs course, i replied yes, the ex even reffused this suggestion, until that is the Magistrates Ordered her to attend!!!! They suggested
co-operation would be much easier. (oops!)
So the out come so far, we both have to attend a PIPs course before -/-/- date. The other side have to submit a Statement to the Court in reply to my proposals by -/-/- date and we will be back in court on -/-/- to see if they are willing to move nearer to any agreement.
IF NOT it will go to a Final Hearing and they will make the Final decision as they believe the current contact order is to complicated and out of date!!!!! ((Yipeee im not going mad :silly: )
All in all it was a good result, it would have been nice to get an agreement on the day, but the court actually got to see what i have been up against all these years and how unreasonable the other side have been and they agree change is needed and if i cant be attained by agreement then they will step in.
I now dont feel like im going mad and what im requesting is not unreasonable but normal.
Ps as i was leaving the CLA stopped me and commended me on how i came across to the court and how it would be so much easier if parents could speak for themselves as i had done, instead of legal representatives , they could sense how much i loved our daughter. ( as you can imagine when i got to a safe distance i burst in to tears) :whistle: Emotional rollercoaster :woohoo:
So for now just preparing as best i can for the next stage and will let you know how i get on.
Thank you
Well done DAG!
Whilst it would have been nice to have the situation resolved in that one hearing, it does appear that the court now has a fair idea of what you've been up against and, sooner or later, this will be resolved to your satisfaction. Your ex sounds like the type of person who will drag this out as long as she can, but if you can get her to mediation and have her come to an agreement on your proposal, make sure that the details of this agreement go back to court to be enshrined within a new contact order 😉
Maybe it's just me, but - having read your posts and those of a few other dads recently - I'm becoming quite concerned at the dimissive and/or apathetic attitude of a growing number of CAFCASS officers. I'm all for transparency and impartiality, but some officers seem to be working to personal agendas and are, for the want of a better word, biased... 😡
FM '70
An excellent day in court.
I agree with FM - a few years ago, my dealings with cafcass were nothing but positive, but more abd more, there seem to be stories of unsatisfactory handling of cases.
Hi DAG,
Thats fabulous :-).
As FM states, make sure any agreement in mediation is put into a legally binding order, and equally, if you do go to mediation, make them aware of that too.
Everything sounds really positive though 🙂
Afternoon Dads
Thanks for your comments, yes I definitely feel more confident about getting things sorted this time round just hearing the magistrates say change was needed after all this time was encouraging.
As for mediation, there is going to be none at all as the exs solicitor repeatedly refused so it will be sorted in court one way or other.
My daughters having a bit of a hard time at moment just having her ear bent being made to feel disloyal but she said she will be ok.
Oh and after 7 years of paying ex maintenance direct to her she's got CSA involved now so I'm waiting outcome of that. (apparently she wants more money)
Happy Days 😉
Well, you can work out what they would expect you to pay. I'd stop paying her anything now as the csa will calculate from the day they became involved and you'd have to prove what you're paying now should be taken into account - put the money into a separate account.
Evening actd
CSA rang me as ex wants a review, so they did a calculation over the phone after I gave them the particulars they required and it seems I may be paying to much. I did tell them I had already calculated the amount I should be paying using the tools they provided online, and I had all bank statements proving every payment over the past 6 years.
They said all they wanted was for me to send in my last two payslips for Feb n March to verify my earnings and if I wished after their final calculation I can then use them to pay the ex and as and when I get the extra contact I can incorporate that and get a further reduction in payments.
Not sure on what course to take as I have never considered using CSA before
What are the pros n cons?
They are writing to me to let me know the exact amount I should be paying I said for now I'm happy paying what I do for now but will consider my options after I see it in black and white.